Vandals Topple Joshua Trees Amid Shutdown, Igniting Outrage

originally posted by: seattlerat
a reply to: Halfswede

Did you even look at the two articles? There is more to the story than a single felled tree. There are illegal campsites, broken locks, cut chains, and other vandalism. Why is it so difficult to believe that it is possible that the tree was intentionally knocked down?

Whether the trees were vandalized is not the point. They may have been, and certainly vandalism happens at parks all the time, more so when unattended. The article and linked tweets are claiming that it was done by off-roaders (read rednecks) to illegally access the park. Simply not true, the access is not improved in any way by the now toppled trees so why spin it that way.

If they were knocked down -- the first one appears to be a completely natural fall as there is healed scarring around the edges -- the second could have been toppled by roping and pulling or just high winds/ice -- it happens.

Again, if they were knocked down, it was A-holes period, not the implication by the article that it was some MAGA-types and this is all the fault of some political stuff.

As AM has said there's plenty of room there in that one picture for access to 4 by 4's without the need for chop or top.

However as expected, it didn't take long for the US politicos to make the twisted argument that somehow it's to make Trump look bad.....by guess who??
FFS, people catch yourselves on, Trump doesn't need any help anyway, this is such a corny scenario...nobody ever heard of vandals?...it's a white European disease, and has been before there was even the USA.

Lest we forget...this is California we're talking about.

Californians set fire to tens of thousands of acres of their beautiful state on a regular basis...yet a naturally-fallen tree in a park suddenly "Ignites Outrage".

Calling political BS.

Illegal activities happened in the 2013 shutdown as well. It seems to happen during government shutdowns on all levels.

Around The Parks: Vandals, Occupiers And Cyclists
By Kurt Repanshek on October 7th, 2013

Across the National Park System, the absence of rangers leave the parks targets for vandals, according to Alan O’Neill, who is retired now but was superintendent of Lake Mead National Recreation Area during the last government shutdown, in 1995-96.

"In the past, when we didn’t have eyes and ears out there and volunteers and others, we experienced tremendous vandalism. We experienced gang assembly in some of the areas closest to Los Vegas," he recounted during a phone call Friday. "The vandalism just increased incredibly during those times.

***SNIP***

Dennis Schramm, who was superintendent of Mojave Desert National Preserve during the last shutdown, agreed.

“In the Mojave, the biggest concern is in the backcountry where you don’t have control of every road coming into the preserve, and you don’t have enough eyes and ears out there," he said. "There are cultural resources, natural resources. We’ve had cactus poaching in the past, deer poaching, so there’s a number of things that can go on and you don’t have enough eyes out there to keep an eye on it."

www.nationalparkstraveler.org...

It's unfortunate that there are those that will take any opportunity to mis-behave and take advantage.

It's just a tree.
As long as we enough to generate the CO2 we need, all is good.

This is NOT the Mud Pit!!!

All rules for polite political debate will be enforced.
Reaffirming Our Desire For Productive Political Debate (REVISED)

You are responsible for your own posts.....those who ignore that responsibility will face mod actions.


and, as always:

Do NOT reply to this post!!

a reply to: seattlerat

I once had the Joshua Tree album.


Bummer about the tree.

Funny thing is, they'll hunt for the "tree cutter-downer-guy" more than they would for an illegal who killed several people in a drunken rage.

But remember, they named the tree after an album, so I guess it's more important.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: seattlerat


If that was chopped down where are the woodchips around the trunk? The other photo in your link clearly shows another tree that split much further up the trunk and appears to be due to natural causes.

ETA: This whole story sounds really suspicious. You need to cut a single tree down to go off-roading? Why not go around. Sounds like some hysterics are being hysterical over a fallen tree that totally appears to have fallen on it's own.


ETA 2: And this does answer the age old question, if a Joshua Tree falls in the woods does it cause Trump Derangement Syndrome. The answer: Yes.

pretty damn old looking with dirt in where we should see fresh insides, plus the rest of the tree looks pretty much dead...lol

Thus endeth the thread & the controversy.

Thanks.

a reply to: UKTruth

originally posted by: UKTruth
It's just a tree.
As long as we enough to generate the CO2 we need, all is good.

