President believe me not your eyes says N Korea is not a threat, satellite images disagree

originally posted by: Byrd
a reply to: BlackJackal

I recall that a number of us predicted this. I believe we were accused of not having faith in the process or something similar.

Exactly. Trump knew what he was doing. /s

originally posted by: matafuchs
a reply to: BlackJackal

These are all non-operational. So, what is the threat? Now we know about them and...not seeing the downside here.

No one ever said they were launch sites. They are hidden bases for research and development. The North doesn't need permanent launch facilities they have mobile launch units. That was why I mentioned the Obama era program to track those mobile launchers being grounded.

If tensions rose, the report says, the missiles would be transported from the base to prearranged launching sites — often no more than a wide spot in a road. The mobile launchers can move quickly — they can be ready to fire in under an hour — which is why the United States has been trying to get the small satellites into the sky for early warning. The satellites have a special kind of sensor using “synthetic aperture radar” that cuts through clouds.

a reply to: BlackJackal

. I am only pointing out that Trump lied to the American people about our national security.

You keep saying this as fact, but right now all I've seen are allegations.

That said, the source of these allegations have said that these bases are thought to be SRBM and MRBM, not ICBMS.

So maybe a MRBM could hit Hawaii, but honestly, they haven't had much success with anything over a few thousand miles.

You keep saying it's a fact they are a direct threat to national security, and from everything I've read, they still have a few years.

I'm not downplaying that we need to keep an eye on them, but they couldn't just nuke mainland tomorrow.

a reply to: BlackJackal

You keep implying that I want war with North Korea. I have no idea how you are making that logical leap. I am only pointing out that Trump lied to the American people about our national security. I have no idea the best way to handle North Korea and I'm pretty sure no one else does either.

So you admit freely that you have no idea what to do, but yet you attack the one guy who has made progress because of what? Your disdain for him. I call that wanting war, when you would rather not even try for peace because... Trump!

We did your idea... you know, not knowing what to do... for quite a few Presidencies before this, and every time it failed. By failure I mean that North Korea gained more weapons and the ability to use them, extorted money from the US in the process, and kept threatening everyone around them. They are not making threats, have relaxed their border, have returned our soldiers' remains, and are continuing talks without concessions by us.

My son is not yet 25. He would be eligible for a draft should one be introduced. You keep your war-mongering to yourself. This is no longer political debate over policy, it is dangerous warmongering rhetoric for personal agendas. I know what war is, secondhand at least. My father fought in Korea during that war. I saw the scars it put on him... once is enough.

You want to fix this? Go on over there and start your own war. I want no part of it.

TheRedneck

a reply to: BlackJackal

Those mobile launchers can only be used with SRBM and MRBM.

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: BlackJackal

You keep implying that I want war with North Korea. I have no idea how you are making that logical leap. I am only pointing out that Trump lied to the American people about our national security. I have no idea the best way to handle North Korea and I'm pretty sure no one else does either.

So you admit freely that you have no idea what to do, but yet you attack the one guy who has made progress because of what? Your disdain for him. I call that wanting war, when you would rather not even try for peace because... Trump!

We did your idea... you know, not knowing what to do... for quite a few Presidencies before this, and every time it failed. By failure I mean that North Korea gained more weapons and the ability to use them, extorted money from the US in the process, and kept threatening everyone around them. They are not making threats, have relaxed their border, have returned our soldiers' remains, and are continuing talks without concessions by us.

My son is not yet 25. He would be eligible for a draft should one be introduced. You keep your war-mongering to yourself. This is no longer political debate over policy, it is dangerous warmongering rhetoric for personal agendas. I know what war is, secondhand at least. My father fought in Korea during that war. I saw the scars it put on him... once is enough.

You want to fix this? Go on over there and start your own war. I want no part of it.

TheRedneck

You are better than this. Your continual use of a logical fallacy as a defense is embarrassing.

Trump still doesn't know what to do, all he has succeeded at is to get soldiers remains returned to us in exchange for terminating our joint military exercises with South Korea and legitimized Kim on the world stage. That is a lopsided exchange if I ever saw one.

We are still doing nothing, but now we gave up a lot to end up right where we started. How are we better now than we were before? I'll answer for you, we are not better now. At best, it is exactly like it was before Trump gave up our playing cards and at worst, well its worse.

a reply to: BlackJackal

Trump still doesn't know what to do, all he has succeeded at is to get soldiers remains returned to us in exchange for terminating our joint military exercises with South Korea and legitimized Kim on the world stage. That is a lopsided exchange if I ever saw one.

OK, I'm done with you.

