Michael Cohen Pleads Guilty to Charge in Mueller Inquiry Related to Russia Business Deal

a reply to: Wayfarer


That much is completely obvious.

originally posted by: Extorris

I searched Donald Jr.s testimony for what you claim he said and I can not find it.

Can you provide me with a page or direct quote?

Donald Trump Jr.'s full testimony to the SJC can be found here in searchable format:
www.documentcloud.org...

I may be wrong on which Committee hearing it was claimed, as apparently, Trump, Jr. has been before three different committees with his testimony and not all of them have been made public, but here's the piece I'm talking about.

One House panel said in a footnote to a report that Trump Jr. told them he believed the Moscow project was dormant as of early June 2016. But it was not clear the context of what Trump Jr. was asked or exactly how he answered it.

“All communications, all document that we have [about] Trump Moscow end by January 2016,” the source said. The person added, if Cohen continued to work on the project into 2016 “we weren’t aware of it.”

ktla.com...

a reply to: Propagandalf

Could it be that Cohen is still in cahoots with the President,keeping the media busy until it is time for everything to go down?

originally posted by: illece
a reply to: Propagandalf

Could it be that Cohen is still in cahoots with the President,keeping the media busy until it is time for everything to go down?

If Cohen was smart, he'd stick by Trump so he can at least have a chance at a pardon later. However, Cohen made such an ignorant choice in attorneys, I don't hold out hope for any future smart decisions coming from him. He may be dumb enough to cut his own throat further, and probably with the recommendation of his crap attorney.

originally posted by: Deetermined

originally posted by: illece
a reply to: Propagandalf

Could it be that Cohen is still in cahoots with the President,keeping the media busy until it is time for everything to go down?

If Cohen was smart, he'd stick by Trump so he can at least have a chance at a pardon later. However, Cohen made such an ignorant choice in attorneys, I don't hold out hope for any future smart decisions coming from him. He may be dumb enough to cut his own throat further, and probably with the recommendation of his crap attorney.

He's a lot like Avenatti, in that he's allegedly a lawyer, but all evidence suggests he really doesn't know much about the law at all, or else he'd have made better choices in recent months.

a reply to: Deetermined

Thank you.

I found that footnote:

[U] It appears the Trump Tower Moscow project failed in January 2016

Trump Jr. testified that, as of early June 2016. he believed the Trump Tower Moscow project was dormant.
The project failed because "[t]he due diligence did not come through and the Trump Organization's representative "lost
confidence in the license, and they abandoned the project.

The fact the Trump Organization did not have a confirmed site, so the deal never reached the point where the company was discussing financing arrangements for the project. The Committee determined that the Trump Tower Moscow project did not progress beyond an early developmental phase, and that this potentiality licensing deal was not related to the Trump campaign.

intelligence.house.gov...

Reading the paragraphs that preceded that passage, The House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence got a great deal wrong in that report, or otherwise proved false from what we know now.

Reading the above for example "the deal never reached the point where the company was discussing financing arrangements for the project."

Cohen's plea agreement and correlating emails show that Agalarov was responsible for the proposal's financing, the same family that arranged the Trump Tower Meeting on June 9th 2016. The Moscow Tower deal was still proceeding until June 14th, with Cohen making travel arrangements to Moscow. Cohen officially shut down the deal on June 14th 2016 when news broke that the Russian FSB was responsible for hacking the DNC email systems.

Cohen's Plea Agreement runs directly contrary to many of the HPSCI's statements and conclusions.
Examples:

Cohen thus attempted to reach out to members of the Russian government in an attempt to make the project proceed,
but apparently did not have any direct points of contact.

False

Based on the documents produced to the Committee, it does not appear Cohen ever received a response from anyone affiliated with the Russian Government

False

I believe we would need to see actual testimony to conclude that Donald Trump Jr. either told the the truth or provided false testimony, but from what is public, there is no evidence yet that he lied about the matter to congress or any time under oath.

originally posted by: Propagandalf
Another victim of the fishing expedition, pleading guilty to lying, and not anything to do with what they were tasked with investigating.

Really? Please tell me what part of the Rosenstein letter has you confused?

originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck

Really? Please tell me what part of theRosenstein letter has you confused?

