Any evidence of pre setup?

a reply to: TopSecretMan

The point I was trying to make wasn't the type of plane it was.
It was that aluminum cant penetrate steel

Really
Then how did a warheadless tomahawk penetrated both sides of a shipping container.

See Tomahawk missile strike a ship
m.youtube.com...

Or a 35,00Olbs B-25 flying slow penetrated the heavy masonry walls of the Empire State Building.

1945 Empire State Building B-25 crash
en.m.wikipedia.org...

At 9:40 a.m., the aircraft crashed into the north side of the Empire State Building, between the 78th and 80th floors, carving an 18-by-20-foot (5.5 m × 6.1 m) hole in the building[7] where the offices of the National Catholic Welfare Council were located. One engine shot through the South side opposite the impact and flew as far as the next block, dropping 900 feet (270 m) and landing on the roof of a nearby building and starting a fire that destroyed a penthouse art studio. The other engine and part of the landing gear plummeted down an elevator shaft. The resulting fire was extinguished in 40 minutes. It is still the only significant fire at such a height to be brought under control.[7]

You are trying to compare a Kawasaki Ki-61 with a weight of 7,000 LBS to a 767 that weighs over 200,000 lbs? A jet who’s wings were designed to hold over 40,000 lbs in fuel? The wing tip tank along holds over 2,000 pounds of fuel. A single wing of a 767 could support the weight of 5 ki-61’s. It’s not about density, it’s about energy. Again, 767 wing tip tank holds over 2,000 lbs. are you saying a 2,000 pound slug traveling over 400 mph could not take out a steel column?

a reply to: TopSecretMan

How did the 3rd building fall? Because it looked exactly the same way WTC collapsed.

Another blatantly false argument.

WTC 1 and 2 collapse was triggered by the bowing of outside Vertical columns that resulted in buckling. The top 11 or 29 floors fell into the building below. The falling mass broke floor connections leaving vertical columns standing in its wake. The core columns fell after the complete collapse of the floor system.

WTC 7. Thermal stress caused floor connections to break. Interior vertical columns lost lateral support. The columns buckled, and started an internal progressive collapse east to west. The penthouse completely fell below the roof line, then the outer facade collapsed because of buckling of exterior columns.

originally posted by: TopSecretMan

originally posted by: neutronflux

originally posted by: TopSecretMan

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: TopSecretMan

You might want to read your own link and do more research.....

USS Hinsdale (APA-120)

en.m.wikipedia.org...(APA-120)

Later investigation indicated that a Jap suicide plane, probably a Tony Kawasaki Ki-61 carrying three 132 lb. bombs hit the ship on the port side at the water line in the vicinity of frame 80.

Kawasaki Ki-61
en.m.wikipedia.org...

It says probably, meaning they don't know and nobody will if it was or not.
Just like jet fuel probably melts steel beams. But no one will know if it does or not.

One, there is a clear record of what ships were struck by the MXY7 Ohka

Two: by the size and placement of the holes in the Hinsdale, the impacts that show where the bombs were carried under the wings, and the wing marks on the Hinsdale, there is no way a MXY7 Ohka made those marks.

Yokosuka MXY-7 Ohka
en.m.wikipedia.org...
Wingspan: 5.12 m
Height: 1.16 m (3 ft 9⅓ in)
Loaded weight: 2,140 kg (4,718 lb)

The ship was holed in three places: A seven foot hole in the engine room at the water line caused by the engine and fuselage to which it is believed was attached a bomb which was the first explosion, a ten inch hole in the engine room about 2 feet above the water line caused by a bomb which was later discovered as a dud, and a four foot hole in Compartment A-304-EL a crew's berthing space, caused by a bomb which was the second explosion."

1st point. Wrong. If you read the article its not clear who the pilot was.

2nd point Look at the 10 inch hole. Its 2 feet above the water line. Hmmm so if that hole is 2 feet above waterline use it as a point of reference to find an estimate of wingspan.
I got around 16-18 ft wingspan from those statements.

3rd point. Okay okay now there is a 7 foot hole in the boat... tell me how a ki-61 that's 12 feet in height cause that hole with no dentation around the hole.

