California's New Pet law

originally posted by: Witness2008
a reply to: JAGStorm

I've been out of the field for many years. I have strong personal feelings about the subject and would love to see more responsibility all around. With that said however, I think that California tends to go off the deep end way too much. I think that the pet industry needs to do a better job of policing itself, and that includes the shelters.

Ex-Amish by chance? Just wondering cause your username. You know, the movie Witness?
Or is that a Jehovah's Witness username lol?

a reply to: generik
Thanks for that answer, makes sense now
Socialised healthcare here so nobody sues anyone for medical bills really, just loss of earnings etc. You don't get the big payouts here like in the US, more compensation for material loss.
I've never heard of anyone having insurance to cover their dog biting someone in my world, it's not really a thing in Britain.
Pet health insurance yes, but 3rd party liability insurance no.

originally posted by: 3n19m470
[

Ex-Amish by chance? Just wondering cause your username. You know, the movie Witness?

hahahaha
Witness cause the kid witnessed a crime.
not cause the kid was Amish


that was a great movie back in the day

Kelly McGillis was still smoking back then

a reply to: 3n19m470

I'm not Amish, but loved the movie. Oddly enough I was a JW for a while in my youth, my mother is a JW. However, neither are the reason for my user name.

a reply to: JAGStorm

California is taking away that choice from people. My guess is that people will leave the state to get their dogs.

1) You are correct. But it is California! California is now a one party state, Democrat and they are all about taking away choice from people. If you want "choice" not limited by Democrats, move to Texas!
2) Yes, people will go to other, more "free" states to buy their pets which basically is part of the Democrat plan........kill the pet store business.

This is what you get with a One Party State run by Democrats. Welcome to the future.

a reply to: DanDanDat

There really is no difference between most puppy mills and "reputable" breaders when it comes to the biggest problem facing these pet animals.

I had found that there was a huge difference between the mills and responsible breeders. First were the conditions of the facilities. The second was the respect that was payed to the breed. Some folks want certain traits and personalities. Hunting dogs are different from lap dogs, and even lap dogs vary in traits. Some folks are looking for a more docile pet like a Newfoundland, some prefer unfriendly types for protection. If we all had the same respect for animals that many of the responsible breeders had that I met we wouldn't have to worry so much about unwanted animals. Spay and neuter laws have had a huge and positive impact on the numbers.

I'd rather new laws go the other way, like the one our exiting governor just signed. It makes possible serious (prison time) punishment possible for cruelty to animals, INCLUDING pet stores and breeders. This means more punishment for puppy mill people.

a reply to: chiefsmom

That is actually happening in a few states. However, it seems that the cruelty has to reach a certain degree. And which animals is it o.k to be cruel to? Should cattle, chickens, hogs have protections? Up until the early 90's it was pretty hard to bring cruelty charges for abuse and neglect of horses. The federal and state regs needed to change, as horses in this country were classed as livestock. Once they were provided a protected class as companion animals by states then we could really go after folks for abuse.

Unfortunately most D.A's have little to no interest in prosecuting cruelty cases. We found that lots of media attention could sway some prosecutes.

a reply to: Witness2008

Happy New Year Witness.

Before I can respond I'd have to know who you are talking about when you are referring to responsible breeders. There are a few clasifucations of breeders besides puppy mills and not puppy mills. For a quick example; there is a difference between a normal family breading their cute Newfoundland cause they want to make a few bucks on the internet and breaders who bread work animals. They might both be "nice people" who have respect for their animal... but one is 99% more likely to be responsible about their breading.

There really isn't a difference in breads when it comes to docileness. That trait comes from when you nurture and trane the pet. Some dogs breads may be more energetic (needs to be walked), some may be less energetic, some might be bigger than others (can knock down your lamp with their tail) but they all can be docile. Its probably one of the biggest myths that some dogs are the "unfriendly" type and has everything to do with personal perception and nothing to do with reality.

For example some in this thread have been worried about pitbulls and their powerful jaw strength... their are a few breads that have a more powerful jaw than the pit ... the German Shepherd for example, yet most people don't have a problem with the Shepherds. And the real difference in jaw strength between pitbulls and less strong mid sized breeds isnt all that much. If you really get bit by any of them your going to feel it. But the pit "looks" scary and has a reputation as a fighting dog ... so the myth continues, and otherwise docile pitbulls rot in shelters.

However if you get an irresponsible back yard breader, who does not do the expensive genetic testing and back ground checks when they breed they can easily produce a Newfoundland with a battery of health issues, including ill temperament.

Locally the Pits are the problem they are at least 90% of what the shelters have. Rescue animals of certain breeds have a long waiting list, so really not available unless you go to a breeder.

