NEWS: Reclaiming America for Christ

Cause these religion wars piss me off. I just want to get sucked up in a UFO and leave Earth forever.

Originally posted by MaskedAvatar
Hmmmm.

What would happen if a branch or spin-off from this evangelical movement arrived, determined to "Reclaim ATS For Christ"?

I suspect they might meet with some resistance. Kinda like the mythical Bush-moles. hehehe


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What would happen if a branch or spin-off from this evangelical movement arrived, determined to "Reclaim ATS For Christ"?

They'd fail, to many ATS members are Atheist, agnostic, wiccan, pagan, et al.

I would fight on the front lines of the ATS cyber-war, though.

Originally posted by soficrow

The thing is - what you seem to think are Christian philosohy and ethics, is fairly universal wisdom.

I didn't say that, soficrow. What I acknowledged was the source of the inspiration of the founders, which was undeniably Judeo-Christian principles. Those who believe as I do, find the same inspiration in many systems of belief and acknowledge a common source for such truths. The problem we are all faced with is sorting out truth from everything else, including sometimes, the facts, which often blind us to the truth.

Originally posted by MaskedAvatar
Hmmmm.

What would happen if a branch or spin-off from this evangelical movement arrived, determined to "Reclaim ATS For Christ"?

I would hazard a guess and say the same thing that eventually happened to those who were apart of "Take back ATS"?



seekerof

First off I think it's great that America is a free enough country that arguments and discussion about this topic can take place; no matter who is wrong or right. If you look at things from just the right perspective, then no one is completely wrong with basis for any opinions stated, and the facts to back it up.

So on a lighter note I think none of the tension of this subject is anger, frustration, or hate. It sounds alot to me like a bunch of valid points with hot air and worries to back them up.

I will say something is less likely a truth for you personally unless you feel it is true beyond what someone before you has said is the truth of a thing.

And for everyone who "feels" America was founded on religion I'd say you're mostly right; it was a freedom of religion. What was to become in modern day "America" was realy founded on a mix of religion and masonic principles. The beginnings of this place now called America were more about commerce and the practice of mental and spiritual higher learning. This was before any time when religion was an organized "institution". In other words no religion on the face of this planet is organized, but will have become such by an organization. It only takes one person to be right about something. But be right for yourself, not someone elses idea of faith in the world. There are plenty of unknowns out there to combine with current knowledge, as well as SELF-ILLUMINATION.

If you believe something is true that someone has said before you, it is not because you believe they were right; it is because you believed what they've said is right. True religion only has one leader, you unto yourself. No group, or person other than yourself has the right to claim they are your spiritual leader, no matter what religion they are.

America is a country founded by a multitude of people over a very, very, long time. The idea of what America stands for is based simply on one word "freedom", with a little order of course. That "god" was placed in historic American documents in the 1950's shows it is more a "growing" thing than a founding. The fact that most of those who came to America around the time it was named were Christians by faith does not make America a Christian country. It means most of those who came here first before, during, and after the stating of Americas independence were worshipers in the Christian faith.

More than just the original documents of America's independence stated America is the new place to come not because it is the Christians place of freedom. It was a place where all could come to be free in general. Even the laws of America aren't based fundamentally from Christianity; they are based like the english language on many cultures laws that have been found to be just.

I keep telling myself not to be so long winded on here, but anothers thought that constricts brings about so many others that will not. I hope patience wasn't drawn thin here. I just hope people will quit whining about others and answer questions about themselves. And by the way, Americas freedoms imply one who does not believe the same thing you do shouldn't leave America; but stay AND FEEL FREE TO BE YOURSELF!!!

Originally posted by Seekerof

I would hazard a guess and say the same thing that eventually happened to those who were apart of "Take back ATS"?

Uh-oh! Did I miss something? I must have slept through the revolution.

[edit on 05/2/23 by GradyPhilpott]

Originally posted by Kwintz
These evangelicals sure do know how to RAISE HELL DON'T THEY!

From experience, our youth shouldn't be educated religiously unless every way of thinking is taught. My God, How long is it going to take die-hard Christians to understand that Christianity IS NOT THE ONLY WAY! On the flipside, how long will it take extremist muslims to understand islam IS NOT THE ONLY WAY! Jesus Christ (pardon the pun haha), we wonder why our children's test scores are dropping and want to find ways to get them back up. Teaching about events that could have never happened and aren't definitely historically acurrate sure is the way to make our kids smarter!

Organized religion. Never ceases to amaze me!

wait, so you are telling me that sense people believe in Christ and christians want it taught in schools that this is the reason our school scores are way down? Do you not see the fault in this logic as there is NO RELIGION TAUGHT IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS! Therefore your arguement states that Religion shouldn't be taught in schools because ever since it has been taken out of public schools our scores have decreased compared to the rest of the world.

Of course religion should be taught in schools, all parts of religions, including why different groups believe these certain things. Most religions gives you STRONGER moral values than those without a religious background. Now im not saying that Aethists are immoral, i'm simply saying that those who are TRULY religious tend to be more caring, atleast that is how it is in the Christian world compared to the Aethist world. Again, not saying that Athiests are immoral, or mean, i'm sure we all have experienced what a true believer is like in real life, and it is hard to get that nice without submitting yourself to a higher powers will.

