US defense intelligence warns of AI-human hybrid soldiers from China

I realize that this use of technology will change everything on Earth as humans can't help but change their environment to suit themselves. However, it is a move to physically change humans to suit their environment, rather than changing the environment to conform to human physical needs.

The prospect of being able to change the human to suit the environment is IMO a move toward species survival. We could tweak our bodies for perfect integration into any environment no matter how extreme it is. Polar, tropical, desert, underwater, in space or on other planets, we could better survive due to this technology and how it is being used for military purposes.

Would we still be human after all that? We would likely be variations on Homo Sapiens, perhaps broadly we would become Homo Sapiens Augmentus or other variations. I can foresee a future where a cast system develops with the unaltered Homo Sapiens Sapiens being at the bottom of the social structure.

My personal opinion is that we are seeing the beginings of an AI brain machine interface arms race. I think we are going to start seeing suprhumans which will just be a side effect of the AI growing within humans.

Just think of upgrades and how often new technology comes out for our computers and cellphones.

I would imagine people would need to update their neural network nano lace or nano mesh every 5 years or so. How often do we buy computers and cell phones?

How long till the hardware is outdated and needs to be replaced. We used to use floppy disc's then we moved to CD's now we are all digital download.

Question on my mind is how do they upgrade nanotech? How to remove the old neural network with a new neural network?

I would imagine that there would be some type of removal device which would pull the nanotech out of your head. Or perhaps they will just build over old tech without removing it.

Found this which I think is the program which may have been a success if they have achieved two way telepathy with 3 jets. In the article it is saying it seeks to develop a two way interface however in the OP they claim to have already done this.

www.darpa.mil...

The Neural Engineering System Design (NESD) program seeks to develop high-resolution neurotechnology capable of mitigating the effects of injury and disease on the visual and auditory systems of military personnel. In addition to creating novel hardware and algorithms, the program conducts research to understand how various forms of neural sensing and actuation might improve restorative therapeutic outcomes.

The focus of the program is development of advanced neural interfaces that provide high signal resolution, speed, and volume data transfer between the brain and electronics, serving as a translator for the electrochemical language used by neurons in the brain and the ones and zeros that constitute the language of information technology. The program aims to develop an interface that can read 106 neurons, write to 105 neurons, and interact with 103 neurons full-duplex, a far greater scale than is possible with existing neurotechnology.

a reply to: FormOfTheLord

I have strong suspicions that the agencies like DARPA (and the non-public agencies with similar, but deeper & more covert taskings) have been long searching not only for a hardware version of this sort of technology integration of brain-machine hybrid, but also for an adaptive soft version of the tech - using signals only (via satellite) to directly interface with the brain via its pre-existing & wholly natural biological 'machinery', which in some respects is already perfectly adapted for this task. Signals remotely interacting with the visual & auditory sensing & decision-making centres using a sort of binary switching analogue.

If you consider, for example, the overwatch/ command & control capacity of the single executive in the movie Bladerunner 2049 - calling in sophisticated drone support of almost perfect precision guided missile assault, to protect a ground asset in a severely compromised situation? I believe that such capacity may be developed so as to be jointly held in a remote signals capacity as described above, by both the overwatch agent (who may possess a technological neural implant) & the asset on the ground, perhaps augmented by an AI 'ally' system which checks & refines the human decision tree responses. If that sort of system doesn't already exist (I suspect it does) then it will do within 20 years.

And how easy will this computer-human interface be to hack? To jam, to overload?

When people become used to artificial enhancements how quickly do they fall apart when the enhancement stops working?

Just ask a teenager to hand over their cell phone and walk the three miles to school.

Try taking facebook away from someone. They can't function and begin to panic.

originally posted by: Whatsthisthen
And how easy will this computer-human interface be to hack? To jam, to overload?

When people become used to artificial enhancements how quickly do they fall apart when the enhancement stops working?

Just ask a teenager to hand over their cell phone and walk the three miles to school.

Try taking facebook away from someone. They can't function and begin to panic.

You may be onto something and perhaps we civilians will be getting this technology for a few reasons.

1. I think we may be going foward with one upmanship with this tech because its turned into a global arms race with a countries like China as well as Russia.

