Deadly Force Authorized-On US Southern Border for Migrants Behaving badly Straight from the Top!

originally posted by: blackrabbit1
I do believe the trump supporters forsee a hoard charging across the border?

If they present at a crossing in an orderly fashion they will be let in and processed in accordance with the law. Where does your orange god and his bull**** bravado stand then?

Did you see what they did to the Mexican Southern border?

These are a bunch of lawless criminals. Just because they act all nice once they get to our border, they are still a bunch of filthy animals on the inside.

But yes I am sure you are right. They will be let in and processed.

I am sorry you think it is "bravado" to state that, if they attack us like they did the Mexican servicemen and police, we will not put up with that BS".

It is "bravado" to state "if we are attacked we will not stand by idly"?

Damn, you must be a total freakin coward who would just stand by idly while your nation is overrun by foreigners if you call THAT "bravado"... LoL! Are you being serious right now??

Damn, you must be a total freakin coward who would just stand by idly while your nation is overrun by foreigners if you call THAT "bravado"... LoL! Are you being serious right now??

Ironic coming from a nation made up by people who overran the natives!

So much ignorance in this thread... where to start...

• Donald J. Trump is the Commander in Chief of the military of the United States. James Mattis is not Commander-in-Chief of the United States military. Donald Trump gives the top orders.
  
  
• James Mattis is not a calming voice to Donald Trump's vicious rhetoric. As a matter of fact, the opposite might be true. Here's a few quotes:
  • "The first time you blow someone away is not an insignificant event. That said, there are some a**holes in the world that just need to be shot."
    
  • "I come in peace. I didn’t bring artillery. But I’m pleading with you, with tears in my eyes: If you f*** with me, I’ll kill you all."
    
  • "Find the enemy that wants to end this experiment (in American democracy) and kill every one of them until they’re so sick of the killing that they leave us and our freedoms intact."
    
  • "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet."
    
  • "You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn't wear a veil. You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them. Actually it's quite fun to fight them, you know. It's a hell of a hoot. It's fun to shoot some people. I'll be right up there with you. I like brawling."
    
  • "I’m going to plead with you, do not cross us. Because if you do, the survivors will write about what we do here for 10,000 years."
    -James "Mad Dog" Mattis
  
  
• As Commander-in-Chief of the military, Trump does not need anyone's approval to operate the military against military targets, and that includes Congress. Anyone remember his strikes on Syria? That was not approved by Congress, because it didn't need to be. Congress is only required to declare open warfare, not to protect the interests of the United States.
  
  
• There is no "secret handshake" when it comes to issuing orders for the military. Trump can issue an order any way he wishes, be it by private courier, radio communications, phone call, or public statement. All that is required is for Trump's identity to be established as the originator of the order.
  
  
• Every soldier has the right to refuse an illegal order; but every soldier who refuses an illegal order takes an extreme risk that they will then be court-martialed if the order is found to be legal and that they will be responsible for the deaths of those they serve with. It is not a common practice by any stretch of the imagination and carries the most severe repercussions imaginable. It is certainly not something one should or could count on.
  
  
• Posse Comitatis does not prevent American troops from being on US soil, or from being armed on US soil, or from engaging an enemy on US soil. Posse Comitatis prevents the military from being used to enforce domestic policy. It was established to prevent US troops from being used to enforce voting regulations during Reconstruction Redestruction.
  
  
• Immigration is not domestic policy; it is international by definition. Immigrants do not enter the United States from the United States.
  
  
• The caravan falls under the exceptions to the Posse Comitatis Act in any case.
  
  
• If anyone on US soil makes any attack on anyone on Mexican soil, it is indeed a potential act of war. If anyone on Mexican soil makes any attack on anyone on US soil, it is also a potential act of war. It boils down to who starts it. Also, it is completely irrelevant whether the attack is made using a bazooka, a gun, a throwing knife, a rock, a stick, or a damn Twizzler... an attack is an attack, and is an act of war if and only if the country being attacked wishes to classify it as such.
  
  
• Mexico is not going to declare war on us because we obliterated an invading hoard of people that had already invaded Mexico. In the first place, Mexico cares about its citizens. In the second place, the Mexican military wants no part of our military. War means you kill the enemy... all the enemy... any way you can. Our military is very good at waging war.
  