Kawasaki Ki-61 Hien & Ki-100
www.airvectors.net...

wingspan
12 meters

height
3.70 meters

loaded weight
3,470 kilograms

Three: one would have left soild fuel rocket motors in the wreckage. The other would have left a v-12 engine and propeller in the wreckage. No way the two would be confused.

Your statement of

It says probably, meaning they don't know and nobody will if it was or not.

Implying it might be a MXY7 Ohka is blatantly false and/or utterly ridiculous. That you are to lazy to even read your own Links.

You again

Just like jet fuel probably melts steel beams.

Please quote where NIST ever said the collapse of the WTC buildings was from melted steel.

Anymore blatantly false arguments by you?

The point I was trying to make wasn't the type of plane it was.
It was that aluminum cant penetrate steel. Look at the wing Marks. Why didn't it penetrate? But the dud bomb did?

Second part,
Also, I was being sarcastic..
Jet fuel can't melt steel beams.

Part 3
How did the 3rd building fall? Because it looked exactly the same way WTC collapsed.

I don't see any problem with 150+ tons travelling at 500mph destroying the wall of a building. Seems pretty obvious what the outcome should be


All three buidings collapsed because the structure could no longer support the weight of the structure. It's not rocket science

a reply to: TopSecretMan

Think about it. If it’s about density, not force and energy, how does wind remove shingles, metal roofing, and knock over structures?

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: TopSecretMan

The point I was trying to make wasn't the type of plane it was.
It was that aluminum cant penetrate steel

Really
Then how did a warheadless tomahawk penetrated both sides of a shipping container.

See Tomahawk missile strike a ship
m.youtube.com...

Or a 35,00Olbs B-25 flying slow penetrated the heavy masonry walls of the Empire State Building.

1945 Empire State Building B-25 crash
en.m.wikipedia.org...

At 9:40 a.m., the aircraft crashed into the north side of the Empire State Building, between the 78th and 80th floors, carving an 18-by-20-foot (5.5 m × 6.1 m) hole in the building[7] where the offices of the National Catholic Welfare Council were located. One engine shot through the South side opposite the impact and flew as far as the next block, dropping 900 feet (270 m) and landing on the roof of a nearby building and starting a fire that destroyed a penthouse art studio. The other engine and part of the landing gear plummeted down an elevator shaft. The resulting fire was extinguished in 40 minutes. It is still the only significant fire at such a height to be brought under control.[7]

You are trying to compare a Kawasaki Ki-61 with a weight of 7,000 LBS to a 767 that weighs over 200,000 lbs? A jet who’s wings were designed to hold over 40,000 lbs in fuel? The wing tip tank along holds over 2,000 pounds of fuel. A single wing of a 767 could support the weight of 5 ki-61’s. It’s not about density, it’s about energy. Again, 767 wing tip tank holds over 2,000 lbs. are you saying a 2,000 pound slug traveling over 400 mph could not take out a steel column?

The ship was holed in three places: A seven foot hole in the engine room at the water line caused by the engine and fuselage to which it is believed was attached a bomb which was the first explosion, a ten inch hole in the engine room about 2 feet above the water line caused by a bomb which was later discovered as a dud, and a four foot hole in Compartment A-304-EL a crew's berthing space, caused by a bomb which was the second explosion."

If not a warhead, a bomb attached to the engine.
Do a lil more research.

Did the B-25 cause the Empire State Building to Collapse.. no.



With all that energy... WTC shouldn't of collapsed.
www1.ae911truth.org...

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: TopSecretMan

Think about it. If it’s about density, not force and energy, how does wind remove shingles, metal roofing, and knock over structures?

Never said that... but wind doesn't destroy skyscrapers.

www.google.com...

originally posted by: TopSecretMan

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: TopSecretMan

The point I was trying to make wasn't the type of plane it was.
It was that aluminum cant penetrate steel

Really
Then how did a warheadless tomahawk penetrated both sides of a shipping container.

See Tomahawk missile strike a ship
m.youtube.com...

