#TheBestMenCanBe #Gillette

I cringed so hard watching that.

As with almost anything SJW related.

"look at me, I'm so hip and I'm so 2019 and beyond!"

Oh, c'mon guys, the psychologists are out with it. If you are a man in the traditional sense, you are mentally ill. You just need to be a woman with a penis now in order to be sane.

This is more toxic crap that helps no one.

This is sending a bad message. If it's a bad thing for little kids of color to never see a person of color in the media they consume, what message does it send when every teacher you interact with expects every little boy to basically act like a little girl and to see constant messages in media about how being a little boy is bad and wrong?

I'm not talking about bullying, I'm just talking about being a boy in general - more active, more physical, more outgoing. These are not bad traits, but they do have to be worked with and guided, not squashed. Too many boys being raised without fathers or strong male role models and instead of being guided in how to handle themselves, they get sat on until they explode because they get constantly told they're bad for being what they are.

a reply to: Bluntone22

What are you missing? Hmmm, let's see. As a white male I can point out a few issues I have with this commercial. Why is it implying that bullying is a male only issue?

It's not implying that bullying is a male only issue. It focused on various forms of male bullying, or "toxic masculinity," but at no time did it suggest or indicate that only males bully. (And believe me, women and girls are well aware that other women and girls bully! We don't need a commercial to tell us...)

Would you be okay with a commercial that focused on both male and female bullying in all its forms? Would you be just as outraged for women if they had done a similar "Venus" razor commercial that focused only on how women bully? Or will you be less outraged if they soon produce a female bullying version?

Why were there no women in the commercial?

There were women in the commercial... do you mean women as bullies?

They do shave legs and pits.

Of course, as I have already noted. And you already know that I suggested there should be one for "mean girls" too.

Why does it only point out male sexual harassment?

Because the commercial was about toxic masculinity not femininity. And because -- as we both know -- male sexual harassment exists.

Why did it have to be a woman comforting the bullied boy?

There was also a man comforting a bullied boy, so it wasn't only showing women as comforters. But I don't understand why that's offensive for you. Though I can also see that since it was ostensibly encouraging best behavior by men, it would also have been more powerful to focus on men comforting the boy. Although I'm not even sure comforting is the best word or way to handle it.

But that comes back to my basic feeling that we shouldn't coddle the bullied, but empower them. And for boys, while women serve a valuable purpose, I do think men would be the best role model in learning how to handle bullying.

And since I have a teenage daughter, why the hell do they suggest that she is so damn weak that men need to protect her?

Well, on the most obviously level, because men have an upper body brute strength that the vast majority of women do not have, therefore women are at an overwhelming disadvantage. At another level, it's not so much that your daughter needs to be protected, as it is that she should not be put in that position to begin with. And that begins with the man. So the idea is more for "good" men to address the bad behavior of "bad" men so no girl has to protect herself.

However, again, I'm a big believer in empowering people against would-be bullies, because the world will never be rid of bullies. So just as my dad taught me self-defense moves, I would hope that you are teaching your daughter the same, and I would like to see all kids taught basic self-defense AND confidence, so that bullies do not have such power over anyone -- girl or boy.

I do wonder how you didn't notice anything that would be considered offensive.

Obviously, because you have read into it things that I have not.

*Tampon #youdonthavetobleed #tellthemyourtesticlesgotcut #dontuseusanymore
Just some marketing ideas that popped in my head after seeing that.

*copyright texastruth

a reply to: Boadicea

Why should I want to buy something from someone that beats me over the head with negative stereotypes?

originally posted by: Dwoodward85
a reply to: Boadicea

The reason the ad is getting the reaction it is isn't because it's telling men that we need to be helpful, not fight, not bully, don't sexually harass women etc. is because it literally starts out by accusing all men (majority of men if I'm being nice) are those things. The idea that saying Boys will be Boys is a horrible phrase, that you can't be a man and be masculine because you cant be (insert otherism).

