J. Allen Hynek UFology giant or just Government agent

a reply to: Willtell

Herstory Channel™ is also running the series "Project Blue Book"

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

a reply to: Erno86

wow, just wow, so your argument angaist the bulletproof IDH is that a crappy picture you took years ago that shows just rocks, has aliens in it?
big wonder hynek and vallee din't care!

a reply to: Willtell

your theory about what type of people in our government then, sure sounds a LOT like now too me thinks.

originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck
a reply to: Willtell
I wrote Hynek off decades ago as a mere agent of government disambulation and deflection. Was I wrong?

Perhaps not 'wrong' and more like rendering a complex individual in simple terms? He started off as 'a mere agent' so that part is right. After Blue Book I think he charted a trajectory of bemusement and frustration in the face of something he could never explain to his own satisfaction. He was intellectually thwarted until he eventually ventured out into increasingly esoteric waters.

Towards the end of his life he'd shifted into ideas that his own vocabulary and the terminologies of science couldn't really practically express. There was some French interview where he resorted to the term 'metaterrestrials' which came on the back of several other interviews speculating about 'parallel realities.'

In essence, Hynek was amongst the first to walk that now familiar path from simple explanations to something altogether more concerned with the nature of reality. We'll never know for sure, but in my opinion his changing interpretations showed natural evolutions of thought. They seem to reflect an almost existential crisis as he realised he couldn't balance the equation between reports, experiences and the Laws of Physics. To me, that wasn't the behaviour of a man following a script; it was more like the actions of a man who'd lost his bearings.

originally posted by: Kandinsky

originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck
a reply to: Willtell
I wrote Hynek off decades ago as a mere agent of government disambulation and deflection. Was I wrong?

Perhaps not 'wrong' and more like rendering a complex individual in simple terms? He started off as 'a mere agent' so that part is right. After Blue Book I think he charted a trajectory of bemusement and frustration in the face of something he could never explain to his own satisfaction. He was intellectually thwarted until he eventually ventured out into increasingly esoteric waters.

Towards the end of his life he'd shifted into ideas that his own vocabulary and the terminologies of science couldn't really practically express. There was some French interview where he resorted to the term 'metaterrestrials' which came on the back of several other interviews speculating about 'parallel realities.'

In essence, Hynek was amongst the first to walk that now familiar path from simple explanations to something altogether more concerned with the nature of reality. We'll never know for sure, but in my opinion his changing interpretations showed natural evolutions of thought. They seem to reflect an almost existential crisis as he realised he couldn't balance the equation between reports, experiences and the Laws of Physics. To me, that wasn't the behaviour of a man following a script; it was more like the actions of a man who'd lost his bearings.

I can agree that I never really thought of him as a 3-dimensional character. Personally, I am bumbling towards a 'Unified Weirdness Theory' (©) that takes into account everything from fairies to spontaneous human combustion to UFOs, and is probably related to quantum physics. You appear to be placing Hynek as an observer within such a paradigm.

originally posted by: mirageman
a reply to: Erno86

Here's the picture which can be viewed in larger form by right clicking on a PC (holding down on the image usually works mobile devices).

This seems to be a case of pareidolia. Perhaps multiple cases.

I've numbered the possible candidates.

1. Real bird

2. Rock looks remotely like a rabbit

3. Illusion of Ghostbusters type phantom caused by light

4. Rock looks like facemask

5. Rock appears like Darth Vader helmet

6. Small child wearing Russian Ushanka hat pulling tongues.

I really fail to see how Dr. Hynek missed them all.

Edit: The original photos all seem to be here : www.imgur.com...

Contrary to what Hynek did...you followed the rabbit down the rabbit hole, but I'm concerned that you did not go far enough in the assessment of my purported space alien photograph, that has many other geoglyph/pictoglyph ET alien carvings; in addition to the actual ET alien entity itself.

a reply to: JohnnyCanuck

Personally, I am bumbling towards a 'Unified Weirdness Theory' (©) that takes into account everything from fairies to spontaneous human combustion to UFOs, and is probably related to quantum physics.

It's like a singularity, isn't it? People start off with rational ideas like spaceships and biological visitors. Then they tag on the the motivations like safaris, science trips and stuff like evil exploitation or righteous soul saviours. Hug an alien today!

Most who get to there find that no specific explanation suffices and the intrepid jump off the ledge into ambiguity and maybes. Reality, physics and consciousness hove into view and that's the point when we either give up or form a 'unified weirdness theory. I've got my own 'UWT' which is too much to ever own up to even though I favour prosaic explanations most of the time.

Old Man Hynek was one of the first to get there imo.

