Let's talk about survival...REAL survival, no zombies...well, maybe some zombies

We had local practice at this last year when the neighborhood transformer failed. In a heavy snow. We have a well on electric. I have a rig so I can bypass the head and draw water by hand in a pipe that's closed on the bottom and is on a cable. It's hauling water up 65 ft, a quart at a time... So I have about 20 gallons bottled while we rig the well for graysen-power.... Surprise! All my water jugs were froze solid!! It gets colder in the cellar (by 15 degrees) than I measured the prior winter.

And the kids had all played with their emergency flashlights; left them on and they were now all depleted. So I only had the two solar powered flashlights, plus a Red Cross socket-charging flashlight (hangs in an outlet, comes on if the power fails). I went to go light my great grandparents' oil lamp; it will illuminate a whole room. And wouldn't cha know it? The reservoir is empty, the wick is dry, and out in the garage the oil bottle has all evaporated--lid was loose.

But we had a couple of cords cut and stacked out past the garage, so we just moved into the part of the house heated by franklin stove, and spent the evening playing cards and coloring by firelight.

Through the trees I can normally two of my neighbors' porch lights. They were both black. So I climbed the hilltop behind our house, where I could see headlights out on the highway and hear tires on the pavement. I could see the glow from town reflected off the snow-clouds, So I knew the world hadn't ended. The lights came on about midnight.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk
I rely on medication for my balance so I'd be looting the national chain pharmacy store within hours to make sure I didn't run out. Maybe that would get me a few months worth but after that I'd be screwed and probably depending on my son who lives next door.

Disaster of any kind disrupting my medication supplies would be a true disaster for me, I wouldn't last long once it ran out, I'd probably kill myself at that point with other drugs I'd looted from the pharmacy.

a reply to: Allaroundyou

Having large quantities of anything lends itself well to barter.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

Well it depends on the situation. If its a earthquake, I just pick stuff up, and put it back. If there is a forest fire I bug out, bag and all out of the forest. If its nuclear war?

Well not much worries from that, I just sit and watch it go down as it goes, not exactly rural here but not far from cities and stuff, but only by modern transportation, if that goes down, it would take weeks or longer to walk to any major cities. Just hunt stuff to eat, and plant stuff.

If its a worldwide flood, well I'm pretty high up. I suppose it would all just turn into ocean side property, yey.

Now what I am really hoping for is the zombie apocalypse, which would have the highest statistic of not surviving, but. It would finally give me a reason to take out the old sword, bow and what not and start chopping off heads hands and all other parts. What fun right?

So as you can see it all depends on the situation. Now if a meteor of a good size were to hit, or nuclear all out war, well. It depends, anything form put your head between you legs and kiss your ass goodby, to ah! Lets just wait it out for a few generations.

Though I have my fingers crossed for zombie apocalypse. Zombie apocalypse is the way to go. Even if you get bit and turn into one, life cant be that bad. Just raving the land in mass groups searching for brains and stuff, I am quite sure that after a few years after we have eliminated all the humans, we would make some sort of zombie towns and settle down a bit on our brain eating raving ways, who knows maybe even have zombie shops and zombie malls, and zombie get together to raise a zombie mayor or president or whatever.

Yup! there are worse things to be or end up in life that's for sure. Got to look on the bright side right?

Something has happened. No details other than it's bad.

Right now, I'm thinkin' bunker in. Contact other family that's near by, if they can get here, do so. If not, hunker down, and we'll be there to get you when we find out what's goin' on--if at all possible.

Inventory everything. Food. Water. Candles. Everything.

Crank up the crank powered radio, if there's no power. Even if there is, get it out and ready.

Gun cabinet is unlocked, and at least one person in the household is armed--most of us have at least some training, military or otherwise.

There's absolutely no call to do anything else, if I don't know what's happened...a bug out could run us right into the problem.

So bunker in, and wait to find out what's happening. Over-reaction profits a man nothing.

a reply to: seagull

Excellent!

A very measured response initially is the right way to go. Assess the situation as it evolves. Nothing drastic, but sure footed.