Or a 35,00Olbs B-25 flying slow penetrated the heavy masonry walls of the Empire State Building.

1945 Empire State Building B-25 crash
en.m.wikipedia.org...

At 9:40 a.m., the aircraft crashed into the north side of the Empire State Building, between the 78th and 80th floors, carving an 18-by-20-foot (5.5 m × 6.1 m) hole in the building[7] where the offices of the National Catholic Welfare Council were located. One engine shot through the South side opposite the impact and flew as far as the next block, dropping 900 feet (270 m) and landing on the roof of a nearby building and starting a fire that destroyed a penthouse art studio. The other engine and part of the landing gear plummeted down an elevator shaft. The resulting fire was extinguished in 40 minutes. It is still the only significant fire at such a height to be brought under control.[7]

You are trying to compare a Kawasaki Ki-61 with a weight of 7,000 LBS to a 767 that weighs over 200,000 lbs? A jet who’s wings were designed to hold over 40,000 lbs in fuel? The wing tip tank along holds over 2,000 pounds of fuel. A single wing of a 767 could support the weight of 5 ki-61’s. It’s not about density, it’s about energy. Again, 767 wing tip tank holds over 2,000 lbs. are you saying a 2,000 pound slug traveling over 400 mph could not take out a steel column?

Did the B-25 cause the Empire State Building to Collapse.. no.

Did it bounce off? No. But according to you it should have

Now feel free to ignore that and come up with some other excuse why you're not wrong




No such thing as an honest Truther

a reply to: TopSecretMan

So, how did the 200,000 pound plus 767s that might have as much as 40,000 pounds of fuel in each wing flying over 400mph not have the energy to take out hollow vertical columns with steel plate thickness that might have been down to 1/4” thick. The steel plates that the columns were made from thinned with the high of the towers.

originally posted by: Ghostsinthefog
So just starting to really take a look at, dig into the 9/11 worm hole.

The first question that comes to mind is to all the people that believe this was ab inside job. Now i understand both believe the towers were hit, but was also rigged with explosives.

To rig a tower with such a gigantic explosive device couldn't have gone unnoticed, so is there ant any evidence or testimony stating there was weird goings on... example... uncharted construction on the lower levels etc?

This is an interesting find www.wanttoknow.info...

originally posted by: mrthumpy

originally posted by: TopSecretMan

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: TopSecretMan

The point I was trying to make wasn't the type of plane it was.
It was that aluminum cant penetrate steel

Really
Then how did a warheadless tomahawk penetrated both sides of a shipping container.

See Tomahawk missile strike a ship
m.youtube.com...

Or a 35,00Olbs B-25 flying slow penetrated the heavy masonry walls of the Empire State Building.

1945 Empire State Building B-25 crash
en.m.wikipedia.org...

At 9:40 a.m., the aircraft crashed into the north side of the Empire State Building, between the 78th and 80th floors, carving an 18-by-20-foot (5.5 m × 6.1 m) hole in the building[7] where the offices of the National Catholic Welfare Council were located. One engine shot through the South side opposite the impact and flew as far as the next block, dropping 900 feet (270 m) and landing on the roof of a nearby building and starting a fire that destroyed a penthouse art studio. The other engine and part of the landing gear plummeted down an elevator shaft. The resulting fire was extinguished in 40 minutes. It is still the only significant fire at such a height to be brought under control.[7]

You are trying to compare a Kawasaki Ki-61 with a weight of 7,000 LBS to a 767 that weighs over 200,000 lbs? A jet who’s wings were designed to hold over 40,000 lbs in fuel? The wing tip tank along holds over 2,000 pounds of fuel. A single wing of a 767 could support the weight of 5 ki-61’s. It’s not about density, it’s about energy. Again, 767 wing tip tank holds over 2,000 lbs. are you saying a 2,000 pound slug traveling over 400 mph could not take out a steel column?

Did the B-25 cause the Empire State Building to Collapse.. no.