Dr. Hynek Tells The Truth About The UFO Blue Book Project

Even though he concocted the famous swamp gas lie...Hynek exposes CIA, Airforce, and Robertson panel cover-ups

originally posted by: Kandinsky

originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck
a reply to: Willtell
I wrote Hynek off decades ago as a mere agent of government disambulation and deflection. Was I wrong?

Perhaps not 'wrong' and more like rendering a complex individual in simple terms? He started off as 'a mere agent' so that part is right. After Blue Book I think he charted a trajectory of bemusement and frustration in the face of something he could never explain to his own satisfaction. He was intellectually thwarted until he eventually ventured out into increasingly esoteric waters.

Towards the end of his life he'd shifted into ideas that his own vocabulary and the terminologies of science couldn't really practically express. There was some French interview where he resorted to the term 'metaterrestrials' which came on the back of several other interviews speculating about 'parallel realities.'

In essence, Hynek was amongst the first to walk that now familiar path from simple explanations to something altogether more concerned with the nature of reality. We'll never know for sure, but in my opinion his changing interpretations showed natural evolutions of thought. They seem to reflect an almost existential crisis as he realised he couldn't balance the equation between reports, experiences and the Laws of Physics. To me, that wasn't the behaviour of a man following a script; it was more like the actions of a man who'd lost his bearings.

I appreciate your analysis.


Hynek...yeah, a man who realized he was out of his depth.
He went down the John Keel road since he was dazzled by the UFO phenomenon.
Unlike the US IC trained robots, he still has a slight independent brain and therefore maintained enough objectivity to perceive that this phenomenon is out of our depth of understanding. He could only apply the present science of physics to it, the only thing he knew, similar to John Keel’s ideas in the Eight Tower.


Both men were IC connected and minor students of the occult

a reply to: Willtell

Another good one - 'The Tomorrow Show' with Tom Snyder:

a reply to: Willtell

Thanks.

He could only apply the present science of physics to it, the only thing he knew, similar to John Keel’s ideas in the Eight Tower.

Your point there is a mainstay in how I interpret the sociology of ufology.

Most people interpret the whole thing through their own backgrounds and beliefs. Hynek and other peers knew physics so they tried to apply physics in search of an explanation. Vallee has used information technology because he's a computer scientist. Rural Christians liked the idea of Space Brothers and the more Evangelical and Baptist guys go in for the demons. Government plots and conspiracy explanations like Project Blue Beam tend to be a reflection of the person's beliefs rather than objective analysis.

Hynek couldn't get there with the physics he knew and had to bolt on 'parallel dimensions' and reluctant notions of parallel Earths. He was out of the frying pan and into the fire as far as his academic training was concerned and I bet he knew it. No doubt he got to such a point in as rational a way as possible, but he would have known he was 'out of his depth' like you say and a soft target for critics.

originally posted by: Kandinsky
Most people interpret the whole thing through their own backgrounds and beliefs.

I've been known to opine that spirituality takes the form that one gives it. Here's another context for fluid weirdness. Hmmm...

originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck

originally posted by: Kandinsky
Most people interpret the whole thing through their own backgrounds and beliefs.

I've been known to opine that spirituality takes the form that one gives it. Here's another context for fluid weirdness. Hmmm...

I thought you might like that idea.

It poses an interesting conundrum in the sense one can't see the wood for the trees. Or to put it another way, we're stuck in our own hall of mirrors and keep seeing our own reflections even when we think we're objective. Bummer, eh?

Your analysis, again, is exceptionally keen.

Arriving at objectivity in itself is half the way there; it allows one to see truth as it really is.

I guess faith is, in the end, a hope that whatever the truth is we can handle it; or it will be good for us.

a reply to: Willtell

Arriving at objectivity in itself is half the way there; it allows one to see truth as it really is.

I guess faith is, in the end, a hope that whatever the truth is we can handle it; or it will be good for us.

Well put

Both Hynek and Vallee were both led astray by proposing this demonology crap, that Vallee continues to spew out.

They say an encounter with a ufonaut would be akin to looking like magic...but it all has a rational scientific explanation, as to explain how they (sentient ET entities) perform using smoke an mirror tactics --- With laser holography projections as the utmost form of communication tools that they possibly use.



Erno

a reply to: Erno86

They say an encounter with a ufonaut would be akin to looking like magic.

There is that, yes. If there's something on the Type II/III civilisation scale, we'd only know it was there if they wanted us to know.

Plus there's the reason for Hynek drifting to his 'metaterrestrial' supposition in the first place. He'd spent 30 years interviewing people who said they'd seen physical objects and humanoid beings. Far too much traffic in our atmosphere to be explained by visitors coming from outer space. So he had to begin to think of where else the stimuli for reports could come from? Right here.

As we speed into our own AI/transhuman futures we'll see more and more consideration about sentient AI as a factor in UFO reports. They'd look like magic.