Damming classified report on USS Fitzgerald collision released

a reply to: BigDave-AR

Really, you called me a prick after I suggested some Navy and Air Force actions could be indicating some issues.

It appears you do in some form.

originally posted by: roadgravel
a reply to: BigDave-AR

Really, you called me a prick after I suggested some Navy and Air Force actions could be indicating some issues.

It appears you do in some form.

I never argued that they’re aren’t problems quite the opposite if they focused on issues like this more than making heads roll for petty things the armed services would be in much better shape.

Fight the Ship: Death and valor on a warship doomed by its own Navy

It reads like, has the dramatic tone of, and is almost as long as a Tom Clancy novel, but it offers a lot of details and context that don't tend to come through in news reports.

Hopefully the many hard lessons learned will lead to improvements in the way the Navy operates.

a reply to: Majic

I haven't finished it yet, but interesting read so far.

a reply to: Majic

its like an episode of gomer pyle on the high seas.
the helmsmen literally didnt know how to steer the dang ol thing

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: Zaphod58

Do you think charge the officers criminally?

No; charge the captain, he/she is responsible for everything that happens on the ship. The Captain is IN CONTROL not the reporting officers.

the discipiline, the resources, the culture, the governing practices, the reporting processes are ALL the responsibility of the captain.

Thinking the reporting officers are responsibile, is a trap that many fall into. It is that allows those at the top to stay in their position.

Saying "i was not aware of 'x,' should be interpreted to mean " I did not have a sufficient and robust reporting and auditing processes and systems in place so therefore I failed to do my job."

a reply to: Azureblue

utter twaddle

you have to charge EVERYONE responsible // negligent

junior officers and enlisteds - CANNOT just walk away from an incident they caused with the quip " the captain is in charge "

originally posted by: JIMC5499
a reply to: Zaphod58

Things like this start at the top and work their way down. If ALL of the rot isn't cleaned out, it is just going to happen again. The Navy has had this problem for years and every time it comes up it has been handled the same way. Hammer somebody in the middle of the food chain, declare victory and move on.

I dont think things have gotten worse or better overall.
It depends on the ship and captain involved.
The Navy yearbook for my ship was full of pictures from sailors from the past like the 70s that looked like they crawled out of a hole. Facial hair and unkempt clothes which was not allowed when I was in.

The captain of the ship was the hardest on people that came back drunk from liberty and yet he would have to be escorted to his quarters after stumbling back drunk himself.

The ship failed an inspection because 1 aircraft elevator was broken and a lot of other things did not work. If a war broke out, we would have been in big trouble and this was in the late 80s.

Admiral Philip Davidson testified in front of the SASC today, and made some mind bogglingly stupid statements. The kicker being that while the Fitzgerald and Mccain collisions were certainly tragedies, there were 280 ships that didn't suffer collisions during that same period.

taskandpurpose.com...

a reply to: Zaphod58

point out to admiral davidson that :

i - maersk- operates far more vessels - and has far less collisions // fatal incidents

2 - rOW navies have combined larger fleets - and fewer collisions

3 - USN atlantic fleet and other divisions have had zero collisions

a reply to: Zaphod58

Admiral Davidson should be reassigned to the Department of Homeland Security. That way he could regale the Senate with reassurances such as these...

"On September 11, 2001, over 300 million Americans weren't killed by terrorists. I think that's what we need to remember."

originally posted by: Zaphod58
Admiral Philip Davidson testified in front of the SASC today, and made some mind bogglingly stupid statements. The kicker being that while the Fitzgerald and Mccain collisions were certainly tragedies, there were 280 ships that didn't suffer collisions during that same period.

taskandpurpose.com...

That’s crazy what kind of non answer is that?!?
Agreed with ignorant ape there are larger commercial fleets that have far fewer incidents, that admiral needs to retire if that’s really his way of thinking.

How did this ship pass its OPERATIONAL READINESS INSPECTION (ORI) and INSURV inspections.

I was on a old early 1950s minesweep and we got Command Excellence Awards or Command Effectiveness Awards every year in the early 1970s that i was on board.
www.navysite.de...

Maybe it was just us wooden ship sailers had pride in our wooden ships.
www.navsource.org...

a reply to: Majic



Thanks for sharing this; its a really good read. It is super embarrassing too...

Oh look. Another CO that will get away with totally screwing the pooch.

However, it is unclear whether Benson will ever go to trial for the Fitzgerald collision. He had been charged with dereliction of duty and improper hazarding of a vessel, but the case was thrown into legal limbo in January when a military judge disqualified the admiral who had been overseeing the trial and ruled the charges against Benson had been "defectively referred" to court-martial, said Lt. Cmdr. Justin Henderson, one of Benson's attorneys.

Although the Navy initially charged Benson with negligent homicide as well, that charge was dropped in June 2018, Henderson said.

taskandpurpose.com...

a reply to: ANNED
As i understand, it didn't. Apparently it only passed 7 of the 22 tests, and was way behind on training and personnel quals.

It sounds like these were long standing issues as well. Carried over from the previous CO. Pleas to 7th Fleet for relief fell on deaf ears. Plenty of guilt to go around.

originally posted by: ANNED
How did this ship pass its OPERATIONAL READINESS INSPECTION (ORI) and INSURV inspections.

I was on a old early 1950s minesweep and we got Command Excellence Awards or Command Effectiveness Awards every year in the early 1970s that i was on board.
www.navysite.de...

Maybe it was just us wooden ship sailers had pride in our wooden ships.
www.navsource.org...

That old girl had a pretty long service life for a wooden warship, retired in 91. Wouldn’t have thought she’d have 4 diesels though. Fires were no joke on those minesweepers. Too bad she got decom’ed before the gulf war that was a pretty segonifamt sea mine war.

@zap
Man this really chaps my arse when you have things like that B52 squadron CO getting relieved of command for petty BS.

Both the former CO and the Tactical Action Officer were censured, but all charges against them have been dropped.

taskandpurpose.com...

a reply to: Zaphod58

so whos fault was it then

How the investigating Admiral screwed the investigation.