Ya that tree CO2 generation is important...

I read on Twitter that the photo was taken during the Obama Administration.

Believe it or not, these incidents (illegal camping, destruction of habitat, etc) happen when the government isn’t shut down.

Wait...did this ALSO happen during a government shutdown?

Suspected arson fire at Joshua Tree damages California landmark
PUBLISHED: March 27, 2018

www.mercurynews.com...


Did HuffPo ALSO tell us all about how THIS "Ignited Outrage"?

a reply to: IAMTAT

That idiot was arrested, fined, and jailed.
The arrest occurred on the day of the fire.


There were park rangers on duty.
www.cnn.com...

originally posted by: spacedoubt
a reply to: IAMTAT

That idiot was arrested, fined, and jailed.
The arrest occurred on the day of the fire.


There were park rangers on duty.

www.cnn.com...

Glad he was caught.
...and, yet, the arson still had already occurred.

By the same token, even if park rangers were on duty...the tree could've just as easily still been cut down.

originally posted by: seattlerat
Why is it so difficult to believe that it is possible that the tree was intentionally knocked down?

In a word or two: Huffington Post...

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If you try to post anything that goes against their ultra Liberal agenda they won't post it. I've had it, I'll never go there again. Huffington post is the most vile one sided news site you will find on the internet. Enough!! The Huffington post is a propaganda network. Not unlike CNN, MSNBC, ABC, and yes, even FOX. All advocates of the NWO and the Zionist agenda.

A little history here, folks. Huffy Puffy was a 100% Liberal BLOG before they partnered with AOL. AOL is supposed to stand for America On Line, not Democrat On Line, which is what it has become since HP became its "News"

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As a man who considers himself more conservative, I have often wondered what the HuffPost is all about. It is, to little surprise, little more than articles taking swings at the GOP and Tea Party and videos of Bill Maher or Bill Nye taking swings at Christianity and Conservatives.

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originally posted by: IAMTAT

originally posted by: spacedoubt
a reply to: IAMTAT

That idiot was arrested, fined, and jailed.
The arrest occurred on the day of the fire.


There were park rangers on duty.

www.cnn.com...

Glad he was caught.
...and, yet, the arson still had already occurred.

By the same token, even if park rangers were on duty...the tree could've just as easily still been cut down.

Possibly, sure.
Better chance of catching them I think.
For a typical sane person (which I think the arsonist was not), police, rangers etc..can be a deterrent.

originally posted by: spacedoubt

originally posted by: IAMTAT

originally posted by: spacedoubt
a reply to: IAMTAT

That idiot was arrested, fined, and jailed.
The arrest occurred on the day of the fire.


There were park rangers on duty.

www.cnn.com...

Glad he was caught.
...and, yet, the arson still had already occurred.

By the same token, even if park rangers were on duty...the tree could've just as easily still been cut down.

Possibly, sure.
Better chance of catching them I think.
For a typical sane person (which I think the arsonist was not), police, rangers etc..can be a deterrent.

Is vandalism a 'sane' act?...and isn't arson also a form of vandalism?

originally posted by: IAMTAT

originally posted by: spacedoubt

originally posted by: IAMTAT

originally posted by: spacedoubt
a reply to: IAMTAT

That idiot was arrested, fined, and jailed.
The arrest occurred on the day of the fire.


There were park rangers on duty.

www.cnn.com...

Glad he was caught.
...and, yet, the arson still had already occurred.

By the same token, even if park rangers were on duty...the tree could've just as easily still been cut down.

Possibly, sure.
Better chance of catching them I think.
For a typical sane person (which I think the arsonist was not), police, rangers etc..can be a deterrent.

Is vandalism a 'sane' act?...and isn't arson also a form of vandalism?

It's just my opinion that this arsonist was a firebug/pyromaniac, and was caught because he stayed to watch the fire.
It's common enough, but again that' my opinion on that guy.

I suppose there could be serial tree whackers, but I'm more of the opinion that a vandal that cuts illegally so they can go 4 wheeling, is just a typical short-sighted/self-serving a-hole. We all know that's part of human nature that some people can't shake.

why cant they bust down the infuriating georgia guide stones instead?