How does Evolution explain Male and Female - Why are there two sexes Creating Genetic Variations ?

damn sorry, quadruple post. Not sure what happened there, maybe this site is getting throttled by my isp. It took forever then posted 4 times.

dp

dp

originally posted by: AlienView
Surely there must be a reason why Evolution is seeking this wider gene pool and variations.

Evolution is not a conscious entity, it doesn't seek anything. Genetic diversity is just what works best for long term survival. DNA experiences copy error during replication that can sometimes affect morphology in a positive or negative way based on the environment they live in.

Otherwise those pesky Creationists and nuts like me who belienve we are part of an 'alien experiment'
will continue to believe in our delusions - Help us out - Tell us what the underlying science of Evolution is?

For the record evolution isn't against the alien experiment idea, but if they did it they did it over a 3 million year period to develop the homo genus. That seems a little extreme and oddly enough goes at the same pace that evolution naturally goes.

www.talkorigins.org...

Underlying evidence.

originally posted by: sapien82
a reply to: Whatsthisthen

In both the mayan and egyptian creation myth , they speak of engineering humans , and changing them !

Mayan book

the humans were asked by the gods, how is your life " they replied, its fantastic, we see everything, we see the four corners of the world , the longer we look the more we see nothing goes unnoticed"

having told the gods this , they were angry , they remade the humans less than they were , the gods having said they were too much like us and would have caused many problems!

Atum the primary being of egyptian myth , having , masturbated himself into existence, then created the other gods and made humans from the dark pool of the abyss !

he also remade humans as they were too much like the gods!

seems like we have been engineered and manipulated a lot !

I also believe I have witnessed a visitation from Kali Ma !

Well basically, from my experience anyway, here on earth I see no evidence of anything that can be called natural evolution.

Everything to be found in the land of the dead is the result of technology.

Asimov said:

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

To understand mythology and magic apply Asimov's saying to the past; retrospectively.

The gods may have created humans, but the gods were not divine themselves to begin with.

Edit. Kali Ma, be careful of god's, always remember they have their own agendas.

originally posted by: moebius

originally posted by: AlienView
If you want to say anything is possible, sure anything is possible - But the probability of this experiment occuring by
accident is incredibly small - And I do like long shots but I won't bet on that one.

That is your ego speaking again.

Anything that is possible will happen eventually. That is a fact.

Hmmm that is NOT a fact..but nice try.

And could never be proven..either.

a reply to: sapien82

"Well consider the odds of a universe to begin with ?

What re the odds that physical properties of materials would occur giving rise to a universe with multi billions of galaxies each with potential solar system to harbor one planet with conditions ripe for life!

The fact there is already a universe with material objects to begin with is pretty mind blowing , what are the chances that would happen , never mind life !.........."

The odds of the universe are exactly 100% - The only alternative is nothing and nothing does not exist.

Another words we can not get behind the existent state - You can not prove the existence of nothing!

On the other hand, sexual reproduction and genetic outcomes has an intelligent design appearance [don't give a damn if that sounds religious - Intelligence is fact - religion is belief] .

The play out of an intellegent process may or may not have any relation to religion - But like Evolution it is observable.

There have been a couple of good scientific analysis of the sex phenomena given in this thread - good attempts
to give the sex aspect of Evoulution some meaning.

But I sill question 'the odds of events transpring this way by random chance - Again I could see life occurring here,
and in other parts of the universe by 'luck of the draw' so to speak - But sexual reproduction and genetics
smells like intelligence!

And that is still my AlienView from the Matrix

a reply to: AlienView

The odds of the universe are exactly 100% - The only alternative is nothing and nothing does not exist.

I often state it thusly; once something happens the odds against it are irrelevant.

originally posted by: moebius

originally posted by: AlienView
AlienView says that if you give a million monkeys a million typewriters, not one page of the Encyclopedia Britannica
would ever appear.

And that is where you are wrong.

A random generator would produce one page of the Encyclopedia Britannica at some point.

In the observable universe you have 10 billion galaxies. Every galaxy has about 100 billion stars. Most of the stars have planets. A large part of those planets have organic compounds. A small number of those planets will develop simple single-celled life. An even smaller number of planets with single cellular life will develop multicellular life. An even smaller number of those planets will develop two sexes.

