How does Evolution explain Male and Female - Why are there two sexes Creating Genetic Variations ?

a reply to: cooperton

And you, the ultimate narcissist, continue to spew opinions that have no evidence, no context, only bits and pieces of you paste together into a complete fraud.

Answer the questions:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

OK - Now let the party begin [after all "The Future is Now", right?]

God, god, god - Do they have any idea what they are talking about? - If a god [God] exists 'they' would blaspheme [how's
that for a religous concept?] over and over and over again till they ended up in a world were only the Atheists could be
righteous - Are we here yet?

Let me take you somewhere else - let's pretend - both religious fanatics and Atheists are good at pretending
- But now I will tell you about a universe that is not a fairytale of pretenses and unfounded assumptions.

In this world a species of being - those beings in the UFO craft that seem capable of traveling in ways Human science
is not yet capable - Beings that existed eons before Man even conceived that he 'might' be intelligent - Beings who
traveled through Worlds and Dimensions the Human mind can not yet imagine - And yet would not dare make
claims as to the orgin of a Multiverse which they explore by allowing its unfoldment without prejudicial opinions
- beings that the obtuse mind of Man might still evolve to a level where communication is possible - Biengs that
still believe that Human intelligence is possible?

My Imagination? - No, your imagination - That is what we want - We want beings whose imagination is capable of
imagining the unimaginable - Beings who can imagine a World, a Universe, so vast, so splendid, so beyond any
science of today so as to accept that this World is primeval and you are still not much evolved beyond an ape.

But we want more than an ape - Why we were with you then - Why we are with you now.

Ready Human - "THE FUTURE IS NOW" !!!

Tosday's quotes are by Max Planck, winner of the Nobel Prize in physics for his work in Quantum Mechanics.
[In the 20th Century two of the biggest were Einstein [Relativity] and Planck [Quantum Theory
- Plank is more interesting philosophically]


“All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force which brings the particle of an atom to vibration and holds this most minute solar system of the atom together. We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent mind. This mind is the matrix of all matter.”
― Max Planck


“Religion and natural science are fighting a joint battle in an incessant, never relaxing crusade against skepticism and against dogmatism, against unbelief and superstition... [and therefore] 'On to God!”
― Max Planck


“If you change the way you look at things, the things you look at change”
― Max Planck

a reply to: AlienView

I'm a bit weary of Max Planck quotes. He doesn't really say anything useful.

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: TzarChasm

Why [ do you think human intelligence has to be more than dumb luck]? Because of your fragile ego and sense of relevance?

No because we are bi-pedal, rational, encephalized, self-repairing, self-replicating organic supercomputers. This does not happen by accident.

Ultimately, a "reason for existing" just gets in the way of having fun and making the most of what you have.

Then why do you peruse internet forums arguing about the origins of existence? If there is no point to reasoning your existence, you should not even voice your opinion, especially since it inspires hopelessness and nihilism. You are endorsing a dead end nihilist philosophy.

We are great apes struggling to accept our inevitable mortality and the need to control it by bargaining with an indifferent reality that doesn't need us or even want us, and that scares the crap out of us. If you interpret that as meaningless, it's because you lack imagination and depend on other people to fill in the blanks for you. I don't rely on evolution or science to tell me what my life is worth or what I should do with it. I decide that stuff.

I continue to indulge in this forum on the off chance someone actually posts something magical and awe inspiring. Still waiting for that to happen. Mostly just boring reposts spouting the same tired cult language. But I'm a stubborn person, so here I am.

originally posted by: Blue_Jay33
These bible texts penned in the first century by the Apostle Paul without doubt inspired by God because he could look into the future to see Evolution would be a thing, and these verses address them better than any other in the bible.

You say without a doubt, when you are referring to old stories that are believed out of faith! Your verse had zero to do with evolution, it had to do with placing blind faith in a creator and not questioning it. LOL @ claiming that's the equivalent of knowledge or fact.

He called it pretty accurately centuries before Darwin spouted his conjectural hypothetical theory.

www.talkorigins.org...

That's conjecture? Sorry dawg, as badly as you want it to be true, you got no argument against any of it.

originally posted by: cooperton
No because we are bi-pedal, rational, encephalized, self-repairing, self-replicating organic supercomputers. This does not happen by accident.

All you ever post is anecdotes. ACCIDENT IMPLIES INTENTION. We are not an accident, we are the result of natural processes. Funny how you completely abandoned your arguments about epigenetics when I asked you to explain the conflict with evolution and twice you ignored that and diverted to something else. You wonder why people are hard on you... At least be honest.

Then why do you peruse internet forums arguing about the origins of existence? If there is no point to reasoning your existence, you should not even voice your opinion, especially since it inspires hopelessness and nihilism. You are endorsing a dead end nihilist philosophy.

