Why Democrats are Being Hypocrites About Border Wall / Immigration

originally posted by: Pyle

originally posted by: Edumakated
It really boils down to TDS, but more importantly Democrats realize that immigrants; more specifically, poor uneducated immigrants from south of the border represents a huge voting block.

If one looks at positions Democrats have taken over the past 10 years, it is pretty clear they have marched further left on this issue and it leads one to wonder why.

The 2008 Democrat Party Platform sounds awfully like President Trumps position. Here is a link so you can read it yourself. The section on immigration is about 3/4s the way down. 2008 Democrat Party Platform

For those too lazy to read the link:

America has always been a nation of immigrants...

We cannot continue to allow people to enter the United States undetected, undocumented, and unchecked. The American people are a welcoming and generous people, but those who enter our country's borders illegally, and those who employ them, disrespect the rule of the law. We need to secure our borders, and support additional personnel, infrastructure, and technology on the border and at our ports of entry. We need additional Customs and Border Protection agents equipped with better technology and real-time intelligence. We need to dismantle human smuggling organizations, combating the crime associated with this trade. We also need to do more to promote economic development in migrant-sending nations, to reduce incentives to come to the United States illegally. And we need to crack down on employers who hire undocumented immigrants.

Hmmm... sounds kind of like conservative taking points.

However, in the 2016 Democrat Party Platform they go from the harsh tone above in 2008 to a much more open tone supporting Dreamers, DACA, etc.... You can see for yourself. The 2016 DNC Platform Go to Page 15.

We've all seen the videos of Schumer and Obama basically saying illegal immigraton is wrong, we need a wall, etc and now they they are taking a completely opposite position.

The question is why?

It really boils down to the Dems wanting the voting block. See Democrats have an issue in that they have conflicting positions within their constituency. One of the problems with the left is that the various identity groups often have conflicting goals and positions.

This is how the Democrats can be the party of women's rights but then also support Islam for example....

What we are seeing here is that there has been a reshuffling of Democrat priorities. In the past, Democrats controlled the working man... blue collar unions. However, these guys are at odds with illegal immigration because illegal immigrants suppress wages. So on the one hand Democrats wanted to support the blue collar guys but this conflicts with also supporting illegal immigrants.

Even Bernie Sanders knows this. In 2007, he opposed the immigration reform bill because:

“If poverty is increasing and if wages are going down, I don’t know why we need millions of people to be coming into this country as guest workers who will work for lower wages than American workers and drive waged down even lower than they are now,” Sanders said in a television interview in June 2007.

So what you are seeing is that Democrats have essentially written off middle America. They've decided that strategically, immigrants will be a larger and more valuable voting block.

One of the biggest mistakes supporters of Trump's wall make is that they think either you are for the wall or you are against all boarder security. Dems dont want the wall, Dems still have boarder security money in the bills they passed to reopen the government, both the current house bills and the bill that passed the senate last congress.

One of the biggest mistakes that the Democrats made was to oppose the wall because orange man reeeeeeee and then remembering that before they were against border security they were for border security.

Which includes a wall.

So now they have to redefine the word "wall" to the word "barrier" so that they can tell their useless eater base that a wall is not a barrier, so they are standing firm!!!!

Intellectual dishonesty.

At least be honest about that.

a reply to: Edumakated


What I lack to understand is why the Democrats think that a fence will stop illegal immigrants but a wall will not. lol. The mentality being displayed by the Democratic Leaders is simply idiotic.


While perusing the MSM the arguments against the wall have been thus.

Trump lies.
Trump is a racist.
The Mueller Investigation.
The wall is immoral.

I have not heard any credible argument against having a wall.
Simply the I don't want a wall, because I hate Trump argument.

a reply to: Pyle

Dems dont want the wall,

You mean they don't want a wall now that Trump is President.

They certainly thought some type of barrier was needed. From their incredible powers of deductive reasoning they thought a fence would work much better at protecting the Nation.

originally posted by: highvein
a reply to: Pyle

Dems dont want the wall,

You mean they don't want a wall now that Trump is President.

They certainly thought some type of barrier was needed. From their incredible powers of deductive reasoning they thought a fence would work much better at protecting the Nation.

We already have fences and walls on the border in places that they are necessary and can be readily manned. Dems have proposed funding to keep those going as is.

a reply to: Pyle

We already have fences and walls on the border in places that they are necessary and can be readily manned. Dems have proposed funding to keep those going as is.

So barriers work?

The democrats are just against it because Trump wants it. Otherwise they would use the normal approach which is to bargain. I don't mean bargain down the cost but to ask for something they want like a trade. Trump would at this point likely agree to giving them something worth far more than 5.7 billion in exchange for his wall.

So why don't they ask for something? The dems just don't seem to have anything on their wish list beyond screw Trump.

a reply to: Edumakated

I understand the double standard. It's funny, because while a few of my more fair liberal friends state that yes, the Dems used to say the same but they were wrong then, can change their minds, and Trump is wrong now, most of the media and most mainstream liberals consider anybody that EVER held such views to be a racist Nazi... But one can't have it both ways. If Trump and border controls, and supporting them, are "fascist, racist" etc and tars and feathers one irreparably, then those Dems that use to say such must now also be tarred and feathered.

originally posted by: Pyle

originally posted by: highvein
a reply to: Pyle

Dems dont want the wall,

You mean they don't want a wall now that Trump is President.

