I can't imagine not having a national health service funded by taxes.

a reply to: JBurns

I have no issue with the U. S being a powerful nation and holding other would be predator countries at bay it would be good to see a balance between the need to remain top dog and look after citizens as well, nice to see we agree in some areas.

originally posted by: Blaine91555
a reply to: burdman30ott6
You know I feel the pain. $1,600 a month for my household and a now $17,000 deductible.

Sorry...but that's crazy talk for the rest of the civilised world. My condolences for that state of affairs.

a reply to: JohnnyCanuck

I can't speak for Blaine, but it was massively less costly and the services more beneficial for me before Obama and his half asked attempt at socialized medicine entered the picture. That's an important factor here... we were sold an idea that we were going to be so thankful to have a system similar to Canada and Europe universal healthcare, not identical, but a huge step in that direction. Instead it was an excuse to bend us over a barrel and extort huge sums of money from all of us previously happy with the coverage we were getting. It wasn't perfect before, but nothing ever is and at least it was affordable to the majority... unlike this horsecrap socialist inspired hell we now have.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

So it surely calls into question the ones you support.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Mmmm... perhaps it does, perhaps it does not... ponderous, isn't it?

I could run for office in 2 years and be elected by Democrats or Republicans, it's all in the message and delivery... or I can be myself and get elected by half of both all while you doomsay, rending your clothes and pouring dirt on your head over what you perceive is happening. That ought to make you lose some sleep tonight.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

Can you imagine actually recieving the majority of the paycheck you worked for rather than being forced to pay the majority of it to the government which did nothing but sit on it's ass with it's hand jammed in your pocket?

what do you mean the "majority" of it going to pay for anything? In canada at least you keep the majority (you get to keep beetween 50- 75%... 50% tax is applied to anyone with a high income value, while basic tax is 20 or 25%) of your money and still get universal healthcare. Please explain how this is a bad thing. As any American who has ever had to spend more than 10 minutes visiting the doctor can attest, having a bill for literally thousands (if not hundreds of thousands) of dollars will bankrupt almost anyone. I would think that would be far scarier option for most people. Plus it's not like you even notice it "missing" since its automatic, think of it as a charitable donation, one which when you need it comes back to you then fold.

a reply to: looneylupinsrevenge

"It's not like you even notice it's missing"

We are talking about a paycheck here and you're telling me you wouldn't notice that your pay for a job you agreed to do for X dollars per hour is actually yielding you 40 or 50% less than X dollars? Seriously? My company would love to hire you. Don't worry about your paycheck, just believe you're getting what you earned and all will be great.

Also, as I said later in the thread, in the US, some states see earners paying well over 50% of their income in local, state, and federal taxes WITHOUT any universal healthcare tax, you expect these folk to rejoice when an additional 15, 20, 25% is taken from them so Joe Six-pack down the street can go have a million dollar heart surgery? Good intentions and charitable giving don't pay my bills, brother. Working my ass off, budgeting, and personal responsibility do, however.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: looneylupinsrevenge

"It's not like you even notice it's missing"

We are talking about a paycheck here and you're telling me you wouldn't notice that your pay for a job you agreed to do for X dollars per hour is actually yielding you 40 or 50% less than X dollars? Seriously? My company would love to hire you. Don't worry about your paycheck, just believe you're getting what you earned and all will be great.

Also, as I said later in the thread, in the US, some states see earners paying well over 50% of their income in local, state, and federal taxes WITHOUT any universal healthcare tax, you expect these folk to rejoice when an additional 15, 20, 25% is taken from them so Joe Six-pack down the street can go have a million dollar heart surgery? Good intentions and charitable giving don't pay my bills, brother. Working my ass off, budgeting, and personal responsibility do, however.

Again you're using flawed math, like I explained it's not a flat rate of 40-50% universally it's a sliding scale based on net income ranging from 20 or 25% for low income earners (maybe even less if you fall under the poverty line) upto and including 50% tax for those earning over I think $100,000 or $200,000. And no you honestly don't notice it, or maybe it's better to say we accept it as a necessity because we see how easy it is for a family to go into bankruptcy when visiting a doctor south of the border. I should also mention that's total income tax, not just healthcare tax. So well within the acceptable range, more so compared to your anecdote above.

Speaking of your anecdotal story of people in some state or another paying 40 or 50%, honestly it isn't worth the paper its printed on. However, if what you say is true, then they are idiots for allowing their state to do such to them and should have either voted to fix that problem when it first started or created a better way to get state revenue rather than taxation.