I definitely agree that the commercial should have focused more on the positive, and clearly portrayed "toxic masculinity" as a problem among the few -- NOT the many -- encouraging and praising the best behavior.

But, much like Gillette mucked that up, men are mucking up their response as well. By all means, sing the praises of the vast majority of men who are stand up guys and do not bully others. Point out the falsity of their numbers, while refusing the broad brush. Attack and correct the misconceptions. But don't just dismiss the male harassment and bullying that does occur.

If the advert would've been about women and pointed to bad things that women do: The number of women drinking heavily is up, women refusing to allow fathers certain rights, women claiming falsely accusing men of harassment, women who leave their children, women who groom young boys and get little jail time compared to men etc. etc. there would be cries and feet stamping from women.

Well, of course there would -- and for the same reasons! It's just as ridiculous to throw all women under a bus as it is to throw all men under the bus. What does any of this prove except that men and women can and do behave badly! But do you believe that ALL women are guilty of the above? I would sure hope not. I would hope that you know better, just like we know that not all men are guilty.

I used to scoff at the idea of their being a war on men but after the last few days including the one that came out from America a few days ago that said that being masculine is harmful, that there is a war against men.

Isn't there pretty much a "war" by someone on everyone and everything these days? I'll bet if you thought about it, you could identify three things about yourself that someone is waging a "war" on... that's the nature of the divide-and-conquer campaigns being waged. No one is safe. And everyone will be painted in the absolute worst light. That's the point.

What can any of us do except defend what is good and right, and concede and condemn what is wrong and harmful? If we don't make those distinctions, who will?

Not the ones causing the hatefulness and hurtfulness. That's for damn sure.

a reply to: Boadicea

How about if they made an ad showing only blacks, then said, "Stop mugging people, buy our razor blades?" Would that make sense to you? What's the difference?

a reply to: Boadicea

I definitely see it differently than you.

Back in the 50s and 60s women were told and portrayed in media that they are weak and needed a man to take care of them.
Every woman fell down in monster movies.

The way I see the world today is a pendulum swing in the opposite direction. Men are portrayed as idiots and told being a man is toxic.

Society is attempting to empower women not by empathizing their strengths but by weakening men.
It's a terrible path and it will bite us in the butt eventually.

This commercial is just more of the same garbage.

originally posted by: toms54
a reply to: Boadicea

Why should I want to buy something from someone that beats me over the head with negative stereotypes?

Well, two questions:

1 -- Why are you taking it so personally? If someone describes the bad behavior of some women, I don't take it personally. I'm not like all other women and all other women are not like me. And if I thought someone was lumping us all together, I would point out the distinctions and that the "all women" was unfair and disingenuous. I wouldn't condemn anyone for pointing out very real bad behavior by some women.

2 -- Why do you dismiss bullying and harassment as stereotypes rather than the bad behavior of the few? There is no doubt that it happens. It's not like someone just made it up out of whole cloth. Make the distinction that it's true of "some" men but not "all" men. Call them out for not giving good men credit where credit is due. Provide your own examples -- the many many examples -- of positive male behavior.

The perception (rightly AND wrongly) is that men don't want to call out the bad behavior by other men and that they actually approve of such bullying and harassment.

originally posted by: toms54
a reply to: Boadicea

How about if they made an ad showing only blacks, then said, "Stop mugging people, buy our razor blades?" Would that make sense to you? What's the difference?

Well, let's see if I can apply the same logic and principles to your scenario...

I definitely agree that the commercial should have focused more on the positive, and clearly portrayed "toxic masculinity" as a problem among the few -- NOT the many -- encouraging and praising the best behavior.

But, much like Gillette mucked that up, men are mucking up their response as well. By all means, sing the praises of the vast majority of men who are stand up guys and do not bully others. Point out the falsity of their numbers, while refusing the broad brush. Attack and correct the misconceptions. But don't just dismiss the male harassment and bullying that does occur.