2. It is very difficult to advance a technology that few people use. However once used by the masses real advancements can really be seen. For example the internet has really changed once it became available for civillian use. It became much better, and the department of defence now has increadible cyber warfare capability they didnt have before and probably would never have made if they didnt realease the tech to the public.

Think what would happen if the internet was taken away from us, people would have no idea what to do with themselves. I remember when there was no suchthing as the internet, there were no cell phones, and the best video games were in this place called an arcade.

I would compare the greateat developments they have now to the accomplishment of the game pong. Look how far games have come since then.

What am I trying to say? This is just the tip of the iceberg for nanotechnologies within the human body, this type of innovation wont ever stop once it gets started.

Whats the final goal?
My guess is they want to hack into and control reality itself with the power of the human mind.

originally posted by: FormOfTheLord
Below is some more information on the current discussion on Chinas development of human hybrids. I think that we are now seeing a new kind of arms race one that may be based on superhuman AI biotechnology and nanotechnology within future humans. I am starting to wonder how far this type of progression will go? Will materials being used change over time? Truly an amazing shift in technology to being more internal rather than external.

This article below was interesting to me because they began to talk about the biotechnology changes that may go hand in hand with AI progression. So supersolders with super bodies brains that are hooked up to technology as well. This stuff is straight out of comics and sci fi. Very interesting stuff!

Defense Intel Chief Worried About Chinese ‘Integration of Human and Machines’
www.defenseone.com...

Chinese efforts to teach machines to think — through emerging technologies like neural nets, a form of artificial intelligence — represent phases of a process that concludes with “the next step, the integration of human and machines,” Ashley said.

The Chinese government is funding academic research into brain-computer interfaces, according to Elsa Kania, a fellow with the Technology and National Security Program at the Center for a New American Security (and occasional Defense One contributor).
“The PLA’s Academy of Military Science has focused on advancing military-civil fusion (or civil-military integration, in brain science research, including to explore options to enhance human capabilities for battlefield perception and decision-making.”

That includes everything from implants that enable human “wetware” (brains) to interact with and share digital information with hardware (computers), to gene-editing through tools like CRISPR. Such work may one day allow China to grow superior troops, or turn regular soldiers into super ones.

Its cool that China is working on that, but just above you quoted DARPA saying we already have this technology. We have a BCI capable of allowing a human to control 3 drones at the same time. This is what DARPA is saying publicly. Elon Musk has an entire company dedicated to this very thing. Imagine the things they have behind closed doors, that they dont talk about in public? DARPA and the military have not just been sitting on their thumbs while the rest of the world jetpacks into the future.

originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: FormOfTheLord

They might have the tech to engineer super soldiers but it will still take them 20 years until their 'weapons' aren't just out of control teenagers.

Obviously you never came across the "Chinese Girl Scouts". Their "kids" arent the same as ours. They don't have all this...freedom, to let their emotions frolic this way and that.

"Out of control teenagers" LoL...thats a good one.

But...but, "everyone is the same" right?

I don't know if there's at least some hot air with this.

People have been hybriding with machines for ages. Take a man with a gun. The gun is a machine. Put a man in a tank. The tank is a machine.

It looks like things will change, but if that change is going to be significant, is another matter.

originally posted by: FormOfTheLord

originally posted by: Whatsthisthen
And how easy will this computer-human interface be to hack? To jam, to overload?

When people become used to artificial enhancements how quickly do they fall apart when the enhancement stops working?

Just ask a teenager to hand over their cell phone and walk the three miles to school.

Try taking facebook away from someone. They can't function and begin to panic.

You may be onto something and perhaps we civilians will be getting this technology for a few reasons.

1. I think we may be going foward with one upmanship with this tech because its turned into a global arms race with a countries like China as well as Russia.

2. It is very difficult to advance a technology that few people use. However once used by the masses real advancements can really be seen. For example the internet has really changed once it became available for civillian use. It became much better, and the department of defence now has increadible cyber warfare capability they didnt have before and probably would never have made if they didnt realease the tech to the public.

Think what would happen if the internet was taken away from us, people would have no idea what to do with themselves. I remember when there was no suchthing as the internet, there were no cell phones, and the best video games were in this place called an arcade.

