I can't imagine not having a national health service funded by taxes.

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy
glad I don't live in such a unique uncaring nation.

Yes, I'm glad of this as well.

originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy
...and now I know 'general welfare' of citizens is actually in the US constitution I'm amazed anyone has some constitutional argument against it.

Take heart...if the issue were important to Americans, they would make it happen. The status quo indicates that universal health care is no biggie. Their call.

That is a problem - because it is the biggest issue for the US economically BY FAR.

It is bankrupting our country. The portion of our budget going to medical costs is the fastest increasing, and our population is only getting older.

If we could drop our medical costs in half - do you have any idea what kind of rocket fuel that would be for the economy?

It would be ENORMOUS.

The fact is not the biggest issue is a very clear demonstration of what an incredible disgrace our media is.

a reply to: burdman30ott6
You glad I don't live there?
I'm going one day and overstaying my tourist visa just to be an illegal because I can lol

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

It could be, yes... but again, if you were a McDonald's addicted American who refuses to exercise and eat right, I don't want to pay for your medical expenses.

A2D

a reply to: burdman30ott6

Just another excuse those in power would use to wage even more war, if that is even possible. Good idea, that wouldn't backfire at all.

a reply to: Agree2Disagree
We have fat lazy people, drug addicts, alcoholics etc, I don't mind my taxes trying to help them towards a path of good health.
Different cultures I guess.

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy
a reply to: burdman30ott6
You glad I don't live there?
I'm going one day and overstaying my tourist visa just to be an illegal because I can lol

Visit, spend your money, leave... it's all good. With your meniere's disease you can't go too long without treatments and since you likely can't afford a doctor in the US, I somehow don't worry that you'll overstay that visa by much... if at all, before needing to head back to your free health care utopia/ tax slavery hell of the UK.

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

And just for the sake of argument, what if the best thing for these unhealthy people would be personal responsibility? What if people would be healthier when they are fully responsible for their own health care, out of their own pocket without insurance?

Maybe fully insuring them or providing 'free' health care is causing more issues in the long run, creating unhealthy citizens because there will always be someone else to pick up the tab?

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

If we win and get a payday out of it, I'm not sure why I should care, honestly.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy
a reply to: burdman30ott6
You glad I don't live there?
I'm going one day and overstaying my tourist visa just to be an illegal because I can lol

Visit, spend your money, leave... it's all good. With your meniere's disease you can't go too long without treatments and since you likely can't afford a doctor in the US, I somehow don't worry that you'll overstay that visa by much... if at all, before needing to head back to your free health care utopia/ tax slavery hell of the UK.

LMAO, my drug is accepted at the port of entry with a letter from the NHS, unlucky, I can take the piss and stay for months so long as I keep my supply to last. I will take the piss, overstay my visa and make a thread about it to piss you off haha.
EDIT
Why do you think I couldn't afford a doctor prescription in the US? I do alright, I work 2 or 3 days a week usually at most because I earn decent money.

a reply to: ClovenSky

what if the best thing for these unhealthy people would be personal responsibility? What if people would be healthier when they are fully responsible for their own health care, out of their own pocket without insurance? 

You'd have a lot more funeral debt.

Maybe fully insuring them or providing 'free' health care is causing more issues in the long run, creating unhealthy citizens because there will always be someone else to pick up the tab?

The top 4 countries as far as life expectancy goes all have universal healthcare systems, and that's only from less than 5 minutes of searching. It could be most of the top 10 if not all.

You are arguing from ignorance.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

You would sing a different tune if it were your country being invaded. But I understand, unless you've actually been the victim of war you don't really get it. Empathy is a foreign concept to some.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

They are also relatively homogeneous societies. The US melting pot makes something like that impossible. Too many different priorities and motivations conflicting to permit something like Japan or the Nordic countries with their 99% same cultural backgrounds populations have going. The difference in age expectation between the USA and a country like the UK with only slightly less diversity in population and universal health care is less than 2 years.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: burdman30ott6

You would sing a different tune if it were your country being invaded.

Well, obviously I would. What the hell does that have to do with anything? Seriously, that's about the most ridiculous qualifier for a position I've seen from you. Any issue will be viewed differently depending on which side your view stems from.

a reply to: burdman30ott6
Rubbish, the UK is just as multicultural, maybe slightly less, and that has no effect on a universal healthcare system for all, every developed nation in the world provides it except the US, how do you defend that?!

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: burdman30ott6

You would sing a different tune if it were your country being invaded.

Well, obviously I would. What the hell does that have to do with anything? Seriously, that's about the most ridiculous qualifier for a position I've seen from you. Any issue will be viewed differently depending on which side your view stems from.

My point is you have no idea what loss is when it comes to being invaded by another country. You don't care because you aren't the one losing family and your home. You show little empathy when it comes to war, you treat it like it's a game where prizes are won. Ignorant.

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

The UK has 1/6th the population constrained to an area 1/40th the size of the US. You're multicultural with a much higher degree of priority uniformity than the US is. We tend to be very tribal here, not to mention there's very little integration of incoming immigrants.

Every other nation IS NOT the USA. That's how I "defend" it. Government here is not mother, father, sister, brother, provider, nurturer, concubine, wife... it is, rather, a necessary inconvenience which our chartering documents focused more on restricting and limiting than on empowering. Your mileage may vary.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Lack of empathy is not ignorant, I know exactly who and what I am... don't confuse two unrelated topics. I'm not up here saying "US was chosen to rule the world, Deus Vult!" I'm saying if you've built great power, exert it. If a rival exceeds your strength and can stop you or even overtake you, then you obviously weren't powerful enough, but if you have the means to conquer the world, do so. It was essentially the way of the world prior to the past 150 years or so.

a reply to: burdman30ott6
That sounds lovely, now behave like a good colonial subject lol

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
Sorry, but the "I'm happy to pay higher taxes if..." argument is a personal position which has zero bearing or impact to the underlying concept of taxation being little more than adminsitratively legalized theft. A fundamental human right is the right of choice over one's own earnings. I exchange my valuable time for a set rate of compensation, there's no justification for the government to lay claim to any of my time unless I am incarcerated, so why in the blue hell do they have a right to lay claim to a portion of what I exchange my time for? If that means some folks have to pay more for medical procedures they have elected to undergo, so be it... your earnings, your wealth, your choices, leave me TF out of it.

Because you live in society and get all the benefits of doing so, including the very concept that you get to exchange your labour for compensation

Every single person is better off for paying taxes.