Sex Cults, the Chocolate Factory, and.. Racism? An R Kelly Drama.

This thread is in reaction to the Lifetime Docuseries "Surviving R Kelly"; for those of you who haven't seen it, it's worth the watch (although an easy 6hr+ investment).

The Sex Cult
In the briefest synopsis I can muster, here's what essentially went down.

Several reports from underage black girls accuse R Kelly of luring them into his residence. While there he allegedly systematically "brainwashes" them into complying with his demands which include:

-Performing very graphic sexual favors and being filmed doing so
-Moving into his residence or studio (often requiring them to leave the state and be isolated from family)
-Ex-communicating everyone in their lives, including the other girls
-Asking permission for basic tasks like using the washroom, eating, and speaking
-Not looking at other men, or talking to other men

A list of some of the more major allegations can be found HERE

The particular instance of his first media "blowup" in 2007 happened when one girl who was 16 was coerced into a threesome with Kelly and another female who he claimed was also 16, and the sexual encounter was taped. After later finding out that the girl was in fact 14, the 16-yo girl finds the tape and takes it. Looking at the tape, there is extra footage showing R Kelly taking the 14-yo girl into the bathroom and urinating on her among other things.

The lawsuit ensued, and, since no date was indicated by the video footage (ruling out the option to press charges for statutory rape, which requires a date of the altercation), charges were pressed for child pornography. During the case, the father of the 14-yo, and the girl herself, both deny that she is the one in the tape. Since the female in the tape cannot be definitely determined to indicate her age, Kelly is acquitted.

From here, things only get worse. Many women begin coming forward with matching claims that Kelly was essentially running a "Sex Cult", where women would be locked away with an extensive set of rules -- locked in hotel rooms with no interaction with the outside world, many of which were taken at very young ages and essentially enslaved into a mentality that they cannot leave amidst the threat of Kelly and his posse harming them and/or their family members. The allegations travel well into the new year, indicating nearly two decades of this kind of abuse from Kelly and his employees, with one mother actually flying to LA to retrieve her daughter in late 2018.

Alleged Racism

Here's the disconnect for me in the whole kerfuffle.

Many commentators on the issue cry foul that racism is involved in the rulings and handling of the situation by the law. with citation to the verdict on the Bill Cosby case (which involved almost exclusively white women), I can sort of see where this comes from, but I think the idea exists on a very weak foundation.

Essentially, the idea is that if these were a bunch of white girls rather than black girls, he would have been convicted. Laughable to me to be honest; a black man systematically capturing and creating sex slaves of black women is "white racists'" fault -- seems like quite a stretch of the biased imagination.

Anyone remember these?


Oj Simpson Trial


Brendan Dassey Trials

I honestly think that these need to be taken case-by-case, and details examined for anyone who thinks that R Kelly walking has anything to do with racism. Kelly was acquitted because none of the victims pressed charges, and the girl alleged in the video and her family denied that it was her at all. Kelly Settled many of his charges out of court with his accusers, I find this to be something of an indicating difference between Kelly, OJ, Dassey and Cosby. Kelly stood accused at the height of his career, he had a ton of money to throw around and he just threw it at all of his problems. OJ was a very similar story -- also at the height of incredible wealth from his football career. Cosby and Dassey, however, were nowhere near that scenario. I do find it odd that the law allows these payout settlements for sexual felonies, considering you're essentially paying to have sex with a minor, but this apparently the law.

Overall I think that in light of all of these high-profile cases, people need some waking up in terms of how the justice system really works, and it really works against poor people and wants to take your money if you have it. R Kelly floated around on bail pushing his court dates back for 6 years while he settled out of court with his accusers, which is an extremely expensive process that nobody who isn't completely loaded with cash could pull off. In the other cases we see with poorer people, legal counsel is weaker, the timeline to process them is shortened, and convictions become more common.

I am definitely curious as to whatever reasoning anyone can really establish about indicated racism in the whole fiasco.

a reply to: DeadFoot

I think racism is involved because he is black and no further.

While innocent until proven guilty, I am of the opinion that he remains innocent because of his wealth. If this happened to the average Joe, they would be have been in jail for years now.

I actually have the unique perspective of "knowing" R.Kelly. He worked out at the gym I worked at for years. I was a supervisor and had several interactions with him. One of my employees went to a party at his house. She had to sign a waiver before she entered state that her ID is accurate and she is at least 18 years of age. This was several years after the 14 y/o urination incident. He was constantly hitting on the employees and bringing young guests to the club. The documentary does not surprise me at all.

Huge fan of R Kelly's music... He is the King of R&B. Unfortunately, like many artists, he has some skeletons in his closet and it is pretty clear he has a thing for teenage girls. If he were any other mope, he would have been found guilty. No racism in this case, but definitely some classism as we all know the justice system favors those with money.

With that said, it is pretty clear the girls weren't exactly "innocent". A lot of "fast" girls as my grandma used to say. We all know those chicks who were 14 and 15 in high school dating older guys who had long graduated. This type of stuff is very common in the hood. It is also clear the parents of these kids basically sold them for the money and fame.