I hope for you sake and that of your family that you never have anything serious go wrong or you will be praying for universal healthcare like we have up here. You know what, I might be wrong, but you sound like one of those people who would try and jump the border to get free healthcare when the snip hits the fan.

Infact this reminds me of the story of the grasshopper and the ant. The ant works all season long storing food for the winter while the grasshopper sits back and enjoys the day. But when winter comes the grasshopper starves, and the ant has enough to keep it going till spring. In canada we would rather prepare for the future and protect our investment (our health), rather than lounging in the sun day after day, only to starve come winter time (when serious illness strikes). Argue all you want, but it sadly won't mean anything when the doctors bill comes due for you (not me, for me its "free").

a reply to: burdman30ott6

The saddest part is that you seem to be proud of your murderous mindset. I really hope you're being facetious right now, I'd hate to think such a terrible outlook could be held by someone. If not I can only hope for your recovery because, no joke, you seriously sound Hitler-esque with your genocidal statement earlier.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

Do you feel the same way about education, school, police and fire services? Should they be all pay to play too?
Some taxes are indeed plunder but some are the necessities to functioning a society.

originally posted by: CornishHen
...and now I know 'general welfare' of citizens is actually in the US constitution I'm amazed anyone has some constitutional argument against it.

Something tells me taxation without representation was not the idea behind that.

Would you mind telling me why it is you think doctors and other medical people should not be forced to work for free for the general welfare and greater good? Why are they doctors if they don't have any interest in prioritizing "the general welfare" over personal profit?

A socialist who believes that overpaid professional racketeers should drive nice cars and live comfortable middle class lives while their poorest patients fight for life?

OP. I'm happy for your "healthiness", due to other people's, willingness to work and pay "taxes".
How much work did you contribute to the "social",... "healthiness" of others?

I'm just asking.

Because some of us educated people are really getting sick of the "socialist" sob stories, and we're really not buying it anymore....

Some of us educated "conservatives" can really "imagine", giving an honorable funeral, to the weakest of the tribe/herd/nation. ... But in no way, would we ever mock the "value" of their "weaknesses", to the tribe or nation/herd...

What people dont understand about American healthcare, is there are too many that will never contribute a penny to healthcare.

It's their American right to not give one care about their health or have to pay one penny towards health care.

And the population who dont care one second about their health or will ever give one penny towards health care Is a large group.

And like many other taxed based services in the u.s.
There are more people who use them , and less who pay to keep the services available.

This caused a steady increase in taxes.

All Obama care did was ask the people who do pay, to pay more to help take care of people , again who never cared one second about their health.

And once you offer these people a free service, it's hard to take it away without getting the free riders upset.

a reply to: looneylupinsrevenge

You ever been to a VA hospital? That's America's version of universal healthcare and I'll tell you what... most of the time I go somewhere and pay out of pocket instead of foing to the VA even though it's basically free. If you've never been, just take a visit..watch a video... you'll see why many Americans distrust a universal system..

A2D

a reply to: burdman30ott6

I love how the libs use that word, them "catch phrases",... like "universal".
Kind of like the/that word "comprehensive". Way over used, all the time.

Like it'll all be wraped up, "if you give US the power to do it"....

"Give us your liberty, and we'll GIVE you freedom". ...Kinda "educated" sounding....

The meaning of "words", actually mean something. It would do good, the educated traitors of our country to study our language... It may save their neck someday. Figuratively speaking.

a reply to: Bloodworth

Like not caring about health is totally an American idea?

Why should healthy people pay for sick people? I thought the "planet" was over populated? I'm confused. Most the "powerplayers" advocating "universal healthcare". Are the same folks saying we need to unload a couple billion to save the "planet".... Wish they'd get their priorities straight!

a reply to: looneylupinsrevenge

The grasshopper and the ant? Used as a point to justify a socialist system whereby needing everyone else to pay your way is a virtue over each taking personal responsibility for themselves? I'm not sure you thought that analogy out beforehand, friend.

And don't worry about me hopping any borders into Canada.

a reply to: Slickinfinity

Property taxes support police. That's a bit different from income taxes. I disagree vehemently with this country's education and school system, thus my children are home schooled.

a reply to: murphy22
I answered your question in the OP, I've paid many tens of thousands of pounds in taxes all my working life, I'm in credit with the UK government.
...and thanks to NHS treatment I can continue to work and pay taxes...win win.

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy

...and thanks to NHS treatment I can continue to work and pay taxes...win win.

So you're basically a slave, right? Your entire existence is dedicated to lubricating the gears of a machine that is perfectly designed to simply chew you up and spit out your bones when it's done with you.

I like to use the term "Tax cow" because it's just so apt.

I thought socialists were against slavery.