The first thing everyone who survives will do is reach out to others for support....a humans instinct Is to herd up....Family Friend Neighbor Enemy it matters not under duress.....screw your preps if you don't form a group ASAP you are certainly doomed....every minute that passes without you being in a group is one more minute closer to your demise.

a reply to: musicismagic

Thats the fear. We have a few places to go but the close ones are on Michigans southern border. So not a good area to be sticking around. Would probably head north if things look bad for a while.

Lots of it depends

a reply to: musicismagic

Yes on the nuke plants I'm hear 2 of them and after 30 days things could get real crazy. To move north to safety would be Michigans western UP if they start going off.

a reply to: one4all

That very much depends upon where you are.

In the city? Yep. Numbers may indeed be life, as they say. As there are going to be idiots out there that think what is mine is, in reality, theirs. Foolish, and ultimately suicidal, but they'll think it any way.

Out in the sticks? Maybe not so much, but it'd certainly make life easier and safer to have extra eyes, if nothing else.

Planting gardens. Hunting. Fishing. Preserving all that you grow and catch is always easier with extra hands to lend, well, a hand--if only to put it away when done.

Of course, defending that is easier with extra hands, too. Maintenance on the shelter. Taking care of any livestock. All easier with extra hands.

That's one of the first things I'd do, if not the first, get in contact with family and friends.

But under the right circumstances, it's not strictly necessary.

a reply to: mikell
Britain would be ruined if our nuclear plants did a Chernobyl.
Such a thought is not in my mind, but if suddenly all electronics stopped working, the power was cut, and there was no communication then I'd be assuming a Chernobyl type event was on its way.

So with this un-named "big bad" that has descended upon my milieu, I'd start trying to specify what the cause of the chaos is. First check to see if the neighbors have power. Then ease through the woods and over the hill to where I can see or at least hear the state highway, to see if there's any traffic. A "No" is probably a really bad sign. By day I'd be scanning the sky for jet contrails. ( I remember the blue skies of September 11, when there were no planes over any city in the US; I'd be looking for signs right now.)

If I didn't detect traffic on the state highway, I'd probably linger in the woods till after dark, to see if I can see any city light reflected off clouds downstate, or if the light reflected wasn't pink but orange/red, which would mean the big city is burning.

The next day, if there are still no signs of intact civilization, I'd set a watch at Graysen Hall, then hike down the road to where the swat team member lives. Probably take his family some homemade bread, and see if he is at home or if he's been called out or what. Then I'd pick up a friend in the neighborhood and double back to the highway, looking for hitchhikers or others on foot along the road.

I'd be looking for signs of organization (the police apparatus still functioning), signs of transportation (are trucks and trains moving?), and signs of populations---either fleeing the cities, or needing treatment for radiation burns, or whatever.

originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: one4all

That very much depends upon where you are.

In the city? Yep. Numbers may indeed be life, as they say. As there are going to be idiots out there that think what is mine is, in reality, theirs. Foolish, and ultimately suicidal, but they'll think it any way.

Out in the sticks? Maybe not so much, but it'd certainly make life easier and safer to have extra eyes, if nothing else.

Planting gardens. Hunting. Fishing. Preserving all that you grow and catch is always easier with extra hands to lend, well, a hand--if only to put it away when done.

Of course, defending that is easier with extra hands, too. Maintenance on the shelter. Taking care of any livestock. All easier with extra hands.

That's one of the first things I'd do, if not the first, get in contact with family and friends.

But under the right circumstances, it's not


Stress will kill you before you know it....unless you have survival skills already instilled in you you MUST find other people ...if we are presupposing that these skills are in place then the scenario is different.....you might be actioning your end game plan....you might be making an immediate effort to store fresh water and food maybe you need to re-stock on a lifesaving medicine before anything else....