You literally have no arguments. Not believing in a divine purpose does not mean somebody can't have purpose in life or care about the future of the human race. Such a pathetic attitude, trying to tell others what they believe about purpose simply because they don't buy your alleged purpose.

originally posted by: Barcs
"No because we are bi-pedal, rational, encephalized, self-repairing, self-replicating organic supercomputers. This does not happen by accident."

All you ever post is anecdotes.

All those descriptors of the human body are facts, not anecdotal. Do you want me to post a peer-reviewed article proving that humans have legs, can think, have the highest brain to body ratio among animals, can repair their self, and can reproduce? Think for your self, you don't need peer-reviewed articles to tell you how to think. Empirical data is nice, but as we see you all will ignore it if it offends your material-reductionist religion.

Funny how you completely abandoned your arguments about epigenetics when I asked you to explain the conflict with evolution

Epigenetics work by changing the expression of a particular gene. All organisms require epigenetic modification as demonstrated by its presence in the most rudimentary prokaryotes. Epigenetics are necessary because without regulation on a gene, it will be either over-expressed or under-expressed leading to homeostatic catastrophe. So if every gene needs epigenetic modification, and evolution is theorized to be a piece-by-piece mutative addition to function, how could a novel gene arise along with its necessary epigenetic modifiers?? This chicken-or-the-egg dilemma arises over, and over, and over again when you actually question the details of evolutionary theory. A gene is malignant or inert without epigenetic modification, and epigenetic modification is erroneous without the gene that it modifies.

You literally have no arguments.

Now that's just patently false. See above, or past posts.

Not believing in a divine purpose does not mean somebody can't have purpose in life or care about the future of the human race. Such a pathetic attitude, trying to tell others what they believe about purpose simply because they don't buy your alleged purpose.

You are building a straw man. I was saying that nihilists, if they are truly adherent to their ideals of meaninglessness, should not even waste their breathe voicing their opinions, because by definition of their own religion, everything is meaningless (including their own opinion).

originally posted by: Phantom423
a reply to: cooperton

And you, the ultimate narcissist, continue to spew opinions that have no evidence, no context, only bits and pieces of you paste together into a complete fraud.

Answer the questions:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Haha that's a link to Peter Vlar going on an angry rant. What exactly do you want me to answer? He still insists that "epigenetic mutations is actually nothing more than the way genes are expressing themselves after an SNP event." And never admitted that is entirely wrong, yet goes on to say he can school me on various aspects of epigenetics.

a reply to: cooperton


Oh poor precious, it seems I’ve struck a nerve.

I haven’t admitted that I’m wrong because I’m not. All you support your position with is misinterpretation of data that you don’t understand. I support mine with actual science, science I have done myself despite your assertions that everyone who understands how evolution works simply parrots what someone else tells them to think. I’m not a google ninja hoping that the argument I want to make can be pulled from something online. I’ve dug the pits, I’ve cleaned the fossils, measured the attachment point scars, ran the numbers to determine muscle mass and done the actual work. You’re an undereducated and willfully ignorant, minor point of amusement. Nothing more. So best of luck with your continued delusions of grandeur while attempting to use QM as an argument against Evolution because it’s a distraction from actual facts. Facts that seem to elude you on the regular.

For the record, I have repeatedly and will, for as long as you post your petty “material-reductionist religion bull s#” ad hominems as if every thought you express aloud is suddenly fact because you willed it into existence like your magical, anthropomorphic lord of pettiness willed the universe into existence exactly as written down by Hebrew shepherds 2400 years ago, continue to school you on any aspect of the Modern Evutionary Synthesis in general and hominid evolution specifically because you haven’t got a clue what you’re talking about. You’re another hack cut from the ICR’s own cloth and using Ken Ham as your Gish Galloping role model.

a reply to: cooperton

But how do we detect an instance of divine interference? How do we measure its properties and determine its nature and source? Blood type, chemical composition, electromagnetic charge, biological classification? Anything to take pictures of or put in a jar or get a DNA sample from? Induce repeat events to establish a pattern and a cause? Anything like that would be very helpful.

originally posted by: peter vlar
a reply to: cooperton
I haven’t admitted that I’m wrong because I’m not.

So you still think "epigenetic mutations is actually nothing more than the way genes are expressing themselves after an SNP event."

Please explain your self-perceived infallibility, because that is not how anyone else on earth believes how epigenetics work.

originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: cooperton

But how do we detect an instance of divine interference? How do we measure its properties and determine its nature and source? Blood type, chemical composition, electromagnetic charge, biological classification? Anything to take pictures of or put in a jar or get a DNA sample from? Induce repeat events to establish a pattern and a cause? Anything like that would be very helpful.

