CA Gov is a complete idiot.

originally posted by: theantediluvian
a reply to: network dude

blaming something for an event that "is still under investigation" is premature and ignorant

Long before climate change was a hot button issue, California had fires. California had winds. So this event, however tragic it may be, is not something new, not something the deniers cooked up, and not something political.

So then Trump is an idiot? Because I'm pretty sure his first response was to essentially blame Jerry Brown for worsening wildfires.

in that context yes. I'm sure you just got a hint of a chub there, but calm down. I'm not quite ready to put Trump's head on a pike like you are. I do disagree with his timing, not so much his message.

In "the land of the pine", where I am at, Ft Bragg owns most of the forest land and they do controlled burns as does the park system here, to make sure the fuel for a fire is minimal. It keeps fresh undergrowth and makes walking in the woods possible. It also makes sure we don't have wildfires that engulf entire cities. Perhaps there is a huge difference in Cali that I don't get, and I can accept that. But to essentially blame those who don't buy into the anthropomorphic version of climate change is at the very best I can think of, idiotic. So Gov. Brown is a douche. (IMHO)

And Trump is still your president, and will be until the left finds a real leader, or he times out. Sorry.

@Olofu I work in the oil drilling industry in Canada and we give Mother Earth a proper in and out every day.

Trust me, she likes it.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: network dude

Blaming "someone" is the cause du jur.

The reality is, we are all to blame.

I saw pictures, several, showing those Tesla charging stations being powered by diesel generators. We do these things and want to believe we are pious...the reality is nothing in our economic model supports moving away from fossil fuels.

I guess a more appropriate statement is, if any of us are to blame we are all to blame. No doubt the climate is changing. We just want to bicker over cause. Expect any moves away from oil to be even uglier.

I was explaining that theory to my son the other day. Alternative energies cannot exist in a petrol dollar world. The balance of power is what keeps us dependent on oil. It's why the US has huge reserves, and could take over production leadership quickly, but chooses to hold back and use up Saudi oil first. When they dry up, we will hold all the cards, as long as oil is still the go to fuel source. I could rant about conspiracies, but there is enough factual information that they just aren't needed.

I can't help but wonder why hydrogen reclaiming stations powered by solar energy wouldn't be a net gain for the environment, but some science guy who just got done berating me to not believing in manbearpig, will tell me how inefficient that is and how much natural resources it takes to make solar panels. So fill er up with unleaded please. Oh wait, you have to do that on your own now.

originally posted by: luthier
There really aren't many people outside of politics who dont believe climate change is being expedited by man.

The question is how much does man contribute. If we contribute 2%, it's kind of a moot point. There is no consensus on how much man is to blame.

originally posted by: 38181
There is a US based Aerial Firefighting Company with 10 fire water bombing Aircraft, based in Chico, CA. U.S. Company with U.S employees. 10 miles away from the Camp Fire. They were not requested or used by the State of California. Homes burned and people died. Heads need to roll.

According to the CALFIRE reports, the fire was first reported at about 6:30 AM. By 8:40 AM, the fire was already near the edge of Paradise, and the entire town was under mandatory evacuation. This was because the fire was being driven by hot, dry, downslope winds coming off the Sierras at speeds up to 50 MPH.

I don't think safety regulations would have allowed them to fly tankers in 50 MPH winds down the Feather River canyon 150 feet above the ground. When the winds get above about 25 MPH, it's unsafe to fly within 200 feet of the ground (which is where they have to be in order to have any positive effect). Also, high winds blow the retardant off target and disperse it, which renders it useless. There was a somewhat similar situation a couple of years ago in Gatlinburg, Tennessee where more than 2000 homes and 14 lives were lost when a wildfire burned in to the town. There were aerial fire tankers nearby, but they weren't used because the winds were too high.

I'm not trying to be snarky, but CALFIRE might actually have known what they were doing. This wasn't their first rodeo.

a reply to: lordcomac

I've heard firemen refer to blue gum trees (the eucalyptus you're talking about) as "Gasoline Trees"

They were brought over for timber. People realised they brought the wrong species and decided to use them for things like wind breaks etc. They then spread like crazy throughout the state.

They look out of place and ugly in California. In Australia the expansive dense forests of eucalyptus are gorgeous.

a reply to: 1947boomer
The News showed Cal Fire Helicopters flying, dumping water, Zero Airplanes, they all went to the SoCal fires.

a reply to: network dude

Good old right wing leaning PJ media. Good to know that if I wanna catch up on all my Right Wing news all I have to do is come to ATS.

originally posted by: Swills
a reply to: network dude

Good old right wing leaning PJ media. Good to know that if I wanna catch up on all my Right Wing news all I have to do is come to ATS.