  
• Congress can indeed over-ride the President and keep the military from being used, but that requires them to pass a law (which is what they are supposed to be doing). Congress could not figure out how to pass DACA into law, even after agreeing on it and Obama writing the thing for them, and after being given six months to do so.
  
  
• There is no such thing as an "unarmed military." It does not exist. The only time soldiers are unarmed is under special orders in areas considered safe. Even then, there are weapons in the hands of the Military Police.
  
  
• The military is not trained to use rubber bullets or other "non-lethal" attack methods. The military is trained to kill, period, in as wholesale a fashion as is necessary to accomplish their defined goals. That is their purpose: to kill people and break things.
  
  
• Unless specifically ordered otherwise, any military personnel on active duty has standing permission to return fire from an attack. We tried tying their hands with "do not return fire" orders in Korea and Vietnam... it did not work very well.
  
  
• Using women and children as human shields is an ineffective way to prevent being engaged by the military; we learned why that must be in Vietnam and Korea also.
  
  
• A "support position" means the goal of the military is non-combative. It does not mean they are unarmed, nor does it mean they will not return fire if attacked. It also does mean that if any law enforcement they are supporting is attacked, they can and will take an offensive position and return fire, barring special orders not to do so.
  
  
• The caravan does not contain any asylum seekers. Every member has traveled through at least one additional country to get to the US, and every one has been granted asylum in that country and has refused it. They are by definition not eligible for asylum in the US.
  
  
• Every interview conducted with these people has shown them stating openly that they are seeking better employment and better living conditions. Those are not reasons for asylum. Asylum is defined as sanctuary from a home country which either persecutes or allows persecution based on certain well-defined characteristics such as race, religion, etc.
  
  
• A person in Mexico does not possess Constitutional protections in the US, unless they are already a citizen of the US. A person who illegally crosses the border does not suddenly receive the benefits of citizenship with that one step. US soil is not first base, and we're not playing baseball.

If people do not want to see these invaders violently repelled from our border under our present policy, there's a simple way to do it: get them to turn around. Trying to redefine laws on the Internet will not work. Neither will trying to define someone as a "moron" who has already accomplished more in one life that most of us could in three lives.

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

I'd have to say that's a very inclusive list. Very rare when i can't think of anything to add.

What i find funny is even as a US citizen I'm not allowed to cross the border anywhere i want. All crossings not at designated areas makes you subject to arrest.

As far as military deployment if they are told bot to allow people to cross people will not cross. The level of force used will be determined by the people crossing the border.

But i honestly don't think the caravan will ever make it. Many have given up all ready so its just a matter of time before they quit.

The caravan

Propaganda gold now being mined from rocks.

originally posted by: dragonridr
a reply to: TheRedneck

I'd have to say that's a very inclusive list. Very rare when i can't think of anything to add.

What i find funny is even as a US citizen I'm not allowed to cross the border anywhere i want. All crossings not at designated areas makes you subject to arrest.

As far as military deployment if they are told bot to allow people to cross people will not cross. The level of force used will be determined by the people crossing the border.

But i honestly don't think the caravan will ever make it. Many have given up all ready so its just a matter of time before they quit.

Us law does not permit the military from physically stopping the caravan. They would have to be in support of a boarder patrol under attack. I dont even think they are allowed to stop damage of barricades according to the head of the boarder patrol who is disgusted by this charade all around.

His opinion is catch and release just creates the entire closed loop system. The opinion of boarder patrol seems to be they should be held, go to trial, and if they dont meet requirements they can't apply again. His point of view is to close the loop once processed you can not apply again without having refugee status from another nation and have legitamate reason to require asylum in the US.

originally posted by: roadgravel
The caravan

Propaganda gold now being mined from rocks.

If they are painted with their asylum stories we have a real problem.


Is it art, international crisis, or simply just a propaganda tool for anyone who wants to make up a narrative?

Like open sourced propaganda.

a reply to: TheJesuit

If examples need to be made for these invaders then that's fine. I'm sick of people invading this country illegally.

a reply to: Lumenari

I wonder how that would work... Hondurans and other South Americans invading Mexico and being shot by Americans on Mexican soil.

originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: Lumenari

Um.. the military's Commander in Chief just told them to...