Just outside of town, there is rumoured to be a Heavenly-Hardware shop.
It is said that upon entering: walk past the Intention-Instrumentation section, and right on by the Concept-Checkers display and the Weight-of-Words scales.

Then one supposedly turns right at the 'How-Nice-is-it-out-Today?' and 'How-Tight-are-Those-Yoga-Pants?' counters, and continues past the Love-O-Meters, and on past the Funniness-Sensors, Idea-Indicators, Stupidity-Samplers, Silliness-Scopes, Dream-Display-Monitors, and the Beauty-Gauges.

Word is that one then approaches the back service counter, and says to the man: " I would like to measure the immeasurable".
He might reply: "Sorry sir. We don't have any Stink-O-Meters to measure the olfactory intensity of anal-Chinooks".
That may be because the boss at the shop next door, always sends his new employees in there, to ask for those.

One may then hold steady, and let him know that the interest is in quantifying divinity, and divine intervention.

originally posted by: cooperton
All those descriptors of the human body are facts, not anecdotal.

None of them proved a single thing about anything! You are just sensationalizing them as if they are unthinkable without a designer. It makes no sense and once again it does nothing to support your arguments.

Do you want me to post a peer-reviewed article proving that humans have legs, can think, have the highest brain to body ratio among animals, can repair their self, and can reproduce?

Nope, but if you are suggesting those things are indicative of design or that evolution is wrong, you need to explain it and show where the connection is. Just listing a bunch of facts about humans, says ZERO in relation to this thread.

Epigenetics work by changing the expression of a particular gene.

We established this already.

All organisms require epigenetic modification as demonstrated by its presence in the most rudimentary prokaryotes.

I already refuted this and you ignored it. Modern day prokaryotes have evolved for more than 3 billion years. Finding such a change in a modern organism DOES NOT mean all organisms require those mutation nor does it mean the original ones had those same abilities. That's a complete joke of an argument.

Epigenetics are necessary because without regulation on a gene, it will be either over-expressed or under-expressed leading to homeostatic catastrophe.

Gene expression is not just related to epigenetics. Epigenetics only affects some specific genes that are able to be turned off or on during one's life. Gene expression happens just fine without it.

So if every gene needs epigenetic modification

They don't.

and (if) evolution is theorized to be a piece-by-piece mutative addition to function, how could a novel gene arise along with its necessary epigenetic modifiers??

Genetic mutations and natural selection, just like all the others.

Again, there is ZERO conflict with evolution.

Now that's just patently false. See above, or past posts.

I should have said no logically valid or good arguments. I thought that was implied and very obvious.

You are building a straw man. I was saying that nihilists, if they are truly adherent to their ideals of meaninglessness, should not even waste their breathe voicing their opinions, because by definition of their own religion, everything is meaningless (including their own opinion).

Complete BS. I am not building any straw man, you literally called him a nihilist because he doesn't believe in YOUR purpose of life. You assumed that automatically means he thinks everything is pointless, including correcting false claims made by creationists. Sorry that's not how it works. Not having a divine purpose of life has absolutely nothing to do with meaning in one's own life, or caring about the future of humans or intellectual honesty. Maybe some people care about their children and grandchildren and don't want them being raised in a world full of morons, or a world that ends up destroying itself over ancient fables and myths. Claiming that you can't care about things in life or the way the world works, simply because somebody doesn't buy into your perceived divine purpose of life, is ridiculous.

originally posted by: Barcs
Modern day prokaryotes have evolved for more than 3 billion years.

Absurdly wild claims require rigorous evidence. Where is the evidence to back your claim? Keep it empirical, no science blog hear-say.

Finding such a change in a modern organism DOES NOT mean all organisms require those mutation nor does it mean the original ones had those same abilities. That's a complete joke of an argument.

All known organisms require epigenetic mechanisms yet you think its a complete joke to assume that yet-to-be-known organisms would also require epigenetic modification? You're worse than a brick wall.

Gene expression is not just related to epigenetics. Epigenetics only affects some specific genes that are able to be turned off or on during one's life. Gene expression happens just fine without it.

No gene expression would be a lethal catastrophe without modification. Lack of epigenetic modification is intimately related to cancer



without constant epigenetic control, a cell is vulnerable to malignancy. So no, gene expression does not "happen just fine without it."

Genetic mutations and natural selection, just like all the others.