Did it bounce off? No. But according to you it should have

Now feel free to ignore that and come up with some other excuse why you're not wrong




No such thing as an honest Truther

Wrong.

originally posted by: TopSecretMan

originally posted by: mrthumpy

originally posted by: TopSecretMan

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: TopSecretMan

The point I was trying to make wasn't the type of plane it was.
It was that aluminum cant penetrate steel

Really
Then how did a warheadless tomahawk penetrated both sides of a shipping container.

See Tomahawk missile strike a ship
m.youtube.com...

Or a 35,00Olbs B-25 flying slow penetrated the heavy masonry walls of the Empire State Building.

1945 Empire State Building B-25 crash
en.m.wikipedia.org...

At 9:40 a.m., the aircraft crashed into the north side of the Empire State Building, between the 78th and 80th floors, carving an 18-by-20-foot (5.5 m × 6.1 m) hole in the building[7] where the offices of the National Catholic Welfare Council were located. One engine shot through the South side opposite the impact and flew as far as the next block, dropping 900 feet (270 m) and landing on the roof of a nearby building and starting a fire that destroyed a penthouse art studio. The other engine and part of the landing gear plummeted down an elevator shaft. The resulting fire was extinguished in 40 minutes. It is still the only significant fire at such a height to be brought under control.[7]

You are trying to compare a Kawasaki Ki-61 with a weight of 7,000 LBS to a 767 that weighs over 200,000 lbs? A jet who’s wings were designed to hold over 40,000 lbs in fuel? The wing tip tank along holds over 2,000 pounds of fuel. A single wing of a 767 could support the weight of 5 ki-61’s. It’s not about density, it’s about energy. Again, 767 wing tip tank holds over 2,000 lbs. are you saying a 2,000 pound slug traveling over 400 mph could not take out a steel column?

Did the B-25 cause the Empire State Building to Collapse.. no.

Did it bounce off? No. But according to you it should have

Now feel free to ignore that and come up with some other excuse why you're not wrong




No such thing as an honest Truther

Wrong.

You're quite happy that a slow B-29 can penetrate a building but a 767 going flat out should bounce off? Is that what you're saying?

a reply to: TopSecretMan

Trying to change topics? Typical conspiracist tactic....

Again
So, how did the 200,000 pound plus 767s that might have as much as 40,000 pounds of fuel in each wing flying over 400mph not have the energy to take out hollow vertical columns with steel plate thickness that might have been down to 1/4” thick. The steel plates that the columns were made from thinned with the high of the towers.

originally posted by: mrthumpy

originally posted by: TopSecretMan

originally posted by: mrthumpy

originally posted by: TopSecretMan

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: TopSecretMan

The point I was trying to make wasn't the type of plane it was.
It was that aluminum cant penetrate steel

Really
Then how did a warheadless tomahawk penetrated both sides of a shipping container.

See Tomahawk missile strike a ship
m.youtube.com...

Or a 35,00Olbs B-25 flying slow penetrated the heavy masonry walls of the Empire State Building.

1945 Empire State Building B-25 crash
en.m.wikipedia.org...

At 9:40 a.m., the aircraft crashed into the north side of the Empire State Building, between the 78th and 80th floors, carving an 18-by-20-foot (5.5 m × 6.1 m) hole in the building[7] where the offices of the National Catholic Welfare Council were located. One engine shot through the South side opposite the impact and flew as far as the next block, dropping 900 feet (270 m) and landing on the roof of a nearby building and starting a fire that destroyed a penthouse art studio. The other engine and part of the landing gear plummeted down an elevator shaft. The resulting fire was extinguished in 40 minutes. It is still the only significant fire at such a height to be brought under control.[7]

You are trying to compare a Kawasaki Ki-61 with a weight of 7,000 LBS to a 767 that weighs over 200,000 lbs? A jet who’s wings were designed to hold over 40,000 lbs in fuel? The wing tip tank along holds over 2,000 pounds of fuel. A single wing of a 767 could support the weight of 5 ki-61’s. It’s not about density, it’s about energy. Again, 767 wing tip tank holds over 2,000 lbs. are you saying a 2,000 pound slug traveling over 400 mph could not take out a steel column?

Did the B-25 cause the Empire State Building to Collapse.. no.