Yeah the same guy who thinks he can change the constitution with a pen.
They cant fire on refugees. They know that even if their moron in chief doesnt.

Remember when Trump said: "I've got a pen and I've got a phone - and I can use that pen to sign executive orders and take executive actions and administrative actions that move the ball forward."

Me either.

First they have to get close enough to throw a rock .... that maybe a problem

a reply to: TheRedneck

Mattis 2024

a reply to: MetalThunder

I'm surprised Musk hasn't come up with a non-lethal system for the hordes of con artists

They are a grave national security risk - everyone crossing the border illegally are foreign nationals and therefore constitutes a foreign invasion.

Glad to see military/paramilitary militias alike taking control of the border and denying entry to illegals.

And whatever force is necessary to defend our country, it is what it is. Invaders have been warned and told point blank not to come, that they won't be admitted under any circumstance and that turning around is the only solution.

Asylum only counts when they don't bypass several other countries. This isn't a vacation resort, they don't get to pick and choose. You don't get to cross through Mexico just to claim asylum in the US. It is either the first country or stay the hell home where you belong in your own country

I've made sure to donate hefty sums to our brave Constitutional paramilitaries

Thank you to all our brave citizen soldiers who defend our nation without any respect, funding or glory. You make me proud to be American.

*Hopefully they raised enough funds to buy significant armor and counter sniper capabilities. I wouldn't put it past some of the provocateurs to employ sniper tactics and other forms of harassment especially against paramilitaries. Think of the propaganda win that routing even the smallest group of armed defenders would bring for them. I just hope these folks are going well prepared

a reply to: JBurns

They are a grave national security risk - everyone crossing the border illegally are foreign nationals and therefore constitutes a foreign invasion.

Glad to see military/paramilitary militias alike taking control of the border and denying entry to illegals.

They haven't done anything yet so in control isn't in effect.

a reply to: roadgravel

Ah, I am sure they are waiting until they get a bit closer

It is sad it has come to this, but they just won't respect our border and our laws and now we are in the position of being forced to use extreme measures to defend our sovereignty. Whatever happens will be on the hands of the caravan and those funding/supporting it, and I hope any applicable post-action criminal charges reflect that reality.

originally posted by: Lab4Us
No sympathy for anarchists who refuse to follow the rule of law. That said, I can assure you from experience that the US military will not shoot people throwing rocks (unless they are employing other types of deadly force). There are many rules about employing deadly force in the military, the consequences to violating them quite severe.

Guess we can quit the deadly force vs rocks hyperbole now...can’t we?

Is there a rule in the book where it says you cannot just shoot the hand that threw the rock thereby not making it a deadly engagement?

Or put up signs..."Do Not Throw Rocks" in language that the caravan can read and understand.

originally posted by: Skywatcher2011

originally posted by: Lab4Us
No sympathy for anarchists who refuse to follow the rule of law. That said, I can assure you from experience that the US military will not shoot people throwing rocks (unless they are employing other types of deadly force). There are many rules about employing deadly force in the military, the consequences to violating them quite severe.

Guess we can quit the deadly force vs rocks hyperbole now...can’t we?

Is there a rule in the book where it says you cannot just shoot the hand that threw the rock thereby not making it a deadly engagement?

Or put up signs..."Do Not Throw Rocks" in language that the caravan can read and understand.

You know good and well how small a hand is right? no take into account how small it is at distance. We arent Robocops and cant shoot the wings off a fly. We deal in reality and if you are stupid enough to throw a rock,you deserve the stupid prize when they shoot you dead.

originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: Lumenari

They cant shoot even if they get hit with a rock. They cannot do what trump wants you to believe they can.
And no they are not defending our country because we are not at war with these people. They are not agressors invading even though the idiot keeps saying that. Hes lying. And some people are lapping it up like a cat and a bowl of cream.

Yeah dude, they're aggressors. They're invaders. We don't need anyone telling us that in order to believe it. Go grab a thousand people and bust through Canada's gates waving the US Flag and see what happens. Go bust through Mexico's gates waving your flag and see what happens. Go bust through Germany's gate waving your flag and see what happens. Go bust through China's gate waving your flag and see what happens. Go bust through Russia's gate waving your flag and see what happens.