It depends on your motivations....I am fully aware that most of my Family are as semi-blinded by this screwed up reality we all share.....most of them cannot see the need to learn skills or to prepare...so....I have been doing it for them....I have spent 40+ years preparing to prepare them without them knowing.....everything from buying gifts that are part of an Everyday Carry and harvesting and using wild plants and herb as medicines....like making the real life connections between the hard data and these wild herbs and medicines so they KNOW WHY...there are 36 copies of 3 different books and each of 36 Bugout bags has copies as well as maps with routes and water sources and directions to cached food and tools,seeds and generic medicines …. and everything needed to egress an urban area to a safer area....there are 4 directions and there are 4 egress maps and each destination has WATER BURIED along the way as per a group of people daily needs every 2 days walk is a water cache........N-S-E-W....there are meeting points there is a role call list in every bag. Every single bag has a letter from me....and a part of this letter is advice ...and that advice is simple....if you wish to travel fast travel alone but if you wish to travel far travel with others....you need people....WE all need people...if we aren't running from or fighting people we NEED people......extra preps have been made to be READY for these new people....FOOD and water cleaning tools are READY for these extra people....water is key and there is a basic water distiller cached at all 4 corners of the Map...who knows where people might end up.Without water we die.For anyone Prepping my advice is REDUNDANCY...people dig stuff up...I swear to god I dont know how it happens but there are people in places you would not believe people would go and they are CURIOUS and OBSERVANT like you would not believe....plus since the advent of game cameras there could literally be people watching you anywhere including what you think is off the normal path....I mean who digs up 30 gallons of water and takes it....but I have had it happen....anyone have any idea how hard it is to hide 30 gallons of water in 16 places and come back every year to replace it....never mind finding places 200 feet or less from a roadway or drivable path to make the switchout. Every 12 months I get tp play commando....I don't even hunt or birdwatch but a lot of people know me as such....LMAO....for the last 10 years harvesting wild foods has been my part of my schtick.....lol...times change….in the 80s I was trapping -snaring Coyotes on the same Farm I now search for wild greens on with permission from the Kids of the people I first met nearly 40 years ago....you need REASONS to be in places you cache things in....you need to know the PEOPLE around these places and be on good terms with them....a lot of people move and property changes hands as do acess rules...you need to build relationships solid enough that if your Family showed up instead of you there could be a chance of some loyalty and help...you have to MICRO-INVEST in many many ways.
I have heard a lot of online stories....but I doubt many of us have spent the hundreds of hours it really takes each year to be even semi-prepared for a real end game disaster....2nd hand stores for Bags and Clothes and boots....the Dollar store for sundries and bits and pieces...survival store sales for water filters and purifiers....the feedlot for 1000s of lbs of dry food....do you have any idea how much space 36 properly sealed and stored boxes of clothing and supplies of even the most basic kind takes up?.....
I dont think the masses will be making it....not considering what I have done and how it now looks to me 40 years down the road.....I am considered to be a survival fanatic by my Family......lol...and I don't even have them half ready yet after 40 years......lol.
I prep for 2 things...the arrival of Nibiru shortly and the Nuclear wars that will likely happen as it nears us all....any rouge Nations who cause friction as Nibiru nears will be vaporised if it seems they are looking to spark a global war...humanity cannot survive Nibiru AND a Global Nuclear war....and TPTB need to keep humanity relevant at all costs...there will be war...Countries that realise they will soon be underwater will want their people to migrate....but TPTB know this is not viable....anyone who rocks the boat will be tossed overboard IMHO...vaped.


Get out of the City whichever direction is best at the time...then go to the meeting places listed in the correct order...when Nibiru arrives there will be no truly safe places only SAFER PLACES....and none are above ground...suffice to say I shall stop now with that...people will need to be underground and know how and why they got there.

And as an aside...in every bugout bag is a back-up plan and explanation and maps as to where TPTB have dug in and hidden their bunkers ….and YES they are near my dam spots....soooooo...if all else fails ….you go to these places....because guess what...TPTB has prepared for many more than themselves....everyone needs help....lol....better a live Butler than a dead Freeman.36 bugout bags filled my pickup box...a half-ton....30 gallons of water is 6 buckets....or a LOT of 2 liter bottles dropped into PVC buried pipes....nothing is as easy as people think....and you gotta have water...yes the devices work yes the filters work yes the purifiers work and yes distillers work so do desalinators which are a MASSIVE EXPENSE.....but....you still need water every single day...and in an emergency when you are travelling light finding cleaning and drinking water for a group could cost you your life.... this topic is a way of life IMHO....but I will say this much it keeps you busy.

a reply to: one4all

Excellent post, and one to the heart of the issue. I don't agree with one of your main themes, but let's look at why.