I would compare the greateat developments they have now to the accomplishment of the game pong. Look how far games have come since then.

What am I trying to say? This is just the tip of the iceberg for nanotechnologies within the human body, this type of innovation wont ever stop once it gets started.

Whats the final goal?
My guess is they want to hack into and control reality itself with the power of the human mind.

Yeah, I remember pinball machines, they were wonderful.

I think what you said in number two above is (horribly) spot on. It never occurred to me that consumerism could serve as a development tool with an almost unlimited budget. That is just wrong.

Your parallel between computers and "mind chipping" is very apt.

And the final goal?

Hmmm, do "they" have a "final goal"?

How far can a "they" plan?

It is hard to imagine a mind that calculating.

originally posted by: PokeyJoe

originally posted by: FormOfTheLord
Below is some more information on the current discussion on Chinas development of human hybrids. I think that we are now seeing a new kind of arms race one that may be based on superhuman AI biotechnology and nanotechnology within future humans. I am starting to wonder how far this type of progression will go? Will materials being used change over time? Truly an amazing shift in technology to being more internal rather than external.

This article below was interesting to me because they began to talk about the biotechnology changes that may go hand in hand with AI progression. So supersolders with super bodies brains that are hooked up to technology as well. This stuff is straight out of comics and sci fi. Very interesting stuff!

Defense Intel Chief Worried About Chinese ‘Integration of Human and Machines’
www.defenseone.com...

Chinese efforts to teach machines to think — through emerging technologies like neural nets, a form of artificial intelligence — represent phases of a process that concludes with “the next step, the integration of human and machines,” Ashley said.

The Chinese government is funding academic research into brain-computer interfaces, according to Elsa Kania, a fellow with the Technology and National Security Program at the Center for a New American Security (and occasional Defense One contributor).
“The PLA’s Academy of Military Science has focused on advancing military-civil fusion (or civil-military integration, in brain science research, including to explore options to enhance human capabilities for battlefield perception and decision-making.”

That includes everything from implants that enable human “wetware” (brains) to interact with and share digital information with hardware (computers), to gene-editing through tools like CRISPR. Such work may one day allow China to grow superior troops, or turn regular soldiers into super ones.

Its cool that China is working on that, but just above you quoted DARPA saying we already have this technology. We have a BCI capable of allowing a human to control 3 drones at the same time. This is what DARPA is saying publicly. Elon Musk has an entire company dedicated to this very thing. Imagine the things they have behind closed doors, that they dont talk about in public? DARPA and the military have not just been sitting on their thumbs while the rest of the world jetpacks into the future.

I find it almost funny that we believe that the USA should be the only ones with the capability to create this kind of tech. When we do it its great but if someone else does the very same thing there is a sense of worry that they will try to dominate the world. We cant let them do that because thats our job LOL.

One point is development of the said human interface nanotechnology, and another point is being able to defend and create various counter measures to different types of technology and this is where it really gets interesting.

How do you defend your country against a grey goo attack?
With a better grey goo attack, with electro magnetic pulses, with radio frequency, with sabotage, with biological viruses, with hacking them, with various methods to stop enemy innovation of such technologies, with bombs to put your enemies into the stone age, etc. etc.

I know thinking of defence is scary stuff however I am sure they are thinking about this stuff.

If one thing doesnt work maybe another thing will. The department of defence probably cant just have one size fits all when it comes to defence so they know they need to start to innovate more if they want to win the hypothetical war of the future.

Yes I would also have to agree with you on your point that the department of defence wont just sit on their thumbs. I think there must be at least 50-100 years past us in this kind of techology. However due to dogma I think many of the programs have been sidelined and have not been funded due to various fears mentioned by various great thinkers like Drexler & Michio Kaku. But by raising awareness and alarms that they are in a human interface nanotechnology arms race many of those old sidelined programs may get the funding they needed and they may be improved upon.
For example here is a sci-fi list of ideas from popular tv shows and movies I think they probably have in some form or another but in secret:

Brainstorm (Able to share a memory and feeling)
The Matrix (Able to download information into a brain)
Antman (Able to shrink ones perception down into the quantum verse)
Star Trek TV Show (Able to change ones perception of time)
Flash (Resonate at a frequency invisible to the human eye)
Inception (Able to create a world of dreams and share that world with others)
Dr Strange (Able to project into the astral world)
Iron man Extremis Comic Book (placed a mesh of nanotechnology throught his body and bones)
Paycheck (To see the future in accordance with your actions)
Luke Cage comic book & tv show (Able to crate steel hard skin and muscles with exo muscle/diamond nanotubes)
Deadshot (Never misses a shot)
Reed Richards (Able to innovate and planway ahead using super genius)
Terminator (The final Nanobot terminator)
Live die repeat (Able to move ones counsiousness from one point in time to another fixed point in time)
Men in Black (able to predict billions of outcomes for each action and choose the best one in real time)
Grey Goo (The ability to transform the entire world with nanotechnology)
Yadda yadda yadda etc etc skys the limit

Some interesting articles I came across on this topic. They mention that China does have a long term advantage due to their policies and numbers. Also I found it interesting that the military is deeply concerned with our scientists lack of motivation when it comes to building weapons and working with the military. They are also arent interested in advancing AI for combat at any level. There is also a race to gather together the most brilliant minds for projects, and most of those very intelligent minds are quickly swooped up by big civilian tech companies and given very high salaries 300k-400k so the military cannot compete with that kind of salary. In China this is not the case there is no real choice if the government says you do something you have to do it. That seems to be what the main concern is Americas strong sense of ethics, freedom of choice, small numbers of high level scientists, and competition isnt helping startups and companies win an AI arms race it may be hindering progress.

Also I think our various belief structures play a large role in our willingness to create an advanced AI connection literaly within the human brain. The very idea of augmentating humans is sacreligious to many and some believe that the brain machine interface is mentioned in bible as those who recieve the mark of the beast. Others think we should not play god and we should not change ourselves. However the Chinese dont really believe any religious dogmas and there is nothing stopping them from innovating themselves into literal gods. The whole morality immorality argument of it I think falls flat and I doubt they see a real reason not to push ahead.

Now world leaders are saying whoever has the best AI will rule the world. The question is which countries will actually allow superintelligent AI superhumans?

How China could beat the West in the deadly race for AI weapons
www.wired.co.uk...
“These naive hippy developers from Silicon Valley don’t understand – the CIA should force them,” says Gaycken, founder of the digital society institute at ESMT, a Berlin-based business school.

Why China will win the global race for complete AI dominance
www.wired.co.uk...
“The State Council paper laid out China’s desire to be a hub of AI innovation by 2030, and these papers have teeth in terms of very strong local execution,” says Kai-Fu Lee, a key figure in the Chinese technology industry

Here is an interesting article that talks about the darpa barain machine technology and gives more information on the program. It also goes into some predictions by Terrence McKenna and his prediction of brain machine telepathy. It may be human destiny.

McKenna predicted machine-human telepathy almost 30 years ago, saying, “Well then it seems to me the thing you want to become is naked linguistic intent – pure intent toward communication. And so by mapping the linguistic possibility onto a topological continuum, and then processing it through computers, we actually create a true mirror for our own mind. And so to look upon this and to share it with other people, is to participate in a true form of telepathy. And I think this true, boundary-dissolving telepathy uniting us all into one family should be the goal of the cyberspatial community.”

While McKenna saw “linguistic possibilities” processed through computers as being a technology “uniting us all into one family” telepathically, this technology is now being weaponized by DARPA.

Read More: Terence Mckenna’s ‘cyberdelic’ predictions for Virtual Reality 25 years on

Defense One reports that the technology can be used to detect threats and how to counteract them by communicating with drone swarms through a BCI.

“We’ve scaled it to three [aircraft], and have full sensory [signals] coming back. So you can have those other planes out in the environment and then be detecting something and send that signal back into the brain,” said Sanchez via Defense One.

So I think a big question is which side has the better brain machine interface China or the USA?

Which side has superior nanobots and nanobot technologies?

originally posted by: PokeyJoe

originally posted by: FormOfTheLord
Below is some more information on the current discussion on Chinas development of human hybrids. I think that we are now seeing a new kind of arms race one that may be based on superhuman AI biotechnology and nanotechnology within future humans. I am starting to wonder how far this type of progression will go? Will materials being used change over time? Truly an amazing shift in technology to being more internal rather than external.