I definitely agree that the commercial should have focused more on the positive, and clearly portrayed the Black muggers as a problem among the few (gangbangers) -- NOT the many -- encouraging and praising the best behavior.

But, much like Gillette mucked that up, BLM is mucking up their response as well. By all means, sing the praises of the vast majority of Black men who are stand up guys and do not mug others. Point out the falsity of their numbers, while refusing the broad brush. Attack and correct the misconceptions. But don't just dismiss the Black muggings and crimes that do occur.

a reply to: Boadicea

You are overthinking this. It's not about BLM or whether black crime exists.

It's that Gillette is insulting it's customers with an offensive negative stereotype and then expects then to buy their product as a result.

Why are you flooding with these dense comments?

a reply to: Boadicea

Find me an example in mass media of a "good" man. Look at sitcoms - the man is almost always the idiot or a womanizer. Action movie heroes are now deemed "toxic".

By the way, "toxic" by whose standards? Toxic is a relative matter. Peanuts can be terribly toxic in very small doses to someone who is allergic, but that same dose is nowhere near toxic to me. So maybe this idea of toxic is being defined by feminists who are allergic to masculinity?

originally posted by: toms54
a reply to: Boadicea

You are overthinking this. It's not about BLM or whether black crime exists.

It's that Gillette is insulting it's customers with an offensive negative stereotype and then expects then to buy their product as a result.

Why are you flooding with these dense comments?

No she isn't, Boadicea makes perfect sense. The ad does not stereotype all men, it portrays some men's toxic behaviour and other non-toxic men stepping in to stop bullying and other negative behaviour. Gillette is really only calling out those men who think that type of behaviour is acceptable.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Boadicea

Find me an example in mass media of a "good" man. Look at sitcoms - the man is almost always the idiot or a womanizer. Action movie heroes are now deemed "toxic".

By the way, "toxic" by whose standards? Toxic is a relative matter. Peanuts can be terribly toxic in very small doses to someone who is allergic, but that same dose is nowhere near toxic to me. So maybe this idea of toxic is being defined by feminists who are allergic to masculinity?

It is merely, IMO, a case of feminists seeking revenge for decades of women being subjugated by men of those eras. However, in their lack of genius, blaming the men today for the sins of their fathers and grandfathers, en-masse.

That is the reason for much of this backlash. The blaming of men now for, agreeably, harassing actions of the past.

This is wrong on so many levels, that it will result in a swing back to actions of those bygone days as an equal and opposite reaction.

originally posted by: Krakatoa

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Boadicea

Find me an example in mass media of a "good" man. Look at sitcoms - the man is almost always the idiot or a womanizer. Action movie heroes are now deemed "toxic".

By the way, "toxic" by whose standards? Toxic is a relative matter. Peanuts can be terribly toxic in very small doses to someone who is allergic, but that same dose is nowhere near toxic to me. So maybe this idea of toxic is being defined by feminists who are allergic to masculinity?

It is merely, IMO, a case of feminists seeking revenge for decades of women being subjugated by men of those eras. However, in their lack of genius, blaming the men today for the sins of their fathers and grandfathers, en-masse.

That is the reason for much of this backlash. The blaming of men now for, agreeably, harassing actions of the past.

This is wrong on so many levels, that it will result in a swing back to actions of those bygone days as an equal and opposite reaction.

Do you have proof that the bad feminists put together this ad?

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: Krakatoa

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Boadicea

Find me an example in mass media of a "good" man. Look at sitcoms - the man is almost always the idiot or a womanizer. Action movie heroes are now deemed "toxic".

By the way, "toxic" by whose standards? Toxic is a relative matter. Peanuts can be terribly toxic in very small doses to someone who is allergic, but that same dose is nowhere near toxic to me. So maybe this idea of toxic is being defined by feminists who are allergic to masculinity?

It is merely, IMO, a case of feminists seeking revenge for decades of women being subjugated by men of those eras. However, in their lack of genius, blaming the men today for the sins of their fathers and grandfathers, en-masse.