None of it. The indictments and the Rosenstein's letter confirm that it's fishing expedition. What part of "fishing expedition" do you not understand?

originally posted by: illece
a reply to: Propagandalf

Could it be that Cohen is still in cahoots with the President,keeping the media busy until it is time for everything to go down?

It is more likely that the President's documents and answers submitted to the inquiry tipped them off about Cohen's lying.

According to Giuliani, they provided prosecutors with every document related to the Moscow hotel negotiations, and "That’s the only reason they know about it.”

www.nytimes.com...

It's just another Nothing Burger hill that Russian collusion conspiracy theorists are willing to die on.

originally posted by: Propagandalf

originally posted by: illece
a reply to: Propagandalf

Could it be that Cohen is still in cahoots with the President,keeping the media busy until it is time for everything to go down?

It is more likely that the President's documents and answers submitted to the inquiry tipped them off about Cohen's lying.

According to Giuliani, they provided with every document related to the Moscow hotel negotiations, and "That’s the only reason they know about it.”

Trump Jr. said June 2016, and it would seem documents back up that timeline. As I commented above, Cohen really doesn't seem to be that smart.

I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that his work for Trump and the Trump organization consisted mostly of very basic low-level legal work, like sending out boilerplate documents where you do little more than fill in blanks with the appropriate names & dates.

That said, he's being squeezed with the same absurd perjury trap that Mueller used against Flynn. It's neither ethical nor just.

originally posted by: AndyFromMichigan

originally posted by: Propagandalf

originally posted by: illece
a reply to: Propagandalf

Could it be that Cohen is still in cahoots with the President,keeping the media busy until it is time for everything to go down?

It is more likely that the President's documents and answers submitted to the inquiry tipped them off about Cohen's lying.

According to Giuliani, they provided with every document related to the Moscow hotel negotiations, and "That’s the only reason they know about it.”

Trump Jr. said June 2016, and it would seem documents back up that timeline. As I commented above, Cohen really doesn't seem to be that smart.

I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that his work for Trump and the Trump organization consisted mostly of very basic low-level legal work, like sending out boilerplate documents where you do little more than fill in blanks with the appropriate names & dates.

That said, he's being squeezed with the same absurd perjury trap that Mueller used against Flynn. It's neither ethical nor just.

Cohen seems like an idiot. Frankly, I'm surprised the Trump family gave him so much reign.

a reply to: AndyFromMichigan

just a coffee boy?

he spent 70 hours with muellers team.

originally posted by: Propagandalf

originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck

Really? Please tell me what part of theRosenstein letter has you confused?

None of it. The indictments and the Rosenstein's letter confirm that it's fishing expedition. What part of "fishing expedition" do you not understand?

A fishing expedition is an investigation without a stated purpose.

The Order issued by the Deputy Attorney General at the direction of Congress clearly states it's purpose.

You might disagree with the stated purpose, but in doing so you also acknowledge it is not a "fishing expedition" without a stated purpose.

originally posted by: Propagandalf

originally posted by: illece
a reply to: Propagandalf

Could it be that Cohen is still in cahoots with the President,keeping the media busy until it is time for everything to go down?

It is more likely that the President's documents and answers submitted to the inquiry tipped them off about Cohen's lying.

According to Giuliani, they provided prosecutors with every document related to the Moscow hotel negotiations, and "That’s the only reason they know about it.”

Interesting assumption.

If so, then why did the President say "this deal" was "early 2016" and accuse Cohen of lying in this Plea Deal to get a reduced sentence?

Both of which would suggest the President might have said something different if he was asked about the topic in the Special Counsel questionnaire.

originally posted by: Wayfarer

originally posted by: Wardaddy454

originally posted by: Wayfarer

originally posted by: Propagandalf
Another victim of the fishing expedition, pleading guilty to lying, and not anything to do with what they were tasked with investigating.

Lol. Plead guilty to lying about Russian collusion into the 2018 election (you know, the thing the investigation was tasked with looking into). Sometimes I feel like people think if they deliberately remove the part of their brains responsible for logic that logic just ceases to exist.