Would be nice to get a well thought out and written left perspective. There are about 4 posters here capable of it.

The rest look pretty much like this.

originally posted by: misskat1
Interesting article in the LA times

thefederalistpapers.org... Xibsg-bGbVLiTWTkUXk

California forests have grown dryer and less healthy from overcrowded trees, infestations of bark beetles and the effects of climate change, the Las Angeles Times writes. California’s restrictions on active forest management have contributed to the poor and worsening conditions of the forests, allowing them to grow uninhibited while suppressing fires that would normally naturally control the forests’ growth.

Add to that the recently approved forestry method of slash and spray where they cut the trees and spray them with poison to kill off unwanted species (mostly pine and scrub oaks). This leaves entire standing forests of dead trees ready to go up with the smallest spark. Some smart thinking there, I'm sure it saved those logging companies a bundle and whoever approved it got a nice return on their investment.

originally posted by: Swills
a reply to: network dude

Good old right wing leaning PJ media. Good to know that if I wanna catch up on all my Right Wing news all I have to do is come to ATS.

wow, I was worried nobody would be able to explain why AGW deniers were to blame. Since you are here, how about you do the honors. I mean, it's a crap source, pick it apart.

originally posted by: 38181
a reply to: 1947boomer
The News showed Cal Fire Helicopters flying, dumping water, Zero Airplanes, they all went to the SoCal fires.

I've seen video of those helicopters in action. The phrase "pissing on a forest fire" comes to mind.


But nice to know the big planes are all busy making sure Caitlin Jenner and Martin Sheen don't lose their Malibu mansions.

originally posted by: AndyFromMichigan
Trump was 100% correct. California wasted/embezzled the billions of dollars that they were given for forest management. The primary purpose of forest management (at least in a dry state like California) is to mitigate the potential damage wildfires can cause. That's why they're having such bad wildfires. The 0.01 degree increase in temperature climate change has caused over the past few years is irrelevant.

At some point one wonders if this type of stuff is on purpose.

Create state of emergency environment
Wait for the inevitable
Declare state of emergency
Receive nice federal payday.

originally posted by: eXia7
Manage your damn forests, and stop blaming it on the boogeyman.

The fires didn't happen in forests.

originally posted by: Blue Shift

originally posted by: eXia7
Manage your damn forests, and stop blaming it on the boogeyman.

The fires didn't happen in forests.

Did they spread to forests?

originally posted by: Wardaddy454
Did they spread to forests?

Stayed pretty much in rolling grasslands and people's houses.

No dude... the reason there are wildfires are because you've squandered all of the money the government has given you to manage the environment, and now these are the consequences.


Manage your damn forests, and stop blaming it on the boogeyman.

More Trump fanboy ignorance. Some 60% of California lands are under some form of Federal land management. Many of the worst fires in California have occurred on Federal land, including last years historically large 410k + acre Ranch fire, which consumed predominantly Federally controlled and "maintained" lands.

Maybe Trump should actually check facts before spouting ridiculous comments. If they are mismanaged, they are no more so than lands the Federal government is responsible for. But hey, don't let facts get in the way of another ignorant, ruthless and misinformed comment from Trump. He is very quick to point the finger at others. Never.. literally never.. at himself, or anything he is in charge of.

He could have more diplomatically said that both the local and Federal government needs to reevaluate how they manage the land to prevent these disasters, but naw.. it's California's fault! And we are going to stop aid to teach you a lesson!

Weather or not climate change is man made

I see what ya did there.

He's been one in the past1975–1983 - and later 2011–present.

California über alles - Dead Kennedys

I am Governor Jerry Brown My aura smiles and never frowns Soon I will be president
Carter power will soon go 'way
I will be Führer one day I will command all of you
Your kids will meditate in school
Your kids will meditate in school
California Über Alles...

Zen fascists will control you
Hundred percent natural You will jog for the master race
And always wear the happy face
Close your eyes, can't happen here Big Bro' on white horse is near
The hippies won't come back, you say Mellow out or you will pay Mellow out or you will pay
California Über Alles...

Now it is nineteen eighty-four Knock-knock at your front door
It's the suede denim secret police
They have come for your uncool niece
Come quietly to the camp
You'd look nice as a drawstring lamp Don't you worry, it's only a shower For your clothes, here's a pretty flower
Die on organic poison gas
Serpent's egg's already hatched
You will croak, you little clown When you mess with
President Brown When you mess with President Brown
California Über Alles...

-Source

a reply to: network dude

I think they just need a tax. That will fix everything. I think it should be a county tax. Voted on by the people. That way, if you live in a strongly blue county, and you want to fix the environment, then you pay the tax. If you live in a red county, and realize its complete bull# to tax carbon, well then your county doesnt pay. Seems simple to me, tax the idiots.

Camain