When someone tells me that saying "hello, let's talk" is somehow a major concession, when the return of soldiers' remains is not, that's when I know they are being intentionally obtuse. You got your lulz, warmonger. Enjoy them. May you never see war, despite your desires; in real war one does not respawn for a second life.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: BlackJackal

Those mobile launchers can only be used with SRBM and MRBM.

You are correct, the mobile launchers can only launch SRBMs and MRBM's. In the case ICBM's it has been reported that the launchers would be used to transport them to a pre-designated launch location.

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: BlackJackal

Trump still doesn't know what to do, all he has succeeded at is to get soldiers remains returned to us in exchange for terminating our joint military exercises with South Korea and legitimized Kim on the world stage. That is a lopsided exchange if I ever saw one.

OK, I'm done with you.

When someone tells me that saying "hello, let's talk" is somehow a major concession, when the return of soldiers' remains is not, that's when I know they are being intentionally obtuse. You got your lulz, warmonger. Enjoy them. May you never see war, despite your desires; in real war one does not respawn for a second life.

TheRedneck

Look, I understand that you are fearful of war. I am too. I have no desire for a war but I don't want my President telling me I'm safe when I'm not.

I have a 21 year old son myself and I would absolutely hate for him to be drafted. When I tell you that I don't want a war I am being as sincere as I can be. However, not wanting a war and calling out the Presidential administration for lying about national security are two totally separate topics. I honestly don't see how you are making the leap.

Op has no idea what he is talking about yet tells others they are wrong.

I would ask that you stop but then where else can I get a good laugh.

originally posted by: BlackJackal

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: BlackJackal

Those mobile launchers can only be used with SRBM and MRBM.

You are correct, the mobile launchers can only launch SRBMs and MRBM's. In the case ICBM's it has been reported that the launchers would be used to transport them to a pre-designated launch location.

The only successful launch of an ICBM they had was in November of last year.

That said, it didn't go very far, like 600 miles, but that's because they did a lofty launch to prove it could go into space, which is where the real gains are made.

If we go off of their previous track record, they have a serious accuracy problem, and this missile could have likely been a good scare than anything. You have to be far along in your program before you can put a payload on it and hit with precision. Again, they're likely not there, the only way they could get there is a few more years (because the country has so little resources) and many more tests.

A little strange but what the heck. Still more progress than whats his name, the last guy in the Whitehouse.

a reply to: BlackJackal

I honestly don't see how you are making the leap.

Yes, I think you do.

Admitting it just screws up your agenda.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: BlackJackal

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: BlackJackal

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: theantediluvian

Better we ignore reality and just live in Trump's bubble of bull# lest we all be called "war mongers" by the supporters of the guy who thinks we need a new nuclear arms race.

Reality is exactly where I live. I don't expect the unicorns to make their rainbow fly across North Korea because of a single meeting. The simple fact is that we are safer now than we were before, the war is over (remains returned), and we're still pressing forward toward peace.

Literally nobody said this.

It's implied pretty strongly. Let me ask you directly, what's your solution if not war? You certainly would rather bash Trump than work towards peace... that's pretty obvious to me.

TheRedneck

Implied pretty strongly? Seriously? Go back through the thread and show me where anyone has suggested launching an attack, starting a war, or even spitting at North Korea. The only people making that suggestion are you and the other people refusing to address the topic at hand.

How can you continue to defend Trump when he lied about the security of the United States of America to the American people. He literally said the threat from North Korea was done, over and that is not the truth.

you have made several strong statements here, but I seem to be missing some context.

Can you please cite exactly where NK should be right now in their disarm agreement with the US? I only ask, as I'm not sure they were told to turn in all weapons including slingshots by October 10th or something, so please tell us where they should be as opposed to where they are. Unless this is just about "orange man bad", in which case I'd say you are pathetic and walk away smiling.

Geez, can you not read? Trump stated that North Korea was 'no longer a nuclear threat' in June. However, since that time North Korea hasn't backed down from the production of nuclear material and have created new bases to carry out this research.

How is North Korea no longer a nuclear threat if they continue to develop their capabilities?

So you won't be laying out the agreement so YOU understand what we and NK agreed to? There is a time frame, first off. Second, there has been a significant deescalation of aggression from NK, which went from a probable war, to a peaceful resolution possibility in the future.

So you can split hairs to try to paint orange man bad, and get all your butties to star you until you scamper off till 2020, or you can realize what is happening in the world you live in, and see if perhaps Trump isn't Hitlers clone. Are you worried about NK nuking you as much as you were a year ago? If not, it must be something Obama did.

originally posted by: Muninn
Op has no idea what he is talking about yet tells others they are wrong.

I would ask that you stop but then where else can I get a good laugh.

Oh, I have no idea what I'm talking about? Please enlighten me.

You, have made three posts in this thread with no substance. Your entire purpose is to be a cheerleader. Unless you have something to add, shoo.