Is this Russian collusion to alter the outcome of the election, or is this a real estate deal that actually never went through.

The only thing left in your brain is simple word association.

Every time you try a silly underhanded insult it just makes you look stupid (and you have made plenty of good and worthwhile posts even in an argumentative fashion so I know you're capable of better).

Despite your 'himming and hawwing' that it's not germane, it is in fact well within Mueller's purview. That's why your sitting here on ATS in the lunatic fringe caterwauling over the unfairness or the illegality of it while the rest of the legal community supports it.

At least mine are underhanded, whereas yours...

So your telling me that if it were anyone else, Mueller making someone undergo "memory therapy" would be a bad thing? Is that within his purview? Just how much power is a special council given if he can force people to undergo that? And how is that admissible evidence, when a polygraph is not? No sir, Mueller is a dirty cop.

You may consider it "himming and hawwing", but that just indicates to me that you care very little for Jurisprudence, in favor of some jacked up notion of justice for your bruised sensibilities after 2016.

originally posted by: Wardaddy454

originally posted by: Wayfarer

originally posted by: Wardaddy454

originally posted by: Wayfarer

originally posted by: Propagandalf
Another victim of the fishing expedition, pleading guilty to lying, and not anything to do with what they were tasked with investigating.

Lol. Plead guilty to lying about Russian collusion into the 2018 election (you know, the thing the investigation was tasked with looking into). Sometimes I feel like people think if they deliberately remove the part of their brains responsible for logic that logic just ceases to exist.

Is this Russian collusion to alter the outcome of the election, or is this a real estate deal that actually never went through.

The only thing left in your brain is simple word association.

Every time you try a silly underhanded insult it just makes you look stupid (and you have made plenty of good and worthwhile posts even in an argumentative fashion so I know you're capable of better).

Despite your 'himming and hawwing' that it's not germane, it is in fact well within Mueller's purview. That's why your sitting here on ATS in the lunatic fringe caterwauling over the unfairness or the illegality of it while the rest of the legal community supports it.

At least mine are underhanded, whereas yours...

So your telling me that if it were anyone else, Mueller making someone undergo "memory therapy" would be a bad thing? Is that within his purview? Just how much power is a special council given if he can force people to undergo that? And how is that admissible evidence, when a polygraph is not? No sir, Mueller is a dirty cop.

You may consider it "himming and hawwing", but that just indicates to me that you care very little for Jurisprudence, in favor of some jacked up notion of justice for your bruised sensibilities after 2016.

Its not me who apparently 'care's very little for Jurisprudence', but really the overwhelming majority of legally trained professionals (which neither you nor I are). In an absence of specialized training in Law, the logical thing is to assume that the vast majority of legal professionals know more than you and are likely right.

And uh, boy howdy what the heck is this 'memory therapy' thing you speak of?

originally posted by: Wayfarer

originally posted by: Wardaddy454

originally posted by: Wayfarer

originally posted by: Wardaddy454

originally posted by: Wayfarer

originally posted by: Propagandalf
Another victim of the fishing expedition, pleading guilty to lying, and not anything to do with what they were tasked with investigating.

Lol. Plead guilty to lying about Russian collusion into the 2018 election (you know, the thing the investigation was tasked with looking into). Sometimes I feel like people think if they deliberately remove the part of their brains responsible for logic that logic just ceases to exist.

Is this Russian collusion to alter the outcome of the election, or is this a real estate deal that actually never went through.

The only thing left in your brain is simple word association.

Every time you try a silly underhanded insult it just makes you look stupid (and you have made plenty of good and worthwhile posts even in an argumentative fashion so I know you're capable of better).

Despite your 'himming and hawwing' that it's not germane, it is in fact well within Mueller's purview. That's why your sitting here on ATS in the lunatic fringe caterwauling over the unfairness or the illegality of it while the rest of the legal community supports it.

At least mine are underhanded, whereas yours...

So your telling me that if it were anyone else, Mueller making someone undergo "memory therapy" would be a bad thing? Is that within his purview? Just how much power is a special council given if he can force people to undergo that? And how is that admissible evidence, when a polygraph is not? No sir, Mueller is a dirty cop.