The chance might be incredibility small. But it is not zero. And given the 1 billion trillion stars in the universe it is bound to happen.

First of all no actual evidence of all these stars has ever been found...pretty cool how everyone believes they are seeing all these galaxies when it could be all one galaxy...and noone can see and number all that..anyways.

Second of all..no random generator exists...why would something generate things randomly for no reason.

The random idea is as unlikely as any religious explanation but loved by imaginary science followers.

We need some actual proof of seeing other galaxies actually existing in these numbers...not saying it is not true but what actual proof is there.

ZERO..that is how much..this galaxy is apparently so massive one cannot explore it with warp drive in 100 years...yet supposedly we can see all of this other stuff from INSIDE of it....truly amazing how much is just believed without question.

The entire narrative given to us could be entirely faked, but none of you care..almost as if you NEED to believe in that which is entirely unprovable.

a reply to: AlienView

parasitism

a reply to: ParasuvO

First of all no actual evidence of all these stars has ever been found...pretty cool how everyone believes they are seeing all these galaxies when it could be all one galaxy

Don't believe in telescopes? Never looked through one?

You should try it sometime.

originally posted by: AlienView
a reply to: sapien82

(..)

On the other hand, sexual reproduction and genetic outcomes has an intelligent design appearance [don't give a damn if that sounds religious - Intelligence is fact - religion is belief] .

This is a false conclusion, giving the "intelligence" part in "intelligent design" the worth of "intelligence is fact".
The whole statement of "intelligence design" in itself is still religion and belief, as it beliefs in an intelligent designer, aka a god.

a reply to: ParasuvO

You should really, REALLY rethink your signature pic: Dr. Manhattan would like to have a word with you!

Your complete posting has nothing to do with science (which the doc is full of, literally), and you seem to know very little about astronomy itself. I cannot even critizise your posting in a neutral way, as it just shows how many parts of science are a mystery to you.

Just... remove the pic of doc manhattan, it does so not fit your online personality.

a reply to: AlienView

Looking at the assumed universe on a grand scale... it looks pretty organic to me, in the chaotic sense. But even stars are born by matter fusing together. We just cant comprehend th complexity of it because the time span is so vast compared to our own lifespan.
I bet even a fly living for one day would marvel at human babies if it had mind.

Diversity is natures way of securing sustainable life. Mutations are bound to happen during repition of the same genepool, which also makes it easier for germs and bacteria to adapt.
But at the same time diversity also helps evolution over time.

Imagine a uniform race of only men or only women. Of one color... we would be the mamal version of snails and evolve at the same pace.

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

originally posted by: Nothin

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14
Well, there or may not be a “why.” But when people claim they know if there is or not, or what precisely it is, is when I question.

That’s when they step out of science and into philosophy and personal belief.

For the evolutionists on here, it is a belief not scientific fact that there is zero meaning or direction to the universe. Could be true, but you can neither test nor falsify that hypothesis given current constraints.

A lot of people including scientists don’t acknowledge when they’ve left the realm of verifiable science and walked into the realm of speculation. It’s totally fine to do so, but lay people need to know it’s beyond the envelope.

a reply to: Nothin

Indeed: we are also engaging in opinion, if we say that there is no why, or that there must be a why.
Good catch!

Agreed that there may have been some scientism in this thread, but personally: not up to challenging any of it.

Yeah, def. I think that inherently all people step out into belief and speculation, and it’s cool to do so. Sometimes though secular folks will claim that it’s a scientific fact, not belief, that there is no spirituality, or meaning, or a number of things.

Obviously the other side believes their ideas too, but fewer claim it to be literal scientific fact.

Ya.
Some of us believe what we think.

Personally don't remember why we became 2 sexes, rather than one. My DNA was supposedly 'there'.
If was asked now: would probably suggest about; 14, 42, or 137. You know: just for entertainment, or other purposes.

OK truth seekers I found a good answer at to why 'THEY' decided to go the experimental sex route......