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: BlackJackal

I honestly don't see how you are making the leap.

Yes, I think you do.

Admitting it just screws up your agenda.

TheRedneck

Look, if there is a logical connection between this topic and warmongering, surely someone as smart as you can easily write it down right? Because here is the logical flow of my argument:

1. President Trump said North Korea was no longer a nuclear threat
2. New satellite images and US Intelligence confirmation state N Korea has continued their nuclear and ballistic research
3. Therefore Trump was not honest with the American People

Your argument is this:

1. President Trump said North Korea was no longer a nuclear threat
2. New satellite images and US Intelligence confirmation state N Korea has continued their nuclear and ballistic research
3. OP wants war.....

That's what is called an invalid argument my friend. Read up.

Valid and Invalid Arguments

originally posted by: BlackJackal

originally posted by: Muninn
Op has no idea what he is talking about yet tells others they are wrong.

I would ask that you stop but then where else can I get a good laugh.

Oh, I have no idea what I'm talking about? Please enlighten me.

You, have made three posts in this thread with no substance. Your entire purpose is to be a cheerleader. Unless you have something to add, shoo.

Kind of like reading your own posts, right?

What is your purpose southern guardian?

originally posted by: BlackJackal

originally posted by: matafuchs
a reply to: BlackJackal

These are all non-operational. So, what is the threat? Now we know about them and...not seeing the downside here.

No one ever said they were launch sites. They are hidden bases for research and development. The North doesn't need permanent launch facilities they have mobile launch units. That was why I mentioned the Obama era program to track those mobile launchers being grounded.

If tensions rose, the report says, the missiles would be transported from the base to prearranged launching sites — often no more than a wide spot in a road. The mobile launchers can move quickly — they can be ready to fire in under an hour — which is why the United States has been trying to get the small satellites into the sky for early warning. The satellites have a special kind of sensor using “synthetic aperture radar” that cuts through clouds.

They have no mobile launch capabilities in ICBMs only ballistic rockets. Means they ignite fly up and back down just like artillery. There only rocket with the capabilities to reach orbit is a liquid-fueled rocket that is fired from a launch tower. This is why we knew when they were preparing for a launch because they literally assemble it and fuel it on the launch tower. They as of yet not figured out how to make an ICBM mobile it is not as easy as you think. Even when they tried to show off during a military parade it was painfully obvious there mobile launcher was a fake. they have claimed to have an erector launcher but no evidence to show this to be true. There primary ICBM was Hwasong-15 its a very big rocket and very difficult to launch from a mobile launcher. Realize even the US and Russia didnt develop this until the 60s. Silo launch is still the primary method even today. They only had one site to assemble these rockets and it was damaged than they disassembled it. To my knowledge they have not created a new launch site yet and as i said earlier this report from March was discussing mobile rocket artillery units. they fire off hundreds of rockets in an artillery-like barrage.

Now if you have evidence to the contrary im sure there are alot of people that would love to see it.

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: BlackJackal

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: BlackJackal

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: theantediluvian

Better we ignore reality and just live in Trump's bubble of bull# lest we all be called "war mongers" by the supporters of the guy who thinks we need a new nuclear arms race.

Reality is exactly where I live. I don't expect the unicorns to make their rainbow fly across North Korea because of a single meeting. The simple fact is that we are safer now than we were before, the war is over (remains returned), and we're still pressing forward toward peace.

Literally nobody said this.

It's implied pretty strongly. Let me ask you directly, what's your solution if not war? You certainly would rather bash Trump than work towards peace... that's pretty obvious to me.

TheRedneck

Implied pretty strongly? Seriously? Go back through the thread and show me where anyone has suggested launching an attack, starting a war, or even spitting at North Korea. The only people making that suggestion are you and the other people refusing to address the topic at hand.

How can you continue to defend Trump when he lied about the security of the United States of America to the American people. He literally said the threat from North Korea was done, over and that is not the truth.

you have made several strong statements here, but I seem to be missing some context.

Can you please cite exactly where NK should be right now in their disarm agreement with the US? I only ask, as I'm not sure they were told to turn in all weapons including slingshots by October 10th or something, so please tell us where they should be as opposed to where they are. Unless this is just about "orange man bad", in which case I'd say you are pathetic and walk away smiling.

Geez, can you not read? Trump stated that North Korea was 'no longer a nuclear threat' in June. However, since that time North Korea hasn't backed down from the production of nuclear material and have created new bases to carry out this research.

How is North Korea no longer a nuclear threat if they continue to develop their capabilities?

So you won't be laying out the agreement so YOU understand what we and NK agreed to? There is a time frame, first off. Second, there has been a significant deescalation of aggression from NK, which went from a probable war, to a peaceful resolution possibility in the future.