You may consider it "himming and hawwing", but that just indicates to me that you care very little for Jurisprudence, in favor of some jacked up notion of justice for your bruised sensibilities after 2016.

Its not me who apparently 'care's very little for Jurisprudence', but really the overwhelming majority of legally trained professionals (which neither you nor I are). In an absence of specialized training in Law, the logical thing is to assume that the vast majority of legal professionals know more than you and are likely right.

And uh, boy howdy what the heck is this 'memory therapy' thing you speak of?

And an equal number are claiming what his purview is and isn't.

"Regressive memory therapy techniques"

originally posted by: Wardaddy454

originally posted by: Wayfarer

originally posted by: Wardaddy454

originally posted by: Wayfarer

originally posted by: Wardaddy454

originally posted by: Wayfarer

originally posted by: Propagandalf
Another victim of the fishing expedition, pleading guilty to lying, and not anything to do with what they were tasked with investigating.

Lol. Plead guilty to lying about Russian collusion into the 2018 election (you know, the thing the investigation was tasked with looking into). Sometimes I feel like people think if they deliberately remove the part of their brains responsible for logic that logic just ceases to exist.

Is this Russian collusion to alter the outcome of the election, or is this a real estate deal that actually never went through.

The only thing left in your brain is simple word association.

Every time you try a silly underhanded insult it just makes you look stupid (and you have made plenty of good and worthwhile posts even in an argumentative fashion so I know you're capable of better).

Despite your 'himming and hawwing' that it's not germane, it is in fact well within Mueller's purview. That's why your sitting here on ATS in the lunatic fringe caterwauling over the unfairness or the illegality of it while the rest of the legal community supports it.

At least mine are underhanded, whereas yours...

So your telling me that if it were anyone else, Mueller making someone undergo "memory therapy" would be a bad thing? Is that within his purview? Just how much power is a special council given if he can force people to undergo that? And how is that admissible evidence, when a polygraph is not? No sir, Mueller is a dirty cop.

You may consider it "himming and hawwing", but that just indicates to me that you care very little for Jurisprudence, in favor of some jacked up notion of justice for your bruised sensibilities after 2016.

Its not me who apparently 'care's very little for Jurisprudence', but really the overwhelming majority of legally trained professionals (which neither you nor I are). In an absence of specialized training in Law, the logical thing is to assume that the vast majority of legal professionals know more than you and are likely right.

And uh, boy howdy what the heck is this 'memory therapy' thing you speak of?

And an equal number are claiming what his purview is and isn't.

"Regressive memory therapy techniques"

Woa wait a second, can you show me where its an 'equal number'? Every data-point I have seen up till now shows an overwhelming support from the legal community for Mueller's work.

And Re: Regressive memory therapy techniques (I'm still uneducated as to what this is exactly, and Google search didn't yield anything directly related to Mueller), could you walk me through how I assume Mueller is using this for ill gotten gains?

a reply to: Extorris

Interesting assumption.

If so, then why did the President say "this deal" was "early 2016" and accuse Cohen of lying in this Plea Deal to get a reduced sentence?

Both of which would suggest the President might have said something different if he was asked about the topic in the Special Counsel questionnaire.

Well, it's not an assumption. I'm just repeating what Trump's lawyers have said.

He said "this project". A deal suggests a deal. There was no deal.

Your question assumes Trump knew what was going on with the negotiations, but a person familiar with the situation said Cohen discussed the deal with Trump Jr. and Ivanka. During the Senate Judiciary Committee in September 2017, Trump Jr. said he was only "peripherally aware" of the proposals.

As for Trump accusing him of lying to get a better deal, perhaps Trump didn't even know about it. Don Jr. stated in his Committee that most of what he knew about it he learned while preparing to testify.

www.nytimes.com...

Lol, you guys are awesome.

Now we're at the point of "trump likely never even knew" and "mueller is making people lie by threatening them."

You do know it's a character strength to be able to admit when you're wrong, don't you? And conversely, it's a deep, weak, character flaw to relentlessly insist you're right at all costs, in the face of overwhelming likelihood of the contrary?

No wonder the country is in such a mess.

Hold your leader accountable. It's the patriotic thing to do.