Has Science found evidence of the Mandela Effect?

This is yet another nail in the coffin of objective reality. Thank you Quantum Mechanics!

Here's the article and I will comment afterwards.

New Interpretation of Schrodinger's Cat Disrupts Quantum Mechanics

It might be the most famous thought experiment in the world. A cat in a box could either be alive or dead -- and until that box was opened, one had to theorize that it could be both. Physicist Erwin Schrodinger described the scenario, and it became one of the basic explanations for quantum theory. Now, two physicists are challenging that riddle with their own version of the paradox. They replace the kitty with physicists conducting experiments. The result of their new theory has stumped other physicists.

Physicists Daniela Frauchiger and Renato Renner of the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (ETH) in Zurich, were the first to pose the argument online in spring of 2016. And it's been debated hotly ever since.

One friend (Anna) tosses a coin and (because she's luckily a physicist) makes a quantum message to send to her friend Brad. Brad (who is also a physicist) can pick up Anna's message and understand the result of the coin toss.

The problems start when the Wigners open their boxes to check on their friends. According to Renner, when they open their boxes, they should conclude with certainty where the coin landed in the toss.

However, their conclusions are inconsistent. “One says, ‘I’m sure it’s tails,’ and the other one says, ‘I’m sure it’s heads,’” Renner told Nature. The pair of Swiss physicists have managed to considerably upset modern physicists in the process of sharing their new deliberations.

link

What you just read there is PRETTY AMAZING!

This is science talking about the Mandela Effect. It's saying when you apply Quantum Theory to complex systems, you have this effect where 2 observers can observe 2 different events on a singular timeline. This effect would be small but noticeable and WE HAVE NOTICED!

Just type in Mandela Effect or strange coincidences in Google search engine or on You Tube and you will see tons of examples.

I remember being at a store with my Mom and I was walking up the end of the aisle and my Mom came rushing up one of the aisles and said did you see Patty. Patty is my cousin. There was nobody but me walking up the end of the aisle. We even looked around the store for my cousin Patty. Of course, my Mom laughed it off and said she must have been mistaken. These types of things happen all the time but when they happen we just explain it away.

WHAT IF?

My Mom and I, for a split second, observed 2 different events on a singular timeline?

This could be why with the Mandela Effect, people remember 2 different histories for an event.

This would be groundbreaking to say the least and it would also confirm, once again, that QM destroys any notion of objective realism. If 2 histories of an event can be observed on occasion by 2 observers then how can you say what we experience is objectively real? It would say the universe we experience is more about our minds and the way we observe it not any objective physical reality.

a reply to: neoholographic


Qunatum Mechanics has got to be one of the dumbest theories man has come up with. We are going to look back on this time in 100 years and laugh at the stuff these Quantum Physicists believed. I am more a Bohmian Mechanics guy myself, it explains most of the qunatum phenomena observed using common sense. Quantum Physics is a pseudo science at best.

a reply to: norhoc

You said:

Qunatum Mechanics has got to be one of the dumbest theories man has come up with.

LOL, you have to be joking?

The underlying math of QM is one of the strongest scientific theories that man has ever discovered. QM gives us our modern world. Here's a great article from Big Think about this.

The Bizarre and Wonderful World of Quantum Theory—And How Understanding It Has Ultimately Changed Our Lives

Some of what quantum theory predicts and states is almost like something out of science fiction. Matter can essentially be in an infinite number of places at any given time; it is possible that there are many worlds or a multiverse; things disappear and reappear somewhere else; you cannot simultaneously know the exact position and momentum of an object; and even quantum entanglement (Einstein referred to it as spooky action at a distance) where it’s possible for two quantum particles to link together effectively making them part of the same entity or entangled. Even if these particles are separated, a change in one is ultimately and instantly reflected in it’s counterpart. At the end of the day, the world of entanglement caused physicists like Einstein to both dislike the predictions and feel nothing more as if their were serious errors in the calculations. As Einstein once wrote: "I find the idea quite intolerable that an electron exposed to radiation should choose of its own free will, not only its moment to jump off, but also its direction. In that case, I would rather be a cobbler, or even an employee in a gaming house, than a physicist".

