Will the wall stop illegals?

originally posted by: roadgravel

originally posted by: dojozen

might turn out in a 100 years, Mexico is the one trying to keep the united states out of Mexico...tide is always turning,.

Another reason Mexico should pay.

a reply to: roadgravel

sure going to suck if china, russia, nk and a few other countries decide to send in the drone and robot armies and everyone is stuck in the states and cannot get out because of the wall. will make their job a lot easier?

Mexico be fine with paying for the wall, if it keeps the war out of their back yard.


Future war, might change everything?

Going to be hard to get over that wall with some ai tanks and drones, robots, etc, chasing people trying to flee and escape...

Wall will be real handy dandy to keep the threat of latin american invading the usa...for sure...though they may not be the biggest threat.

Everyone has Autonomous weapons now, bots, drones, you name it,,, do you really think humans stand a chance against AI>

A dystopian future in which killer robots are massacring innocents is ... A small drone equipped with facial recognition technology could ... In my forthcoming book, Army of None: Autonomous Weapons and ... Russia, China, and the United States are all racing ahead on autonomy and artificial intelligence.

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: blueman12
a reply to: DBCowboy

How will a miltbillion dollar wall with armed patrol be cost effective? Do you have any non-bias numbers?

The US is spending 135 billion on illegals in the US now.

If a wall reduces those costs, then it would pay for itself.


But you probably don't care about the 135 billion in welfare for illegal aliens, you just want to panic over the 5 billion for proposed spending on the wall.

It's beyond me as to why people can't comprehend this. Do we just sit back and do nothing and watch illegal immigrant cost to the taxpayers continue to climb? 63% of non-citizen households are getting some form of welfare compared to 33% for natives, that's a huge burden on taxpayers. These illegals and their kids are going to be taking jobs away from US citizens and driving pay scales into the dirt, as they already have and many of you are ok with that? How long are you people going to ignore the homeless citizens and vets that desperately need help in your own communities?

Some of you can't see past your twisted agendas to see that we have our own problems to solve, but you don't give a snip about that do you? As long as you and your good intentions can pat yourself on the back for saving the world, regardless of repercussions to others, your all fuzzy and warm? I find that mentality disgusting and pathetic.

The kicker is.......99.9% of the illegals coming here don't GAF about you (the people helping them) or this country, they're only here for one thing and one thing only, MONEY and FREE CHIT.

If it's actually built and it's not just a 4' fence, it's obviously going to keep people out. I'm not sure how anyone can actually deny that.

If you put my back against a wall (haha, see what I did there?) I'd probably be more for the wall than against it as I do believe we've got some things to tidy up here in the good ole USA before we take on more financial burdens. I've had illegal immigration/abuse of the system negatively affect me in my own life*, so there could be some bias there.

I think something that should be a concern is those cartels who made billions off smuggling weed into the country must have been taking a financial hit for a while now. I haven't seen Mexican brick-weed in YEARS and that used to be all you could find. I assume pot is going to be decriminalized on a Federal level sooner than later which is pretty much going to end pot from Mexico coming into the US. Smugglers don't have an emotional attachment to the goods they smuggle and their product will change from pot to people. I would expect an increase in human trafficking as a result. However, I also know that we're not really going to give a sh!t about that as long as it's not Americans being trafficked, so, I suppose it's a moot point.

*- I used to work in the restaurant business as a chef. I have no clue what program this was, but essentially, these Brazilian guys were in this sponsorship program that paid half their salary, if I remember correctly. It was supposed to help them assimilate/find jobs easier. These guys were already working when I started, I was actually hired to be their relief because they were working 80 hours a week, nonstop. After a few weeks of not getting my promised 40 hours + O.T., I kept asking the head chef what the deal was, I was essentially blown off until I took it higher up the chain and was told by management, "It costs us less to have these guys work 80 hours a week than it does to have you work 25 hours a week. It has absolutely nothing to do with job performance". I REALLY wish I knew what program this was because it was complete BULLSH!T. These guys had ZERO intention of staying in the US and are now comfortably living on the farms they purchased in Brazil, while working here in the US.

a reply to: mtnshredder

read my post above, while writing and missed yours,... their may be a bigger agenda at hand...