This article below was interesting to me because they began to talk about the biotechnology changes that may go hand in hand with AI progression. So supersolders with super bodies brains that are hooked up to technology as well. This stuff is straight out of comics and sci fi. Very interesting stuff!

Defense Intel Chief Worried About Chinese ‘Integration of Human and Machines’
www.defenseone.com...

Chinese efforts to teach machines to think — through emerging technologies like neural nets, a form of artificial intelligence — represent phases of a process that concludes with “the next step, the integration of human and machines,” Ashley said.

The Chinese government is funding academic research into brain-computer interfaces, according to Elsa Kania, a fellow with the Technology and National Security Program at the Center for a New American Security (and occasional Defense One contributor).
“The PLA’s Academy of Military Science has focused on advancing military-civil fusion (or civil-military integration, in brain science research, including to explore options to enhance human capabilities for battlefield perception and decision-making.”

That includes everything from implants that enable human “wetware” (brains) to interact with and share digital information with hardware (computers), to gene-editing through tools like CRISPR. Such work may one day allow China to grow superior troops, or turn regular soldiers into super ones.

Its cool that China is working on that, but just above you quoted DARPA saying we already have this technology. We have a BCI capable of allowing a human to control 3 drones at the same time. This is what DARPA is saying publicly. Elon Musk has an entire company dedicated to this very thing. Imagine the things they have behind closed doors, that they dont talk about in public? DARPA and the military have not just been sitting on their thumbs while the rest of the world jetpacks into the future.

Well the USA is saying they can do that publicly I wonder what they can really do!
Also I am wondering what kinds of AI human hybrid technology China may have in its possession.

Basically I guess its all about which side has the better cyborgs and AI.

Wanted to share this info and will update with additional resources;

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

towardsdatascience.com...


Can't find it at moment, but there is an older tread topic called DARPA mind/brain machine interface, with a logo of a brain with one lobe organic and other is circuitry.

It's not coming up in my search...

originally posted by: ADVISOR
Wanted to share this info and will update with additional resources;

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

towardsdatascience.com...


Can't find it at moment, but there is an older tread topic called DARPA mind/brain machine interface, with a logo of a brain with one lobe organic and other is circuitry.

It's not coming up in my search...

Good links

However if this is how far they are publicly saying they are they must be way past all of this in reality IMHO.
The military is usually ahead of any civilian tech by a few decades minimum.
So when we talk about cyber war we are probably talking about our secret hive mind of cyborgs hooked up to countless quantum computers and super computers all networked wirelessly into a global think tank.

I would imagine 100,000s of soldiers hooked up to cerebro on steroids.

a reply to: FormOfTheLord

I find all this very disturbing and doesn't give me great hopes for the future either...! Thanks for info and thread..

I think they may be a lot further on than we may think. The next 20 years is gonna be one hell of a ride..

As for how far the progression will go.. Well Musk is already making neurolace so humans can assimilate and link in with AI. Thats pretty scary stuff!

And who knows about the stuff they don't tell us about......!

originally posted by: fluff007
a reply to: FormOfTheLord

I find all this very disturbing and doesn't give me great hopes for the future either...! Thanks for info and thread..

I think they may be a lot further on than we may think. The next 20 years is gonna be one hell of a ride..

As for how far the progression will go.. Well Musk is already making neurolace so humans can assimilate and link in with AI. Thats pretty scary stuff!

And who knows about the stuff they don't tell us about......!

I think the technology must be leaps and bounds from what is in the public view on all sides. I wonder what it would take for this tech to improve the standard of living for common people.

The implications are vast and fundamentaly changes the current premise of what we consider to be human is.

Interesting thread but I think the future of ground warfare will be combat drones. Why risk a human at all, and drones could be tougher, cheaper, made faster and with less political fallout by avoiding any human casualties on the friendly side.
You could have some human control but far away out of harms way like they do with airborne combat drones now.
China could probably build an army of drones faster and cheaper in huge factories, than trying to use some kind of human hybrid soldier.
Maybe the first step is human hybrid soldiers then next fully artificial drone soldiers. Some kind of terminator thing roaming around, then super AI and Skynet. We are doomed, doomed I say...