Did it bounce off? No. But according to you it should have

Now feel free to ignore that and come up with some other excuse why you're not wrong




No such thing as an honest Truther

Wrong.

You're quite happy that a slow B-29 can penetrate a building but a 767 going flat out should bounce off? Is that what you're saying?

Look at the picture of the B-25 when it hit the empire state building.

Yes it should bounce like a basketball

originally posted by: TopSecretMan

originally posted by: mrthumpy

originally posted by: TopSecretMan

originally posted by: mrthumpy

originally posted by: TopSecretMan

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: TopSecretMan

The point I was trying to make wasn't the type of plane it was.
It was that aluminum cant penetrate steel

Really
Then how did a warheadless tomahawk penetrated both sides of a shipping container.

See Tomahawk missile strike a ship
m.youtube.com...

Or a 35,00Olbs B-25 flying slow penetrated the heavy masonry walls of the Empire State Building.

1945 Empire State Building B-25 crash
en.m.wikipedia.org...

At 9:40 a.m., the aircraft crashed into the north side of the Empire State Building, between the 78th and 80th floors, carving an 18-by-20-foot (5.5 m × 6.1 m) hole in the building[7] where the offices of the National Catholic Welfare Council were located. One engine shot through the South side opposite the impact and flew as far as the next block, dropping 900 feet (270 m) and landing on the roof of a nearby building and starting a fire that destroyed a penthouse art studio. The other engine and part of the landing gear plummeted down an elevator shaft. The resulting fire was extinguished in 40 minutes. It is still the only significant fire at such a height to be brought under control.[7]

You are trying to compare a Kawasaki Ki-61 with a weight of 7,000 LBS to a 767 that weighs over 200,000 lbs? A jet who’s wings were designed to hold over 40,000 lbs in fuel? The wing tip tank along holds over 2,000 pounds of fuel. A single wing of a 767 could support the weight of 5 ki-61’s. It’s not about density, it’s about energy. Again, 767 wing tip tank holds over 2,000 lbs. are you saying a 2,000 pound slug traveling over 400 mph could not take out a steel column?

Did the B-25 cause the Empire State Building to Collapse.. no.

Did it bounce off? No. But according to you it should have

Now feel free to ignore that and come up with some other excuse why you're not wrong




No such thing as an honest Truther

Wrong.

You're quite happy that a slow B-29 can penetrate a building but a 767 going flat out should bounce off? Is that what you're saying?

Look at the picture of the B-25 when it hit the empire state building.

Yes it should bounce like a basketball

I see. so now you're claiming that the B-29 didn't penetrate the Empire State

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: TopSecretMan

Trying to change topics? Typical conspiracist tactic....

Again
So, how did the 200,000 pound plus 767s that might have as much as 40,000 pounds of fuel in each wing flying over 400mph not have the energy to take out hollow vertical columns with steel plate thickness that might have been down to 1/4” thick. The steel plates that the columns were made from thinned with the high of the towers.

www.google.com...

Maybe it wasn't a plane

a reply to: TopSecretMan

The aluminum didn’t have to burn through the metal either. I sure cannot press my foot through a piece of wood like a nail. But I sure can break one in half with my foot if the middle is long enough.

originally posted by: mrthumpy

originally posted by: TopSecretMan

originally posted by: mrthumpy

originally posted by: TopSecretMan

originally posted by: mrthumpy

originally posted by: TopSecretMan

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: TopSecretMan

The point I was trying to make wasn't the type of plane it was.
It was that aluminum cant penetrate steel

Really
Then how did a warheadless tomahawk penetrated both sides of a shipping container.

See Tomahawk missile strike a ship
m.youtube.com...

Or a 35,00Olbs B-25 flying slow penetrated the heavy masonry walls of the Empire State Building.