It seems you've put quite a bit of thought and effort into this (as everyone should). And, while I don't completely agree with your premise of needing lots of people, for a variety of reasons (which I will get to in a moment), my perspective comes from one who is highly self-sufficient and who's location was carefully planned for exactly this reason. Additionally, I would encourage you to consider the fact that people who live in remote locations fully expect people to wantonly migrate to these locations with the expectation they are welcome there. And, they may well not be. People who live in remote locations are a pretty resourceful bunch, and are not keen on adapting their lifestyle to that of the larger masses, else they would live with the larger masses to begin with.

What many think is remote is our front yard, and not remote at all. So, while you may be surprised that someone finds something stashed a couple miles off a beaten path, these same places are daily haunts for many of us. And, out of place things get investigated. In summary, just be mindful of this when you advise people to flee populated areas to less populated areas; some might not be so welcoming. Public land is one thing, but even some seemingly public land isn't truly public (i.e. as in BLM leases and so forth).

The reason I don't entirely agree with the need to gather other people to survive is, because as you do so you lower the common denominator of everything with each added person. You have to, there is no choice. You lower the expectations of intelligence, ability, loyalty, order and civility. That is unless, of course, you are going to administer a series of intelligence, physical and psychological tests to every prospective addition and then be selective about allowing them to enter your group before allowing them in. Not a practical expectation by any means. In other words, and perhaps sadly, 'equal opportunity' isn't necessarily a thing. It's not about race (not at all), or religion, but rather about capability and resourcefulness. AND...the most capable, the most resourceful, aren't looking to join other group(s), so they're not the ones out there likely to show up and want to join. In fact, it's the exact opposite who are the ones likely to show up, the incapable and those who lack proper planning and resources, those who are just running away in hopes of finding an easier way out and taking advantage of others infrastructure, lacking their own.

It's a harsh reality. And THAT, was the point of the OP. How an end-game scenario will unfold is not as most expect, and determining if it actually is an end-game scenario will not be cut and dried. It may take weeks, or months...years even. It won't be like someone flips on a lighted sign which says ... "End of Times is here! Grab your BOB's and head for the hills!" It won't happen that way. And it won't happen on a bright sunny Monday morning at sunrise either. It will be the middle of the night on a rainy snowy Wednesday, or Saturday. In other words, there won't be this clear demarcation between 'every day' and 'crisis'. And, this is the principal problem with much of all survival prep in that most of it portrays survival as something you do following some sort of a catastrophic event. An event which clearly defines the boundary between normal life and crisis. It won't be that way. It will be a series of seemingly unrelated events, both natural and man-made, which when viewed collectively are the demarcation line. So, unless you already live it, you can't prepare for it.

Then again, it may not be an end of times event at all, but rather just a temporary inconvenience (snow storm, hurricane, etc.). It's not the end of the world, but just a period of time when one has to be significantly more self sufficient for a while. If people intent on survival all grab their BOB's and unbury their caches they're probably going to have wasted a significant amount of time, effort and money when the sun comes out and everything returns to normal.

In the end, survival isn't about some bag of stuff, or some getaway plan, it's about a lifestyle, a culture. You live it every day, you don't escape to it.

P.S. You made a good point about water though. It is the single hardest element of survival because it is the least mobile. But, again to my previous points, those who have prepared made those preparations around a water supply as a fundamental underpinning. That source of water may not be unlimited, and will likely be carefully guarded and they may not be willing to share as it is so precious.

I agree. I am extremely selective about who I want to work with in a crisis. Most of the public do not have what it takes. Some of my friends (one is an expert outdoorsman; another is a homesteader) will be drawing a crowd of people who will look to them for leadership, and without realizing it, will also look to these men as a source of food and safety in a crisis.

Food will probably not be a deal-breaker in my situation. I can get people started in gardening or small game hunting for themselves. But folks who don't know how to keep a fire safely, who cannot operate a chainsaw safely, folks who seek drama, are a life-threatening liability. I probably wouldn't outright refuse some of them, but I'd have to work to find a place for them to fit in. Not something I look forward to.

Well considered reply Flyingclaydisc.You live it to.Nice to see.