R Kelly isn't he first, but he is the first I think to get exposed in the age of social media. Remember Jerry Lee Lewis dating young girl.... Didn't Elvis meet Priscilla when she was like 14 or something? Granted different time, but you get my point.

R Kelly's behavior also isn't uncommon. All one has to do is look at porn and the numerous dad / baby sitter and barely legal teen fantasies.

Pay to play

a reply to: DeadFoot

Yep, it is all about money.
Michael Jackson is another example.

originally posted by: headorheart
a reply to: DeadFoot

I think racism is involved because he is black and no further.

Pretty much my feelings. If racism is involved it seems like more of a racial bias from these girls' own peers, as most of his defenders were in fact young black girls.

There's something of a sensation around any black male who "made it" and there seems to be some inherit impulse to protect his reputation despite all of the evidence against him. Same thing happened with OJ Simpson, as I see it.

originally posted by: butcherguy
a reply to: DeadFoot

Yep, it is all about money.
Michael Jackson is another example.

There's actually a docuseries about MJ coming out in the near future that I'm interested in seeing.

Very similar to the Kelly case in that it involves paedophelia and that the general population knows very very little about the details of the cases, despite the base allegations being very much common knowledge.

What are children aged 14 and 16 doing alone in R. Kellys hotel room, house, studio etc.!?
It's not just that.
What kind of parents sent their children to Neverland so they could have a PJ party with a 40 year old man?!
Some people are not fit to be parents, it really breaks my heart. I really feel sorry for these children. Every sane parent knows what I'm talking about.

a reply to: ErrorErrorError

It blows my mind that so many parents, despite all the news in the past several decades, can be so trusting.

Predatory people will sniff out the vulnerable.

The most common thing that a parent whose child has been a victim of sexual abuse seems to cite is the attackers "charisma".

Don't be charmed by the snakes.

a reply to: DeadFoot

I've seen many in the black community using the examples of Harvey Weinstein, Kevin Spacey, C.K. Louis, etc are all white and are free, while Cosby and R. Kelly are being crucified by the media (and Cosby is locked up). However I would say that the media does not seem to be pulling punches on those 3 white guys... but good luck trying to argue that point

originally posted by: ErrorErrorError
What are children aged 14 and 16 doing alone in R. Kellys hotel room, house, studio etc.!?
It's not just that.
What kind of parents sent their children to Neverland so they could have a PJ party with a 40 year old man?!
Some people are not fit to be parents, it really breaks my heart. I really feel sorry for these children. Every sane parent knows what I'm talking about.

Neverland - do not get me started. That was 100% parents wanting to feel special because they were close to Michael Jackson. It got their kids molested in the mean time.

I cut the parents slightly more slack in the R.Kelly issues only because I lied to my parents at 16, maybe even 14. Don't get me wrong, I was not getting peed on in hotel rooms, but I maybe wasn't at the mall like I said. It was not right, but at a certain age parents can't make every decision for their child. Now, if I saw my child on a tape, I would be full steam ahead to make R.Kelly pay and I don't mean financially.

a reply to: FamCore

I have seen many African American comedians rip on R Kelly, this is from many years ago and yet the stories are still around and recently his own daughter denounced him as a monster

warning language





Is it correct to suggest there must have been some truth in the allegations as this show was only aired I imagine after informing there own legal team, I have not heard of a claim of slander/libel against DC from RK

originally posted by: FamCore
a reply to: DeadFoot

I've seen many in the black community using the examples of Harvey Weinstein, Kevin Spacey, C.K. Louis, etc are all white and are free, while Cosby and R. Kelly are being crucified by the media (and Cosby is locked up). However I would say that the media does not seem to be pulling punches on those 3 white guys... but good luck trying to argue that point

Black community in general has a culture of hero worship. We tend to put celebs / leaders on pedestals and will turn a blind eye to their transgressions. Even in the face of irrefutable facts, we will often assume some racial conspiracy. A lot of it is driven from the history of racism in this country (which we are not far removed from).

originally posted by: Edumakated

Even in the face of irrefutable facts, we will often assume some racial conspiracy.

I think that's exactly what's going on to the point of racism in the RK situation.

What I wonder is, if he was convicted, if we would've been racist for convicting a black guy when [insert white persons acquittal here] happened, whereas now we are racist because the black girls in the story got not justice. Would it be racism either way?

Last I heard he had like 6 women living with him in the such weird cultish relationship described above.

Before that he peed on some girl.


Why isn't this asshole behind bars or pushing daisies is beyond me.

Racism?

That card has been played out for 20 yrs now

a reply to: Edumakated

Black community in general has a culture of hero worship. We tend to put celebs / leaders on pedestals and will turn a blind eye to their transgressions. Even in the face of irrefutable facts, we will often assume some racial conspiracy. A lot of it is driven from the history of racism in this country (which we are not far removed from).