The strange predictions of quantum theory also prompted many famous "thought" experiments such as "Schrodinger’s Cat" devised by Erwin Schrodinger in 1935. As I state in my book "Hyperspace," on page 261: "Schrodinger placed an imaginary cat in a sealed box. The cat faces a gun, which is connected to a Geiger counter, which in turn is connected to a piece of uranium. The uranium atom is unstable and will undergo radioactive decay. If a uranium nucleus disintegrates, it will be picked up by the Geiger counter, which will then trigger the gun, whose bullet with kill the cat. To decide whether the cat is dead or alive, we must open the box and observe the cat. However, what is the state of the cat before we open the box? According to quantum theory, we can only state that the cat is described by a wave function that describes the sum of a dead can and live cat. To Schrodinger, the idea of think about cats that are neither dead nor alive was the height of absurdity, yet nevertheless the experimental confirmation of quantum mechanics forces us to this conclusion. At present, every experiment has verified quantum theory." So quantum theory sounds preposterous and its predictions seem to be something out of a science fiction movie. Yet it has only tiny thing going for it: It works.

link

Again, if you accept QM on it's face, then you don't need any interpretations. You just have to accept the weirdness that comes with it because "weirdness" is subjective and the universe doesn't care if you don't like the way it works.

You have all of these interpretations because Scientist can't accept what QM says. They think QM has to mean something other than what it says so you have:

Copenhagen Interpretation
Bohemian Mechanics
Many Worlds
Many Histories
Quantum Bayesianism
Ensemble Interpretation
Objective collapse theories
Transactional interpretation
Cosmological interpretation
Quantum Darwinism

And the list goes on.........

Proponents of each of these interpretations will swear to the ends of the earth that they have evidence that says theirs is the correct interpretation out of this smorgasbord.

If you just accept QM as is, you don't need any interpretation. Interpretations are just HUBRIS from Scientist that can't accept the "weirdness" QM predicts.

a reply to: neoholographic


Man has made the math to agree with their BS QM theories.

Unless reality is more of a brain thing than an actual universe reality.

I have a theory on this.

We have a brain that may be exponentially more capable than we know, on the other hand, it may just be slightly more capable.

Years ago when it was used to its maximum potential to start a fire, understand how to manipulate our surroundings to keep warm and fed we couldn’t understand much more and so when the brain started asking about weather, lightning and the stars, we wrote various versions of the Bible (other scriptures apply), this also had the added benefit of controlling people (we are a crazy race) for both nefarious and simple reasons.

Ever since the religious scrips were wrote, every science (mathematical) advance has been called witchcraft by the god botherers and progress by those on the fence.

More recently we have (in the main) celebrated science and in a lesser extent acknowledged a greater being.

It seems that once again we are establishing a common limit to current mainstream brains, seeing these new pictures of galaxies so far and massive that our brains cannot contemplate it in it entirety, we are rolling out the old thoughts, why are we here? Where is here?

That cat is a mind fcuk, it’s dead the minute an atom dissolves, regardless of how you use it.

Matter being in two places and the ‘Mandela Effect’ are what they used to call sorcery, not the kind that invented gun powder, the kind that thinks eating mushrooms open your mind.

We don’t yet know what the next major expansion of our knowledge will be, but it will happen.

However, Dinosaurs existed for much longer than we have and didn’t live in two places at once, they developed until they die out, as will we and as will our replacement species.

DLDR: It’s people playing brain tricks, our history has shown solid science since for ever, no tricks, no 3rd dimensions, just a very regimented evolution.

This is p1ss and wind in my opinion.

Double post

a reply to: neoholographic

Is it false to say quantum physics

en.m.wikipedia.org...

is a fundamental theory in physics which describes nature at the smallest scales of energy levels of atoms and subatomic particles.[2]

And does not work for describing interaction for items on a molecule level.

You can have spooky pairs of electrons, but not spooky pairs of death dates for stars.

But it has been proven time and again human memory is flawed and biased.

Thanks for trying.......

I guess you can say with all the studies that prove the unreliability of human memory the most likely cause of the Mandela Effect. Other than people will make things up for attention.

Got to go, time to post some more “UFO” clips on SecureTeam10.....

originally posted by: neoholographic
a reply to: norhoc

You said:

Qunatum Mechanics has got to be one of the dumbest theories man has come up with.

LOL, you have to be joking?

The underlying math of QM is one of the strongest scientific theories that man has ever discovered. QM gives us our modern world. Here's a great article from Big Think about this.