I don't like to let the rubber hit the road but sometimes you have to so it.

I grew up on a Farm in the sticks.

I used to put rounds over Pickup truck cabs during hunting season if you trespassed on our land...when I was 10 years old I was the triggerman already....303 British....today I get sick to my belly thinking about the risk I was taking...but when I was a Farmer I knew what I knew and I knew it with 100% certainty which is something I have learned everyone must sacrifice to some degree to live in an Urban setting....you have to dumb yourself down or you wont survive.....my biggest fear has always been getting to soft to make the hard decisions at the right times...to follow through on objectives smoothly and tightly.


I want INSULATION....and the group provides this....I want men who have SOMETHING TO LOSE....men who are thinking above and beyond themselves...and then I want to protect and preserve those men and keep them alive and functioning as a mainstay and I want to utilise other types of men and women to help further the core of the group which will always be the children....we are ALL CANNON FODDER for the children....in my views....and someone elses child trumps my grandma...full stop....like I said hard decisions.


When I was a kid I used to hike and hunt a lot.... hiked more than hunted...I was a meat hunter....not primarily a killer for sport or trophys.....I have stalked and touched a resting Whitetail deer...TOUCHED IT.....and it was not bedded alone.....I am seriously afraid that you dont understand something....when we needed fuel as teens some of my friends would go liberate it from other Farmers...who were ARMED AND PREPARED TO CAP YOUR ARSE......we did that for KICKS....lol....lol.

I understand the meaning of death and how to make it happen...I have fired weapons and liberated things since I was a small boy....I have stalked and hunted North Americas most challenging animals....and for kicks I once helped nail a serial killer in my Urban neck of the woods ….if I want your land and your water and everything else you have and I am one single determined educated experienced individual...I daresay you WILL NOT STOP ME....and yes I understand traps and ballistics....and I would not even consider guns.....not if I wanted something you had...then I would observe and act on removing leadership...I would weaken your leadership as soon as I could define it and then I would insert subversive elements into your group.I WOULD NOT HAVE A FIREFIGHT or let you know I was there until you were softened up by a few ACCIDENTS.....I would be alone and I would not have a gun.....and my group would survive.Water supplies can be temporarily sullied if you know what you are doing and understand the half-life of common chemicals and pathogens....you might even leave your hidey hole voluntarily if I choose to have it that way....you might simply recieve repeated visits until your group decides they wish to leave by vote.People are very superstitious when leadership has been fractured ...lol....accidents are more impactfull than incidents and why telegraph a takeover when you dont have to.
I believe you need LAYERS of protection and this mean you need PEOPLE...you need cannon fodder...leaders are diabolical...plain and simple.....I believe in pursuing attainable goals and doing it by making friends first...trying to build a group...then destroying anyone who sees things differently....IF IF IF...you have something I want or need...so by proxy anything my GROUP wants or needs becomes MY INDIVIDUAL wish.
My endgame scenario is based upon a Vlar Global Continental Displacement Wave hitting my Continent.As will happen to ALL CONTINENTS IMHO.In a nutshell this is akin to Noahs Flood,this means that to me weapons will be for protection from hungry animals of all types which will be globally displaced and furiously trying to survive...but if you need the weapons you are likely already screwed....I anticipate there being NO PEOPLE TO BE FOUND....possibly no one for months...no one alive that is....a landscape of thousands of km of mudflats contaminated by saltwater and ead biological materials rotting at different depths below the surface some shallow some deep,Oceans filled with the same materials,Wornmwood,no dry wood to burn,everything rotting and dieing,no Mad Max scenario,NOTHING,no cities to scavenge,oh there will be places left virtually untouched nature is this way,but it will be possibly a hundred years before anyone ever steps foot into those areas....they will be alone for a long long time,I believe that human life will be paramount to protect,ALL HUMAN LIFE WILL BE EXTREMELY VALUABLE from a genetic diversity perspective,I think we will lose close to 80% of humnaity...when the waves hit,then a lot more shortly thereafter.
You see Flyingclaydisc...to me the single most important factor in survival of any kind is what you are really digging for,the WHY,why do you have to survive...what has happened...and because EVERYTHING depends on this factor we are forced to either target one scenario we are sure is coming or we must be prepared genericlly for any type of disaster....both domestic and global in scale....it is extremely difficult to prepare for everything without considering the need to work with or predate on other people....to me the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few and the more people in my group the more surety I put behind my decisions especially morally....meaning clearly that if I am part of a group and you refuse to share...I will liberate your goods on behalf of a needy HUMANITY.....you will be sacrificed for a greater need....even if you were a leader similar in mindset to me we would possibly be going one-on-one terminally to blend groups...I would martyr myself to remove a strong enough leader with the confidence that my tactical and life training would allow my 2nd 3rd and 4th to step in and finish the job my martyrdom began....which would be blending the groups and building a bigger group a more powerful able group with a more progressive aggressive attitude focused upon growth and continuation of humanity as a whole.I believe everything is location location location and I already know where TPTB are hunkered down at...and it fits my expectations perfectly....they are where I and mine will be....they may eventually be experiencing some of what we are discussing on a macro-level....different approach same goal.I dont see a Mad Max scenario,I see an Earth wiped clean.and I see very very few people..and I envision a need to protect humanitys survival beyond myself on a core value level.Its a LOT EASIER to stalk through your perimeter defences and your inner circle and into your bedroom and put a red paint dot on your forehead for you to see in the morning than it is to get within even 15 yards of resting Whitetails.You have to be consistantly distracting them using NATURES CUES...its a very very complicated ballet of sights sounds extures smells nerves and gut feelings....getting to a person is relatively easy IMHO....and yes I have experience just like this,and when you are a Leader and you wake up in the moring and there is a red dot on your forehead and a small note tucked under your pillow asking for a meeting on good terms,you just might decide to not tell anyone once your wife stops freaking out,negotiation first.