A local Non Profit built a no kill animal shelter and it's huge and full to the brim within weeks of opening. No instead of having a few animals to feed and take care of they have probably close to 100. They even have a few horses but they go rather fast.

a reply to: DanDanDat

The responsible breeders are those that love and understand the breed that they are working with. They tend to keep track of the health and longevity of the breed lines. The reason that those types of breeders charge more is because of the time and expense that goes into maintaining healthy genetics. The individual who helps only one or two litters come into the world every year also tend to pay the stud fees and provide good vet care.

Puppy mills do none of that, even the daily housing and feeding is too much to bother with for them.

As far as the differences amongst the various breeds, there are plenty. Nurturing does play a small role but not enough to make a Springer Spaniel anything like a Cocker Spaniel.

a reply to: mikell

After losing my Ridgeback after being with him for 20 years, I focused on my female Ridgeback that was grieving in a most intense way. I think Lazarus hung around so much longer just to console her. She only made it 6 months before she too passed on, we had her for 13 years. My house seemed empty without my dogs, but I was no spring chicken and my mother lives with me, so we decided that big dogs would be too much for us to handle, we thought that tiny lap dogs would be a good choice, though we never had small dogs before.

During my search, which took over a year, the local shelters were teaming with pit bull mixes. Trying to find a small dog at ACC was a long and fruitless task. I went to at least 20 pet fairs and showings at the Petcos and Pet Supermarkets, and they always had the cute little dogs and the adorable puppies, but was usually using them to draw a crowd. They may have been asking for someone to sponsor the puppies and little ones, but the price tag kept your average person from buying.

They were quick to tell you if you couldn't afford their ridiculous prices for animals with unknown histories you shouldn't have an animal.

I hate social media but I started joining dog groups to see if I would have better luck. The word was out there that I was looking for at least 2 puppies, would consider one or two more if they were a bonded set. I was shocked when a breeder that found herself in a situation that required her to find immediate homes for her dogs, contacted me. Her Siberian Huskies were less than one year old, she had 5, and where she was moving, she could not take even one.

Her call came 3 days after I had given up on finding a dog. I had actually told my friends and family that the only way I would have another dog is that God dropped it in my lap.

I now have 5 Huskies. My Huskies arrived Christmas Day, one year ago. I think the breeder was a wonderful person that cared deeply for her dogs, that is why she gave them to someone that would love and care for them. She would not allow me to give her one dime. Rare gift in this new world we live in.

a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

5 Huskies sound awesome! I think they are one of the most gorgeous breeds. Just something majestic about those dogs.

They are too smart for their own good though. My friend had one and that dog escaped on a daily basis!
My other friend has one, and same story. Their husky got out and killed a neighbors chickens and they had to pay 80 per chicken or they would be fined a huge amount.

The problem with small breeders like me is we have two females no males. The one female is now 13. We are also related to most of the male Terriers in our breed in the state. I bred the mother in 2010 to a male dog from out West who was residing in my state on the East coast. It took a lot of phone calls to find him. Most people neuter and ruin their pure bred dog. This is the vets wanting to make money to pay off their student loans. Think twice before neutering a pure bred dog. The females are 15 lbs and very hard to get pregnant when you want to. They have to like the male dog. A Big dog such as a Labrador is not ever going to get a 15 lb dog pregnant. Those dogs show up from up to two miles away at my house. The big dogs are so sad to see how small my dog is, I call the owner to come get them. It took a year to get my female to like the male Terrier from Colorado. The owner was on the other side of the state. So it was a huge drive for me four times to get her pregnant for the one set of puppies. Small dogs have small liters of 4 and not all pupies live. A golden retriever can have 18 puppies. This is why those dogs cost much less. It is very hard to get a puppy from a family who breeds once every five years. My dogs are long livers so I decided I don't need three so we are not breeding again. It's impossible to not want to keep one. It was so much work to have puppies, it was the worst way to make money during the recession. Puppy farmers are good people, A lady farmer had the male. Their dogs are not as clean and healthy or mannered. It's hard for them to upkeep a group like a personal pet. But they are all healthy. The DNA was super! The male was a happy sweet dog. So it all worked out. Some dog breeds are ancient, you would have to leave California and be on a waiting list. It's nice to rescue, but with a family you want a predictable breed around your precious child that doesn't bite or can't take off an ear. We knew two someones whose black lab killed their other dog, and another one took off someone's nephews ear. I would never recommend a pit bull for a family. Small dogs are expensive. Best of luck to all of you! California does some very weird things out there.

a reply to: Phage

They are.

Wonderful dogs. Generally great, not just good, with children, endlessly patient. Good hunting/retrieving dogs, easily trained.

Actually, easily trained for just about anything.

a reply to: Witness2008

Show or Work Breeders who do all the proper DNA and other health testing (which is expensive) aren't bad people. They sometimes give the pups that they can't show or work away for free or below cost (ie it often costs them money to breed, they don't make much money). They always have predetermined homes for the pups befor they even breed. And they go out of their way to take back their pups and find them new homes when the person they gave the pup to originally can no longer take care of them. Most of the time the breeder will write up a contract with the new owner that explicitly says the pup must be brought back if the new owner can no longer take care of them. They are truly intrested in the well being of all the pups they breed.