1945 Empire State Building B-25 crash
en.m.wikipedia.org...

At 9:40 a.m., the aircraft crashed into the north side of the Empire State Building, between the 78th and 80th floors, carving an 18-by-20-foot (5.5 m × 6.1 m) hole in the building[7] where the offices of the National Catholic Welfare Council were located. One engine shot through the South side opposite the impact and flew as far as the next block, dropping 900 feet (270 m) and landing on the roof of a nearby building and starting a fire that destroyed a penthouse art studio. The other engine and part of the landing gear plummeted down an elevator shaft. The resulting fire was extinguished in 40 minutes. It is still the only significant fire at such a height to be brought under control.[7]

You are trying to compare a Kawasaki Ki-61 with a weight of 7,000 LBS to a 767 that weighs over 200,000 lbs? A jet who’s wings were designed to hold over 40,000 lbs in fuel? The wing tip tank along holds over 2,000 pounds of fuel. A single wing of a 767 could support the weight of 5 ki-61’s. It’s not about density, it’s about energy. Again, 767 wing tip tank holds over 2,000 lbs. are you saying a 2,000 pound slug traveling over 400 mph could not take out a steel column?

Did the B-25 cause the Empire State Building to Collapse.. no.

Did it bounce off? No. But according to you it should have

Now feel free to ignore that and come up with some other excuse why you're not wrong




No such thing as an honest Truther

Wrong.

You're quite happy that a slow B-29 can penetrate a building but a 767 going flat out should bounce off? Is that what you're saying?

Look at the picture of the B-25 when it hit the empire state building.

Yes it should bounce like a basketball

I see. so now you're claiming that the B-29 didn't penetrate the Empire State

It did not penetrate steel

originally posted by: TopSecretMan

originally posted by: mrthumpy

originally posted by: TopSecretMan

originally posted by: mrthumpy

originally posted by: TopSecretMan

originally posted by: mrthumpy

originally posted by: TopSecretMan

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: TopSecretMan

The point I was trying to make wasn't the type of plane it was.
It was that aluminum cant penetrate steel

Really
Then how did a warheadless tomahawk penetrated both sides of a shipping container.

See Tomahawk missile strike a ship
m.youtube.com...

Or a 35,00Olbs B-25 flying slow penetrated the heavy masonry walls of the Empire State Building.

1945 Empire State Building B-25 crash
en.m.wikipedia.org...

At 9:40 a.m., the aircraft crashed into the north side of the Empire State Building, between the 78th and 80th floors, carving an 18-by-20-foot (5.5 m × 6.1 m) hole in the building[7] where the offices of the National Catholic Welfare Council were located. One engine shot through the South side opposite the impact and flew as far as the next block, dropping 900 feet (270 m) and landing on the roof of a nearby building and starting a fire that destroyed a penthouse art studio. The other engine and part of the landing gear plummeted down an elevator shaft. The resulting fire was extinguished in 40 minutes. It is still the only significant fire at such a height to be brought under control.[7]

You are trying to compare a Kawasaki Ki-61 with a weight of 7,000 LBS to a 767 that weighs over 200,000 lbs? A jet who’s wings were designed to hold over 40,000 lbs in fuel? The wing tip tank along holds over 2,000 pounds of fuel. A single wing of a 767 could support the weight of 5 ki-61’s. It’s not about density, it’s about energy. Again, 767 wing tip tank holds over 2,000 lbs. are you saying a 2,000 pound slug traveling over 400 mph could not take out a steel column?

Did the B-25 cause the Empire State Building to Collapse.. no.

Did it bounce off? No. But according to you it should have

Now feel free to ignore that and come up with some other excuse why you're not wrong




No such thing as an honest Truther

Wrong.

You're quite happy that a slow B-29 can penetrate a building but a 767 going flat out should bounce off? Is that what you're saying?

Look at the picture of the B-25 when it hit the empire state building.

Yes it should bounce like a basketball

I see. so now you're claiming that the B-29 didn't penetrate the Empire State

It did not penetrate steel

Concrete is fine for a B-29 though


No such thing as an honest Truther

a reply to: TopSecretMan

Never said that... but wind doesn't destroy skyscrapers.

Who ever said they did.

can you answer the simple question about the flawed logic you are displaying?

originally posted by: InhaleExhale
a reply to: TopSecretMan

Never said that... but wind doesn't destroy skyscrapers.

Who ever said they did.

can you answer the simple question about the flawed logic you are displaying?

It was a response to neutron question