The Bizarre and Wonderful World of Quantum Theory—And How Understanding It Has Ultimately Changed Our Lives

Some of what quantum theory predicts and states is almost like something out of science fiction. Matter can essentially be in an infinite number of places at any given time; it is possible that there are many worlds or a multiverse; things disappear and reappear somewhere else; you cannot simultaneously know the exact position and momentum of an object; and even quantum entanglement (Einstein referred to it as spooky action at a distance) where it’s possible for two quantum particles to link together effectively making them part of the same entity or entangled. Even if these particles are separated, a change in one is ultimately and instantly reflected in it’s counterpart. At the end of the day, the world of entanglement caused physicists like Einstein to both dislike the predictions and feel nothing more as if their were serious errors in the calculations. As Einstein once wrote: "I find the idea quite intolerable that an electron exposed to radiation should choose of its own free will, not only its moment to jump off, but also its direction. In that case, I would rather be a cobbler, or even an employee in a gaming house, than a physicist".

The strange predictions of quantum theory also prompted many famous "thought" experiments such as "Schrodinger’s Cat" devised by Erwin Schrodinger in 1935. As I state in my book "Hyperspace," on page 261: "Schrodinger placed an imaginary cat in a sealed box. The cat faces a gun, which is connected to a Geiger counter, which in turn is connected to a piece of uranium. The uranium atom is unstable and will undergo radioactive decay. If a uranium nucleus disintegrates, it will be picked up by the Geiger counter, which will then trigger the gun, whose bullet with kill the cat. To decide whether the cat is dead or alive, we must open the box and observe the cat. However, what is the state of the cat before we open the box? According to quantum theory, we can only state that the cat is described by a wave function that describes the sum of a dead can and live cat. To Schrodinger, the idea of think about cats that are neither dead nor alive was the height of absurdity, yet nevertheless the experimental confirmation of quantum mechanics forces us to this conclusion. At present, every experiment has verified quantum theory." So quantum theory sounds preposterous and its predictions seem to be something out of a science fiction movie. Yet it has only tiny thing going for it: It works.

link

Again, if you accept QM on it's face, then you don't need any interpretations. You just have to accept the weirdness that comes with it because "weirdness" is subjective and the universe doesn't care if you don't like the way it works.

You have all of these interpretations because Scientist can't accept what QM says. They think QM has to mean something other than what it says so you have:

Copenhagen Interpretation
Bohemian Mechanics
Many Worlds
Many Histories
Quantum Bayesianism
Ensemble Interpretation
Objective collapse theories
Transactional interpretation
Cosmological interpretation
Quantum Darwinism

And the list goes on.........

Proponents of each of these interpretations will swear to the ends of the earth that they have evidence that says theirs is the correct interpretation out of this smorgasbord.

If you just accept QM as is, you don't need any interpretation. Interpretations are just HUBRIS from Scientist that can't accept the "weirdness" QM predicts.

Well, it confirms the Mandela Effect and we can't have that, so, now we have to throw out Quantum Mechanics... just the way it goes. Shoulda stayed away from the weirdness. Now they're gonna take it away from us...

originally posted by: roadgravel
Unless reality is more of a brain thing than an actual universe reality.

Ummm...not a brain thing...a consciousness thing...




YouSir

a reply to: 3n19m470

Again, moot point. Quantum physics describes the behavior of items that compose the structure of atoms. It describes subatomic behavior. Saying quantum physics explains people’s memories is like saying solid iron has the same properties of iron in a plasma state.

a reply to: neoholographic

New Interpretation of Schrodinger's.......

Correct me if I'm wrong but all I see is a philosophical/thought/ experiment. Were these physicists using any maths or just "playing" with ideas?

from the link

“Some get emotional,” Renner said. And different researchers tend to draw different conclusions. “Most people claim that the experiment shows that their interpretation is the only one that is correct.”

All choices are correct therefore nothing is correct.

i hate when people use quantum physics to explain fortean phenomena, quantum events only happen in a microscopic scale, not a macroscopic one
otherwise paranormal events would be very very normal

originally posted by: neoholographic
I remember being at a store with my Mom and I was walking up the end of the aisle and my Mom came rushing up one of the aisles and said did you see Patty. Patty is my cousin. There was nobody but me walking up the end of the aisle. We even looked around the store for my cousin Patty. Of course, my Mom laughed it off and said she must have been mistaken. These types of things happen all the time but when they happen we just explain it away.

WHAT IF?

My Mom and I, for a split second, observed 2 different events on a singular timeline?

But why would it only happen for a split second? If Patty was there for your mom but not for you, I think it would cause a million other differences in the future, that spiral out of control, like going back into the past and changing things to make sure Patty goes to the store.

a reply to: neoholographic

Here is my mandel effect which proved to me that's its all just faulty memory of a young age.

Space shuttle Discovery. I only remembered Columbia.

Both did happen but when Discovery burnt up in reentry I was boozing and doing drugs as a teen.