Here it is:

"Advantages of sex and sexual reproduction:
The concept of sex includes two fundamental phenomena: the sexual process (fusion of genetic information of two individuals) and sexual differentiation (separation of this information into two parts). Depending on the presence or absence of these phenomena, the existing ways of reproduction can be divided into asexual, hermaphrodite and dioecious forms. The sexual process and sexual differentiation are different phenomena, and, in essence, are diametrically opposed. The first creates (increases) diversity of genotypes, and the second decreases it by half. Reproductive advantages of the asexual forms are in quantity of the progeny and the advantages of the hermaphrodite forms – in maximum diversity. Transition from the hermaphrodite to dioecious state leads to a loss of at least half of the diversity. So, the main question is to explain the advantages given by sexual differentiation, i.e. the benefits of two separate sexes compared to hermaphrodites rather than to explain benefits of sexual forms (hermaphrodite + dioecious) over asexual ones. It has already been understood that since sexual reproduction is not associated with any clear reproductive advantages, as compared with asexual, there should be some important advantages in evolution.[9]

Advantages due to genetic variation:
For the advantage due to genetic variation, there are three possible reasons this might happen. First, sexual reproduction can combine the effects of two beneficial mutations in the same individual (i.e. sex aids in the spread of advantageous traits). Also, the necessary mutations do not have to have occurred one after another in a single line of descendants.[10][unreliable source?] Second, sex acts to bring together currently deleterious mutations to create severely unfit individuals that are then eliminated from the population (i.e. sex aids in the removal of deleterious genes). However, in organisms containing only one set of chromosomes, deleterious mutations would be eliminated immediately, and therefore removal of harmful mutations is an unlikely benefit for sexual reproduction. Lastly, sex creates new gene combinations that may be more fit than previously existing ones, or may simply lead to reduced competition among relatives. For the advantage due to DNA repair, there is an immediate large benefit of removing DNA damage by recombinational DNA repair during meiosis, since this removal allows greater survival of progeny with undamaged DNA. The advantage of complementation to each sexual partner is avoidance of the bad effects of their deleterious recessive genes in progeny by the masking effect of normal dominant genes contributed by the other partner. The classes of hypotheses based on the creation of variation are further broken down below............."

See whole article here:
en.wikipedia.org...

Of course this still does not answer whether this type reproduction would occur in the natural course of Evolution - or whether
Evoulution does in fact have a 'natural course'

And if Evolution does not have a so called natural course - Why does it go where it goes?

Do you still want to believe that sex occurs as a perfectly natural result of Evolutionary process?

Some might think nothing happens naturally, as what does naturally really mean?

Again you can't see, but you can perceive an external mind at work.

And if nothing else we are part of a matrix we can not understand..........as of yet!

A very thought-provoking thread. I have enjoyed reading through the replies. I personally believe these types of questions are unanswerable with our current framework of knowledge. Maybe in the future another Einstein-type figure will have the technology and the brains necessary to figure out these big questions for us.

The world is spinning and wont stop. Jump on board and get In sync with her and humans beings can create and evolve into tremendous beings.

But not all humans are the same, some are naturally harder and smarter than others.

Some are more simple and live off the land type

Some groups survive some dissapear

Male and female is the only way to reproduce.
And pairing up the right families can lead to stronger and smarter next generations.

Its too hard to evolve in one lifetime. It takes multiple generations of all being on the same page.

a reply to: ParasuvO

Read a book and get educated:

The Quantum Universe: (And Why Anything That Can Happen, Does) First Trade Paper Ed Edition
by Brian Cox (Author), Jeff Forshaw (Author)

www.amazon.com...

Of course, if you have an alternative theory, let's hear it.

many of humanities civilsations have creation myths where humans at one point can reproduce through parthenogenesis liek some other plants /

th hermetic view is that we humans lived in different states, the mineral , the spiritual and the animal
humans reproduced like plants did before we were altered and reproduced by sex.

The african tribe of the Zulu , their creation myth states that we were altered and given sexual organs to mate so we could keep replenishing our numbers by the chitauri "lizard people"

I think if evolution is somehow working through DNA , then sexual reproduction seems the easiest way to propagate DNA , 1 male can fertilise many females in one day .