Look at who created the problem in latin america and the reason majority are seeing to go to the USA.

If the USA had not been micro and macro managing them overtly and covertly, for the past 200 years, might not have this problem today.

killing everyone and taking their land, and then building a wall to keep those out, who have been subject to USA control... does not justify ownership of the land and in many cases, theft of property and murder is a crime,

originally posted by: dojozen
a reply to: mtnshredder

read my post above, while writing and missed yours,... their may be a bigger agenda at hand...

Look at who created the problem in latin america and the reason majority are seeing to go to the USA.

If the USA had not been micro and macro managing them overtly and covertly, for the past 200 years, might not have this problem today.

killing everyone and taking their land, and then building a wall to keep those out, who have been subject to USA control... does not justify ownership of the land and in many cases, theft of property and murder is a crime,

You can't blame all of their woes on America, that's nonsense. You obviously have no clue as to how corrupt some of these countries are or is that America's fault too? How about we start with their corrupt cultures first and then go from there.

You can only help those who want to help themselves. Ultimately they are responsible for the situation they're in. I am not their problem. If you want to assume responsibility for all their BS go for it, but I get sick and tired of so called "victims" blaming me for all their fallacies and shortcomings. I don't owe them jack.

a reply to: mtnshredder
i changed out a meme, so might help put it into perspective...

yes, suggesting that all the problems in latin american, is a result of the United States...


If the United States had not been meddling.,... think things would have been a lot different.

this is the direct result of USA involvement.

a reply to: dojozen

Those countries were corrupt long before any american boots ever set foot on their soil. Some of those countries may also be better off than if we had not been involved. Hard to say for better or worse how they would be different. You certainly can't blame the US for all their problems today.

a reply to: dojozen

Hey man, all - or at least some of that stuff might be true, in fact, it probably is true. But I think it's a bit lame, a bit counter-productive to have the victim mentality. People can still make it anyway, if there's real adversity, i'd hope it's viewed as a challenge, rather than an excuse for defeat - in whatever yours, or an individual South American persons struggle in their life may be.

a reply to: Assemble

just trying to empathize with them...

a reply to: mtnshredder
before is one thing, after is another..better or worse?

Vietnam better or worse?

Privatization by United States owned corporations and government protection $$$.
It is clear who is responsible for the violence....banana republic ring a bell, or are they leaving that out of the history books now?

More recently, what happens when bechtel takes over the water and charges 25% of the average income to have it and people have to make choice between sending their children to school or paying for water?

The Cochabamba Water War was a series of protests that took place in Cochabamba, Bolivia's ..... "Bechtel battles against dirt-poor Bolivia: Nation severed water deal after hefty rate increases led to protests" · "Cochabamba's Water Rebellion ...

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: blueman12
a reply to: DBCowboy

How will a miltbillion dollar wall with armed patrol be cost effective? Do you have any non-bias numbers?

The US is spending 135 billion on illegals in the US now.

If a wall reduces those costs, then it would pay for itself.


But you probably don't care about the 135 billion in welfare for illegal aliens, you just want to panic over the 5 billion for proposed spending on the wall.

The wall will definitely cost more that the initial 5 billion. My suggestion, as always, was to reform our current illegal laws across the country in order to reduce incentives to move here, and payouts to illegals.

Why not just reform the entire system that costs us money and gives incentives for illegals to come here? No incentives, then why would they come here?

Honestly.. a wall just seems like a brutish band-aid for the problem that have existed. Reform would fix everything if done properly....

At least, in my opinion..

a reply to: blueman12


yea, turning the USA into a Prison and lot of idiots do not even have a clue....

How can they round everyone up, if got 100,000's trying to get away down on the southern border, if something like this ever came true?

The FEMA camps conspiracy theory holds that the U.S. Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) is planning to imprison US citizens in concentration camps. This is typically described as following the imposition of martial law in the United States after a major disaster or crisis.

Think about it, way to many other ways to stop immigration than a wall...

That wall may come back to haunt many, bite a lot of folks on their asses, oh so very many.

T= REX84 ring a bell?

something about the wall is just a little too fishy...



Think lot of people are starting to loose focus of the bigger picture and got tunnel vision...

Thinking the wall is going to protect them...well true it might serve a purpose, other than the intended.