As a reasonable adult I lacked the memory and thought I must be the victim of the paranormal.

After actually back tracking my memories I found the actual reason.

I forgot.

a reply to: neoholographic

No, it's not.
www.nature.com...

It involves guessing and not knowing how quantum mechanics works yet. Any suggestion of this proving ME is laughable.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

It's obvious you didn't read the link to the article you posted, because it supports what I'm saying. First it says:

Quantum theory has a long history of thought experiments, and in most cases these are used to point to weaknesses in various interpretations of quantum mechanics. But the latest version, which involves multiple players, is unusual: it shows that if the standard interpretation of quantum mechanics is correct, then different experimenters can reach opposite conclusions about what the physicist in the box has measured. This means that quantum theory contradicts itself.

The conceptual experiment has been debated with gusto in physics circles for more than two years — and has left most researchers stumped, even in a field accustomed to weird concepts. “I think this is a whole new level of weirdness,” says Matthew Leifer, a theoretical physicist at Chapman University in Orange, California.

Nope, it means quantum weirdness is a reality for complex systems and it shows that the Mandela Effect is real. This again is the Hubris of Scientist that I talked about earlier. They can't accept these results because it's too weird. But Science doesn't care that Scientist think something is weird. Quantum Mechanics has been called weird since day one. Einstein called Entanglement spooky action at a distance and today this spooky action has been confirmed in experiments over and over again.

So it doesn't matter if Einstein thought it was spooky.

This is more about Scientist and their interpretations. THIS IS FROM TH ARTICLE YOU POSTED:

Physicists are still coming to terms with the implications of the result. It has triggered heated responses from experts in the foundations of quantum theory, many of whom tend to be protective of their pet interpretation. “Some get emotional,” Renner says. And different researchers tend to draw different conclusions. “Most people claim that the experiment shows that their interpretation is the only one that is correct.”

EXACTLY WHAT I SAID!

I said this earlier:

You have all of these interpretations because Scientist can't accept what QM says. They think QM has to mean something other than what it says so you have: Copenhagen Interpretation Bohemian Mechanics Many Worlds Many Histories Quantum Bayesianism Ensemble Interpretation Objective collapse theories Transactional interpretation Cosmological interpretation Quantum Darwinism And the list goes on......... Proponents of each of these interpretations will swear to the ends of the earth that they have evidence that says theirs is the correct interpretation out of this smorgasbord.

This is clear evidence of the Mandela Effect this is why the result has been so hotly debated in the Physics community. It says,



It says, that sometimes Observers come to different conclusions about an event using the standard interpretation of Quantum Mechanics.

The Scientist conclude that QM contradicts itself for complex systems because they can't accept what it obviously shows.

TWO OBSERVERS CAN COME TO 2 DIFFERENT CONCLUSIONS ABOUT A SINGULAR EVENT.

This is the Mandela Effect. This isn't 2 different guesses. The conclusions of the 2 observers should be certain every time because their using the standard interpretation of QM to reach their conclusions. This is why this is hotly debated. It says complex systems will observe 2 different results for a singular event.

AGAIN< THIS IS THE MANDELA EFFECT!

Scientist don't want to accept the standard interpretation of QM which has been shown to be correct time and again, they want a million interpretations because it's too "weird" for it to be correct. Thinking it's weird is subjective and science doesn't care that you think a particular result is weird.

I contribute more than I perceive. Guess my non version may have importance, but I don't. The future may have me as something I wasn't.

a reply to: neoholographic

The problem is with schroedingers thought experiment it wasn't really that-he was highlighting the absurdities of the Copenhagen interpretation.

When Austrian physicist Erwin Schrödinger spun this paradoxical tale in 1935, he wasn't saying that cats can be simultaneously dead and alive. He was actually criticizing the prevailing school of thought in quantum mechanics, the Copenhagen interpretation, by showing how preposterous it would be when scaled up to affect objects in the visible world. The Copenhagen interpretation suggested that particles existed in all possible states (different positions, energies or speeds) until they were observed, at which point they collapsed into one set state. If that were true, he was arguing, you'd be able to have a cat that was simultaneously dead and alive until you opened your creepy cat-killing box to check on it.

Unfortunately for our buddy Erwin, the ridiculousness of his analogy hasn't kept the whole dead-and-alive-until-proven-otherwise-and-then-suddenly-you're-either-dead-or-alive thing from being true, at least at the microscopic scale.

If quantum fluctuations did cause Mandela effect, shouldn't we all experience it? i'm still thinking brain waves, truth is we know more about quantum physics then we do about the brain.