So you can split hairs to try to paint orange man bad, and get all your butties to star you until you scamper off till 2020, or you can realize what is happening in the world you live in, and see if perhaps Trump isn't Hitlers clone. Are you worried about NK nuking you as much as you were a year ago? If not, it must be something Obama did.

Sigh..... Here is the entire agreement that Trump and Kim signed, verbatim.

oint Statement of President Donald J. Trump of the United States of America and Chairman Kim Jong Un of the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea at the Singapore Summit

President Donald J. Trump of the United States of America and Chairman Kim Jong Un of the State Affairs Commission of the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea (DPRK) held a first, historic summit in Singapore on June 12, 2018.

President Trump and Chairman Kim Jong Un conducted a comprehensive, in-depth, and sincere exchange of opinions on the issues related to the establishment of new U.S.-DPRK relations and the building of a lasting and robust peace regime on the Korean Peninsula. President Trump committed to provide security guarantees to the DPRK, and Chairman Kim Jong Un reaffirmed his firm and unwavering commitment to complete denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula.

Convinced that the establishment of new U.S.-DPRK relations will contribute to the peace and prosperity of the Korean Peninsula and of the world, and recognizing that mutual confidence building can promote the denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula, President Trump and Chairman Kim Jong Un state the following:

[1]The United States and the DPRK commit to establish new U.S.-DPRK relations in accordance with the desire of the peoples of the two countries for peace and prosperity.
[2]The United States and the DPRK will join their efforts to build a lasting and stable peace regime on the Korean Peninsula.
[3]Reaffirming the April 27, 2018 Panmunjom Declaration, the DPRK commits to work toward complete denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula.
[4]The United States and the DPRK commit to recovering POW/MIA remains, including the immediate repatriation of those already identified.

Having acknowledged that the U.S.-DPRK summit — the first in history — was an epochal event of great significance in overcoming decades of tensions and hostilities between the two countries and for the opening up of a new future, President Trump and Chairman Kim Jong Un commit to implement the stipulations in this joint statement fully and expeditiously. The United States and the DPRK commit to hold follow-up negotiations, led by the U.S. Secretary of State, Mike Pompeo, and a relevant high-level DPRK official, at the earliest possible date, to implement the outcomes of the U.S.-DPRK summit.

President Donald J. Trump of the United States of America and Chairman Kim Jong Un of the State Affairs Commission of the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea have committed to cooperate for the development of new U.S.-DPRK relations and for the promotion of peace, prosperity, and security of the Korean Peninsula and of the world.

(Signed)

DONALD J. TRUMP

President of the United States of America

KIM JONG UN

Chairman of the State Affairs Commission of the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea

June 12, 2018

Sentosa Island

Singapore

LINK

Like I have pointed out several times before in this topic, not only has North Korea not begun the process of denuclearization it has moved forward instead.

Since the initial meeting between Mr. Trump and Mr. Kim, on June 12 in Singapore, the North has yet to take the first step toward denuclearization: providing the United States with a list of its nuclear sites, weapons, production facilities and missile bases. North Korean officials have told Mr. Pompeo that would amount to giving him a “target list.”

Also, Trump's own Secretary of State agrees that they are continuing to create new nuclear missile fissile material:

Weapons experts, as well as Mr. Pompeo, say that North Korea, despite engaging in denuclearization talks, continues to produce the fissile material that fuels nuclear arms. The North is believed to have about 40 to 60 nuclear warheads.

And..... what is your argument?

a reply to: Cancerwarrior

I don't even listen to these people anymore. I don't read their lame excuses and posts anymore. I don't entertain them in the real world.

I am done with the endless lies I have come to cringe at as soon as I hear them start down the line of talking points that some absolute tool of a person puked into their brain.

I didn't even read the OP. I don't even read the replies from propagandists and wannabe masters. anymore. Not really. I look for non-bastards, but I consistently find them anyways. Then I am repulsed.

It's like an animal making sounds. Who cares if it said "ooh ooh ahh ahh" or "bark bark."

When they fall in line all I see is: It wants something. It fears something. It's dumb and is trying to do something retarded. And so on.

Then I realize that this is getting worse and I start to prepare myself for the choice they have made for everyone.

They won't believe the result and it won't matter. They won't matter and it will be made right. Horrible in their eyes, glorious to ours.

Those responsible for this tyranny will lay down and die on command. They are already dead as far as I am concerned. No need to feel anything about it. Pigs in isht and all that.

When Pandora's box is opened though, we will take a shovel to hell so that we can heap it upon the smiling bastards.

We will not lose. That's all I focus on anymore. This is war. Erase them from history.