They certainly thought some type of barrier was needed. From their incredible powers of deductive reasoning they thought a fence would work much better at protecting the Nation.

We already have fences and walls on the border in places that they are necessary and can be readily manned. Dems have proposed funding to keep those going as is.

Homeland Security believes to many Older sections are ineffective.

How effective is this new border wall? On Sunday, when a violent mob of 1,000 people stormed our Southern border, we found the newly constructed portions of the wall to be very effective. In the area of the breach, a group of people tore a hole in the old landing mat fence constructed decades ago and pushed across the border. U.S. Border Patrol agents who responded to the area ultimately dispersed the crowd, which had become assaultive, and apprehended several individuals. All of the individuals were either apprehended or retreated into Mexico. That evening, the fence was repaired. There were no breaches along the newly constructed border wall areas.

Source

a reply to: toms54


That is why at the essence.

What I don't understand is why do they even think that it is their job stop the President from trying to secure the country.
Whether you are for it or against it doesn't matter, because it can only strengthen the security of the nation and our very own government.
The question that should be asked is why are they against better security? Whether we need it or not. At least it would be better, not worse.

You know why.

Democrats are getting extremely dangerous now.

Their liberal ideas are short winded and abuse tax payer money.

Illegal immigration is at crisis level in the u.s.

I'm beginning to think the average contributor to ATS is an ardent fan of Fox News. That's the best explanation of the skewed perspective that is rampant here these days. Critical thinking has gone the wayside. Fox News voices opinions not rooted in facts. That might be entertaining if so many did not use this to form their reality. But my point is not to bash ATS or Fox News, my point is how Americans including many of those here are allowing mainstream media to pollute their mind, to reframe the great debate into us vs them, Republicans vs Democrats, that kind of thing; when, in fact, neither party gives a rats azz for anyone who does not wield great power and money. Americans are being duped en masse, lock, stock and barrel. Wake up my fellow Americans. Take the red pill. The blue pill is toxic. We can take back America but only if we stand united. If we continue to live in this fantasy world created by the corporate proxy government ran by Democrats and Republicans, America will continue to evolve into a de facto third world country of haves vs have nots, and Earth will eventually shake off homo sapiens like a bad case of fleas. We will be okay, more or less, but our future offspring will have little chance. Is that what you want?

originally posted by: stosh64
a reply to: Pyle

Dems dont want the wall,

Since Trump became president and stated HE wants a wall.
Because before Trump became president they said they wanted a wall quite often.

It's the type of wall/barrier that's in question.

Not whether to have one or not.

Did you know the previous "wall" that is partially built was shut down by Homeland Security -- for being too expensive?

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: stosh64
a reply to: Pyle

Dems dont want the wall,

Since Trump became president and stated HE wants a wall.
Because before Trump became president they said they wanted a wall quite often.

It's the type of wall/barrier that's in question.

Not whether to have one or not.

Did you know the previous "wall" that is partially built was shut down by Homeland Security -- for being too expensive?

any facts and sources ?

🐓🐟

Seriously, anything Trump does Libtards REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

It's #ing insane, there is no more logic with Liberals.

originally posted by: Pyle

originally posted by: highvein
a reply to: Pyle

Dems dont want the wall,

You mean they don't want a wall now that Trump is President.

They certainly thought some type of barrier was needed. From their incredible powers of deductive reasoning they thought a fence would work much better at protecting the Nation.

We already have fences and walls on the border in places that they are necessary and can be readily manned. Dems have proposed funding to keep those going as is.

I get that, but I watched a tucker Carlson segment where he says to a Democratic that the democrats seem to just be suggesting doing the same status quo, but that’s not working fully.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: stosh64
a reply to: Pyle

Dems dont want the wall,

Since Trump became president and stated HE wants a wall.
Because before Trump became president they said they wanted a wall quite often.

It's the type of wall/barrier that's in question.

Not whether to have one or not.

Did you know the previous "wall" that is partially built was shut down by Homeland Security -- for being too expensive?

But, assuming that’s true that’s not the type of rational argument I’m hearing much of the time. It seems to be about how the Wall is racist and immoral. Appeals to emotions rather than pragmatics.

The Dems have to oppose the wall because they said Trump would fail to get one. That he was making false promises.

If he succeeds, then he's a promise keeper. (Which basically no president since Reagan has been able to pull off.) Then they'd have to completely accept defeat.

The trouble for them is that they've already lost this. By managing to unite the Republican party behind the idea, he has already done what people expected him to do. What they expected his promise to mean: that he would fight for a wall. He has put up a strong battle for it. If he loses now, it won't be seen as being that he didn't keep his promise. It will be because of them.

The Dems actually would be doing themselves a favor if they lose. Because if they win, they're now the villains.