The issue with this type of breeder is not their intention toward the pups they breed (which again is good); it is that they are taking homes away from the already over populated number of pets already out their.

They will argue that taking away these homes are unfortunate; but that keeping the breed going is more important. Or they will argue that their pup homes would never have gotten a shelter or rescue dog, so they are expanding the number of pet homes and not displacing shelter or rescue dogs. I do not agree with this line of thinking.

"backyard breeder" ... people who attempt to make a real profit off of their breeding activities almost never have the best intentions for their dogs or their pups. They almost never do the proper DNA and other helth testing as it is expensive and eats well into the profit margins, if not completely. They don't normally care where their pups wind up and never have families picked out before breeding. Many of these dogs often wind up in shelters because they can't always sell them all or the homes they do sell them to are not stable because the breeder does not do the proper vetting of the new family... Where do you think all those Pitbulls nobody wants come from? Backyard breeders who tried to make money off of their female and than found out they couldn't sell them all.

www.thesprucepets.com...

Than there are puppy mills and we know why they are bad enough to justify this new CA law.





For a normal pet owner their is no remarkable difference between a Springer Spaniel or a Cocker Spaniel except their appearance. Springer's have a bit more energy and are a more independent... but again the normal pet owner probably wouldn't even notice.

a reply to: JAGStorm

They are amazing, and you are right. They are way too smart for their own good. Mine wants to chase anything that moves, but if they are smart enough to stay still, they lose interest.They show no interest in the birds or chickens, so far.

They each have their own very distinct personality. All but one is vocal. But let Bellah find herself without her humans and her pack, and she will sound like 20 hounds from hell.

They are not a breed for new dog owners, or for those with little patience or no sense of humor. They are big clowns and great negotiators.

They keep me busy, and have help me lose 20 pounds. So I guess I can call them my personal trainers.

I wasn't able to find the dog I wanted in the animal shelters. I think it will eventually back fire if people are forced to choose between a shelter animal or no animal at all.

Like everything thing else in this world, there is a good side and a bad side. Sometimes we are too quick to paint things with too broad a brush.

Couldn't help but show a pic of the brat pack.

It is so hard to get all of them to stay still at the same time. I am no photographer and they make lousy models, so this is the best I can do at the moment.

Who would have thought this group would end up as rescues?

I am so blessed to have them.

originally posted by: NightSkyeB4Dawn

Couldn't help but show a pic of the brat pack.

It is so hard to get all of them to stay still at the same time. I am no photographer and they make lousy models, so this is the best I can do at the moment.

Who would have thought this group would end up as rescues?

I am so blessed to have them.

It would be a brave burglar to break into your home lol
They look lovely, bet you pay a fortune in food for them each week!
I only have a cat, I'd love a dog but working I just wouldn't feel right leaving it 8 hours a day so I've never got one. One day when I can fit a dog into my life I will...the rescue place near me has all types of dogs not just pitbulls.

Two of the best dogs I ever had were shelter dogs .
Both were just at a year old when I found them .
the first almost 25 years agaio was a Australian Shepard ( with tail still in place )
Intelligence would be dog genius lv . Loyal to a falt .
Rip Midnight star . lived 14 years
second Sport a mix of boarder collie and dash-hound Funny looking long with short legs .
Male we took him as the shelter begged us so they would not have to put him down .
I Could not stand the dog then a miracle happened First I tried giving the dog away Three times I tried the first two times the people lived about 2 miles from my house . The dog came back both times I figer these people just cant handle him so found the 3rd person who lived over 20 miles away > took the dog downtown to meet them late one night they took the dog .
two weeks later sport shows up at the door thinner and ragged looking . He looks at me then i realized he has been taking care of my youngest son This was his human and he was determined to be with him come hell or high water .
Thing is my son was a sickly child untill sport started taking care of him . How I can not answer I only know my sons health improved by leaps and bounds .

So sport stayed as my son grew he waited for the bus he followed him every ware .
I may not have liked the dog but I respected him .
Rip sport my you rest in peace My son is grown now and i have 3 grand kids from him thanks in p[art to a Male dog who was of all things a nurse dog .

These two died over 12 years agaio but will be remembered for mine and my sons life .
Recently My sons - wife's - foster mom found my sons wife after 15 years they started being around alot this women was dieing of cancer .
She had a dog her name is molly she is sitting right beside me now as my sons wifes reminder of this Good women who was there for her when she was young .
Molly is a dog genius as well . reset in peace for my sons - wifes ((( foster mom She was a good women .

Lastly Lilia Is a service dog ( saint Barnard ) Huge we just got her last week again saved from a fate of the pound .
Poor thing has a rod in her leg very well mannered heck my youngest grandson is 10 months and this 180 pound dog is extremely gentile with him .

She has a place here now .
Buying a dog is to easy finding one with heart you can put no value on .