a reply to: one4all

Candidly, I'm not exactly sure how to respond to your post. All due respect, but It reads a bit like a manic collage of thoughts ricocheting around near the bottom of quickly emptying jug of moonshine. LOL.

I guess I'll have to come back later and read it again, but about 5-6 times I had the almost uncontrollable urge to start a response with.... "Well, if you ever come around my neck of the woods and try that, I will....". Then, I just thought better of it and read on.

Anyway, cheers.

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
a reply to: one4all

Candidly, I'm not exactly sure how to respond to your post. All due respect, but It reads a bit like a manic collage of thoughts ricocheting around near the bottom of quickly emptying jug of moonshine. LOL.

I guess I'll have to come back later and read it again, but about 5-6 times I had the almost uncontrollable urge to start a response with.... "Well, if you ever come around my neck of the woods and try that, I will....". Then, I just thought better of it and read on.

Anyway, cheers.

I am glad you reserved judgement.....I was simply trying to illustrate the extremes of the spectrum of mindsets which will all be operating in a lawless environment....everyone has a different goal in mind...and differet problem solving skills.
Once bullets start flying individuals and Families who are dug in with no Cavalry on the way are history....history itself proves this out....the Pioneers had it right...when the war drums began beating they all packed up their bug-out bags and headed for the Fort...lol...lol...none of this is new....especially the bug-out bag...I wonder what they had in theirs...LOL.
The movie called The Postman is a good example of the things we see when people begin to form groups.

I personally believe EveryMan and EveryWoman and their Children should all have the freedom and ability to defend their right to life however they may see fit.....full stop.I personally hope that under duress good people would strive to build bigger good groups ASAP..for I have loved ones and were they to be lost amidst the storm I would like there to be big strong groups of good people likely catalysed by individuals who come from single good families for them to seek out.

The Homestead Self-Defense Manual from 1810 advised an egress plan be in place at all times and property be abandoned...and where do you go when you have to bug-out....you look for friends right.

Here are some reasons to keep prepared.www.youtube.com...://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2BX8MWMMjU.....I call the global version of what happens Vlar Global Continental Displacement Waves.

The notion that all social systems in place would collapse and disintegrate overnight in the face of a major catastrophe is more like a doom porn fantasy than what would happen in reality. The only way that would happen would be a massive global event that pretty much kills everybody, and in that case all your little firestarting tricks and hammock camping skills aren't going to be worth jack diddly.