This came up because of the topic of the OP - sadly I see similar types of posts (from the same actors online) where they praise Fredrick Young, who murdered 2 white teens execution style and in court he apologized to the families of Aiyana Jones, Michael Brown and Eric Gardner rather than the families of the victims. Everyone comments about "how do I send him a care package?" and other support and idolizing.

At the same time, I see posts about MLK and other amazing figures who would most definitely be cringing if they witnessed this type of thing. Jokes about "wypipo" (white people) is another common theme.

I am positive there are the same types of accounts and conversations going on with other demographics targeting other races, but I am a die-hard rap fan and so I'm exposed to different posts that I otherwise wouldn't even see.

Just thought it was interesting to see how out-in-the-open it can be. I am not black and wouldn't even think to argue or even participate in the types of posts/discussions I mentioned above, but if I did I'm sure I would immediately be the "enemy", and without even being involved (other than passively witnessing it), I feel like the enemy even though I want nothing more than to be connected and see everyone prosper and take care of each other. It's frustrating and saddening. Our society is so divided and there is a lot of pain and hate bubbling under (and above) the surface

originally posted by: FamCore
a reply to: Edumakated

I am not black and wouldn't even think to argue or even participate in the types of posts/discussions I mentioned above, but if I did I'm sure I would immediately be the "enemy"

Oh if I posted this on Reddit or Twitter I'm sure there'd be protesters on my lawn right now.

Forget colour of perp as evil does not know any boudaries, there are I imagine many a Brock Turner for every R Kelly, how the hell he only got 6 months is another travesty of justice though.

Turner was indicted on January 28, 2015, on five charges: two for rape, two for felony sexual assault, and one for attempted rape.[8] He was arraigned on February 2, 2015, pleading not guilty on all five charges

Turner being convicted of the three remaining charges of felony sexual assault.[11][12] The convictions carried a potential sentence of 14 years in prison. Prosecutors recommended six years in prison while probation officials recommended a "moderate" county jail sentence.[13] On June 2, 2016, Santa Clara County Superior Court Judge Aaron Persky sentenced Turner to six months'

Playing devils advocate would an African American recieve such preferential treatment? or is it his ability to float in water quickly what saved him, got to keep those skills out of prison, they are useful to the wider public

So this scum was convicted of 3 offences and initially pleaded not guilty, scum is scum and should be treated as such, once found guilty a mandatory sentence should apply including a complete labotomy.

So with R Kelly still free (innocent until guilty/charges filed) and this swimmer getting 6 months, surely we need harsher sentences across the board.

originally posted by: DeadFoot

originally posted by: Edumakated

Even in the face of irrefutable facts, we will often assume some racial conspiracy.

I think that's exactly what's going on to the point of racism in the RK situation.

What I wonder is, if he was convicted, if we would've been racist for convicting a black guy when [insert white persons acquittal here] happened, whereas now we are racist because the black girls in the story got not justice. Would it be racism either way?

It is going to be racism either way.... if he is convicted it is racism. If he isn't convicted, but there is a documentary, it is still racism for exposing him. The only non-racist thing is sweeping it under the rug.

With that said, there has been some outrage against him in the black community recently, but I think it is mainly because he is getting more mainstream exposure and people are embarrassed to be associated with him. Some of the people speaking out had no problems hanging around him even after the allegations and rumors. It is just like all these chicks in hollywood who were hugging all up on Harvey Weinstein and all of a sudden they are victims.

A lot of it is just people being hypocrites.

originally posted by: FamCore
a reply to: Edumakated

Black community in general has a culture of hero worship. We tend to put celebs / leaders on pedestals and will turn a blind eye to their transgressions. Even in the face of irrefutable facts, we will often assume some racial conspiracy. A lot of it is driven from the history of racism in this country (which we are not far removed from).

This came up because of the topic of the OP - sadly I see similar types of posts (from the same actors online) where they praise Fredrick Young, who murdered 2 white teens execution style and in court he apologized to the families of Aiyana Jones, Michael Brown and Eric Gardner rather than the families of the victims. Everyone comments about "how do I send him a care package?" and other support and idolizing.

At the same time, I see posts about MLK and other amazing figures who would most definitely be cringing if they witnessed this type of thing. Jokes about "wypipo" (white people) is another common theme.

I am positive there are the same types of accounts and conversations going on with other demographics targeting other races, but I am a die-hard rap fan and so I'm exposed to different posts that I otherwise wouldn't even see.

Just thought it was interesting to see how out-in-the-open it can be. I am not black and wouldn't even think to argue or even participate in the types of posts/discussions I mentioned above, but if I did I'm sure I would immediately be the "enemy", and without even being involved (other than passively witnessing it), I feel like the enemy even though I want nothing more than to be connected and see everyone prosper and take care of each other. It's frustrating and saddening. Our society is so divided and there is a lot of pain and hate bubbling under (and above) the surface

The "conscious" and "woke" folks are useful idiots. I've just learned to ignore them over the years.