That is the reason for much of this backlash. The blaming of men now for, agreeably, harassing actions of the past.

This is wrong on so many levels, that it will result in a swing back to actions of those bygone days as an equal and opposite reaction.

Do you have proof that the bad feminists put together this ad?

The proof is in the message. If, that is, you dare to open your eyes and see it for what it is. As mentioned before, it is a systemic attack on men, in all media forms, which is the radical feminist movement in action.

Mark my words, that approach WILL result in a reaction that you will not like.

a reply to: InTheLight

I look at it from the viewpoint, "Will this ad sell razor blades?" Sure, the ad appeals to you. How many Gillette blades are you going to buy? More than most men?

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: toms54
a reply to: Boadicea

You are overthinking this. It's not about BLM or whether black crime exists.

It's that Gillette is insulting it's customers with an offensive negative stereotype and then expects then to buy their product as a result.

Why are you flooding with these dense comments?

No she isn't, Boadicea makes perfect sense. The ad does not stereotype all men, it portrays some men's toxic behaviour and other non-toxic men stepping in to stop bullying and other negative behaviour. Gillette is really only calling out those men who think that type of behaviour is acceptable.

But it very much shows men negatively. Where do men go to see themselves portrayed positively? Again, if it is a problem that children of color never see themselves portrayed in media positively, then isn't it also a problem that little boys also never see themselves portrayed as good things in media?

The mistake being made is that "men rule the culture" because they are patriarchal oppressors so, of course, they see themselves in power everywhere and that makes them feel good, but the message is not there quite like you think it is. If it was, then women would not be the majority on college campuses and the majority of degree earners, etc.

originally posted by: toms54
a reply to: Boadicea

You are overthinking this. It's not about BLM or whether black crime exists.

You asked me. I didn't bring that up. And I address that scenario EXACTLY the same way I addressed the Gillette commercial.

It's that Gillette is insulting it's customers with an offensive negative stereotype and then expects then to buy their product as a result.

So what are you really saying? Drop the buzzwords and dog whistles. Are you saying that the bullying and harassment is NOT bad behavior? Or are you saying that it's just a "offensive negative stereotype" that doesn't exist or happen in the real world? Or are you saying that what others do is not your problem?

Why are you flooding with these dense comments?

Hmmm... did I ruin your echo chamber? Did you not want to discuss... hear other thoughts and opinions... possible gain new insight and perspective? Just want to hear what you want to hear???

I very respectfully explained what I did not understand, and asked for your perspective. I wasn't insulting. I never suggested or implied or inferred that you or any other poster is guilty of abuse, nor did I suggest or imply or infer that all men are guilty of "toxic masculinity" and specifically said otherwise. Again and again, I've heard defensive whining crying about being insulted and offended, with absolutely no acknowledgement of the bullying and harassment by other men, but of course girls and women slammed for bad behavior. Which, I will add, I was the first to acknowledge in my first response, and I actually said I'd like to see one made for them -- the "mean girls".

I sure as hell didn't whine and cry about "offensive negative stereotypes" and project myself as one of those "mean girls," much less call anyone "dense" for saying the obvious.

But okay. I'll leave you to your echo chamber. I have my answers.

originally posted by: toms54
a reply to: InTheLight

I look at it from the viewpoint, "Will this ad sell razor blades?" Sure, the ad appeals to you. How many Gillette blades are you going to buy? More than most men?

You bet it will sell razor blades because the ad appeals to many people of both genders that agree with the true message, which some of you here have missed.

I prefer to go Amazonian woman lately, so blades are of little use to me.

By the way...

P&G said it has no plans to pull the spot in the face of some negative reaction. “We recognize it’s sparking a lot of passionate dialogue—at the same time, it’s getting people to stop and think about what it means to be our best selves, which is the point of the spot,” Mr. Bhalla said.

Mr. Balla said.

www.wsj.com...