How are they going to get out, if the are blocked in like sheep..?

Not going to be pretty with the new DHS drones and robots rounding them all up who try and escape..

Oh yea, this is fantasy land, that will never happen in a million years....

That wall goes up, you think everyone from the USA is going to be welcomed in South or Central American anymore?
some may not care who are in favor of the wall, because they never plan to go there.

Maybe a few, the rest if they have nerve to show up, better sleep with one eye open, as i have a strong feeling the resentment caused by the wall, will make latin american off limits for the majority of United States Citizens...theft, murders of foreigners will increase...imo

While the wall may please some, think it may be counter productive in the long run and eventually be more than just an eye sore.

The op has asked if the wall will stop illegal immigrants.

After spending a bit of time to think on this here is the answer:

Initially it will only slow down the number of people who cross via overland, but will not have the impact as it is touted to be. And be a costly reminder, of a lie that was told to the people, to only amplify their fears.

The first thing is that the current estimates is that the wall will cost initially will be between 12 to 21 billion dollars. However, most experts agree that it is going to cost way more. But that is only the cost of the construction, and does not take into account the lawsuits, and then there is the cost of the upkeep. They never tell us about that cost, and no one will know, what that cost is. And it will have to be monitored, and that is the money as well that will be required, to patrol and repair, on a regular basis. Nor will this span the entire boarder, due to way the terrain is. A wall cannot go through water, and then there are the mountains and other terrains that makes such either very difficult or impossible.

The next thing to consider, are how the illegal immigrants get into the country. A large majority flew into the USA, and just stayed there. Combined with the tunnels that go under the existing barriers, and then there are the ladders that are designed to go over and allow for others to cross over such. And then there are those who come via the waterways as well.

But that is all inconsequential when one considers some of the major causes of the current migration from central America, was caused by the USA, in short it is our mess, that the foreign policy of the US. And the mess was started way back.

And there is one detail, that no one wants to admit to, and that is congress, and politicians are really not interested in solving this issue. No, they are not, cause it is too good of a hot button issue, to use. Politicians, on both sides, use this issue like a part of a smoke and mirrors, to divert the publics attention from another hot button topic, that could really inflame the public. I find it hard to believe, as we all should, that in all of this time, since 1953 that the federal government could not have ended this long before, created sensible laws and in short curb it down to where it would not be the monster that it is today.

a reply to: sdcigarpig

It will curb the influx yes, though sure going to be tough, if ever is a emergency need for a mass exodus, like war hits the USA and got lot of people wanting to flee the bombs and radiation from the nukes and Mexico barricades the entry points.

a reply to: dojozen

I think it will only impact for a very short time and then will resume. If anything people are very resourceful, and it is getting more and more complex, along where finding the breeches at the border is getting harder to detect.

Many of those who provide such, often have back up plans and other means, beyond what is discovered, and in some cases it appears as though such is often shown, just to act like a smoke and mirrors, diversion, from the other things.

But as I stated, the cost of upkeep, along with the requirements for say monitoring and upkeep are not discussed. Apart from say people trying to take such down, there will be the simple forces of nature that will weaken the barrier on a regular basis.

a reply to: sdcigarpig

There are many border fences in Eastern Europe that have proven and are proving effective.

a reply to: sdcigarpig

Yea, the wind blow just right, might be able to sky dive in.

a reply to: Assemble

As I recalled from history, those fences in Eastern Europe were not placed up to keep people out, but to keep the population in and to stop people from leaving the area's under the control of the Soviet Union. And in many other countries with modern day walls that are there to "Protect" their citizens, there are the stories of horrors that are coming out. North Korea?

How about Palestine? How are those walls working out for Israel?

a reply to: sdcigarpig

I'm not talking about history, i'm talking about now

en.wikipedia.org...

Attempted border entries have fallen since the barrier was constructed. During the month of September 2015 there was a total number of 138,396 migrant entries, and within the first two weeks of November the average daily number of intercepted migrants decreased to only 15, which is a daily reduction of more than 4,500

Eastern European countries are quite patriotic and they don't want immigrants coming in to their countries. There are loads of these fences

Hungarian border barrier
Austrian border barrier
Bulgarian border barrier
Greek border barrier
Macedonian border barrier