Ahh yes, the typical "evolution did it" argument. Just don't ever ridicule someone for saying "God did it".

a reply to: cooperton

I’m sure you can support your claim that all organisms REQUIRE epigenetics for gene expression right? There are a multitude of changes at the genetic level, Including SNP events that you refuse to discuss,’that lead to variation in gene expression. Your insistence that everything hinges on epigenetics or the epigenetics rules out the MES is sheer next level insanity and devoid of evidence. Please prove me wrong and support this claim though.i would love to be proven wrong by you.

a reply to: peter vlar

Why should I even converse with you if you will never admit when you're wrong? I'll show you all the evidence you want, but just admit you're wrong with this statement:

"epigenetic mutations is actually nothing more than the way genes are expressing themselves after an SNP event."

originally posted by: cooperton
Absurdly wild claims require rigorous evidence. Where is the evidence to back your claim? Keep it empirical, no science blog hear-say.

Absurdly wild claims? After you just finish stating that epigenetic abilities in prokaryotes today means it is required for all life to ever exist and for expression of every single gene for every species?

Fossils of single celled life has been discovered that dates 3.5 billion + years back. That backs up the claim that they have been evolving for at least 3.5 billion years.

All known organisms require epigenetic mechanisms yet you think its a complete joke to assume that yet-to-be-known organisms would also require epigenetic modification?

Back this claim up. You have repeated it multiple times.

Gene expression is the process by which information from a gene is used in the synthesis of a functional gene product. These products are often proteins, but in non-protein coding genes such as transfer RNA (tRNA) or small nuclear RNA (snRNA) genes, the product is a functional RNA.

The process of gene expression is used by all known life—eukaryotes (including multicellular organisms), prokaryotes (bacteria and archaea), and utilized by viruses—to generate the macromolecular machinery for life.

Several steps in the gene expression process may be modulated, including the transcription, RNA splicing, translation, and post-translational modification of a protein. Gene regulation gives the cell control over structure and function, and is the basis for cellular differentiation, morphogenesis and the versatility and adaptability of any organism. Gene regulation may also serve as a substrate for evolutionary change, since control of the timing, location, and amount of gene expression can have a profound effect on the functions (actions) of the gene in a cell or in a multicellular organism.

In genetics, gene expression is the most fundamental level at which the genotype gives rise to the phenotype, i.e. observable trait. The genetic code stored in DNA is "interpreted" by gene expression, and the properties of the expression give rise to the organism's phenotype. Such phenotypes are often expressed by the synthesis of proteins that control the organism's shape, or that act as enzymes catalysing specific metabolic pathways characterising the organism. Regulation of gene expression is thus critical to an organism's development.

From wiki. Sorry epigenetics not required. Don't get me wrong, it can affect certain genes, but there are plenty of other ways it works without it.

No gene expression would be a lethal catastrophe without modification. Lack of epigenetic modification is intimately related to cancer

without constant epigenetic control, a cell is vulnerable to malignancy. So no, gene expression does not "happen just fine without it."

But most of the time it works fine. None of what you said is even related to epigenetics or its alleged "conflict" with evolution.

Ahh yes, the typical "evolution did it" argument. Just don't ever ridicule someone for saying "God did it".

Yeah, you know those repeatedly confirmed and proved mechanisms like genetic mutations and natural selection are totally faith based. Come on, man.

originally posted by: cooperton
a reply to: peter vlar

Why should I even converse with you if you will never admit when you're wrong? I'll show you all the evidence you want, but just admit you're wrong with this statement:

"epigenetic mutations is actually nothing more than the way genes are expressing themselves after an SNP event."

I do admit when I’m wrong. In the case you keep whining about however, I’m not. Don’t let the title in the link fool you, the paper demonstrates the importance of SNP’s doing the work that people who don’t actually understand epigenetics, like you, attribute solely to epigenetics. What you believe is epigenetics is actually the result of SNP’s. I could have been more concise in how I posited my earlier reply but in the end, I am correct and you are clueless and refuse to engage in appropriate due diligence. Again.

www.google.com...

Interesting; when legitimate scientific debate erupts it's outcome is always towards our own personal bias.
Maybe there are some points to be learned, but we are also in"ignore" mode just to win the actual debate.

Carry on......

originally posted by: peter vlar
a reply to: cooperton

I’m sure you can support your claim that all organisms REQUIRE epigenetics for gene expression right?

originally posted by: Barcs

From wiki. Sorry epigenetics not required. Don't get me wrong, it can affect certain genes, but there are plenty of other ways it works without it.

You guys are something else. Epigenetics is the modification of gene expression. Gene expression is the process of transcription and translation of a gene to form proteins, which can be modified according to physiological needs.

All organisms require gene expression transcription and translation, of which its modification is referred to as "epigenetics". This is basic stuff. You guys are literally denying basic biology to try to argue with me.

a reply to: cooperton

Yes when they can't debate the biological scientific facts this is what they do.......it's sad really.

Poor Evolutionists beaten by their own revered science.....