Now that i have offended people i will go on my way.

Originally posted by Ryanp5555
, i'm simply saying that those who are TRULY religious tend to be more caring, atleast that is how it is in the Christian world compared to the Aethist world. .

You can not honestly believe that!? You mean caring like, hating gays, hating other religions...that kind of caring!?

Ok, how about I form my own organization? I'll call it Stopping Fun-Hating, Homophobic, Cartoon Sponge-Fearing, Intolerant, Bloodthirsty, Bible-Humping, Hypocritical Religious Freaks from Reclaiming America for their Twisted Version of Christ, and Turning America Into a Fundamentalist Version of Saudi Arabia.

Yeah...only thing is I might have to shorten the name a bit.
Seriously though, you start pushing and someone is liable to push back. We're not going to let these people yank us back into the Middle Ages socially.

Oh, and I don't give a DAMN what the founding fathers intended (regarding religion). I'm interested in the situation of the country is now. The founding slave-owners are dead, it's out of their hands. It's in ours.

Did I miss a stop at Epcot?

To the schools should be teaching about religions point. Hey, cool by me. I'm degreed in that. Can I have your kid's brains for an hour a day? "Will teach about religion for food." Please?

There's a difference in teaching about religions and indoctrinating Christianity or morality ya know?

I seriously doubt most Christians would like a truly objective view of biblical authorship, the history of the church or Christianity taught along with other prevalent historical mythologies and "Religions of the World."

And why would you want them to? They don't even teach art, music or driver's eduation in alot of places anymore. Conservatism ya know.

Idea!!! Couldn't you teach about Christianity...in Church? Just a thought.

But don't let me talk anyone out of Religion teachers in school. I've been itching to get my fingers in some 8th graders brains and tell 'em all about Zen Buddhism.

Actually some schools do teach that as part of the world history corriculum.

""and the original intention of the "traditional judeo-christian marriage" was to keep women down and supressed, owned and enslaved....spend some time reading the old testament...."""

Yeah, now it's all about the night life, having sex, get pregant, abortiting the babies. sniffing drug's, being lesbians, and walking down three street half nacked, marring men for cash, then leaving them and taking their money, looking like prositutes.

That's female freedom

The new women is traitor to marriage, she is traitor to mothers, she is traitor to her husband, and is a theif.

Women have turn marriage, into a contract for the right of 50% of man's assets. She uses sex as means for pleasure her self, she has no desire to be a mother and does anything to rid the burden of being a mother.

Why not teach the world's religions to children. The Constitution is not as aversive to religion as our intolerant friends would have us believe. It only guarantees that Congress shall make no law respecting....

Wait a minute. Here it is!

Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the First Amendment to the Constitution of the United States of America:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Is there anything there to prevent prayer or mentioning God in the schools? I didn't think so. It's just our hysterical, intolerant, heathen friends who get all queasy at the mere mention of God, who have gotten it all mixed up.

"The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion." ~ George Washington

How's that? Clear enough?

Grady Philpott is 100% correct the founding fathers were mostly deist's. Ding! Ding! We have a winner!

The way I see the Pilgrims is that they were so incredibly difficult to get along with that the most tolerant country on the planet, Denmark, kicked them out. Nobody could stand them. After having suffered terrible religious persecution they got established here and have been persecuting everyone else for over 200 years.

Later on in colony life if a Quaker wandered into Philadelphia they had hot pokers driven through their tongues for the charge of blasphemy and had there eats cut off for listening to it, hence their little ducth boy hair cuts to hide the holes.

This latest batch of intolerant theocratists I call Dominionist Pentacostal Dispensational Darbyists and its too much to go into here. Suffice it to say that they are not mainstream Christians in any sense.

Mainstream Christianity DOES NOT believe in a literal rapture. Ask one. This faction that believes they are going to be sucked up to a big nudist meeting in the clouds with Jesus is comprised of Pentacostals and Dominionists. They are very vocal but they do not represent the mainline denominations of christianity, at all.

“A man compounded of law and gospel is able to cheat a whole country with his religion and then destroy them under color of law.” -Benjamin Franklin

Originally posted by TheTruth123

Yeah, now it's all about the night life, having sex, get pregant, abortiting the babies. sniffing drug's, being lesbians, and walking down three street half nacked, marring men for cash, then leaving them and taking their money, looking like prositutes.

That's female freedom

The new women is traitor to marriage, she is traitor to mothers, she is traitor to her husband, and is a theif.

Women have turn marriage, into a contract for the right of 50% of man's assets. She uses sex as means for pleasure her self, she has no desire to be a mother and does anything to rid the burden of being a mother.

WOW...bad marriage!? So you clump all women today in the above description? Very sad view there. Have you thought about help? Seriously! Most women I know would not fit such a description...some yes, but not the majority......we could turn all that around about men too...but to claim all men are lying, cheating two timing Neanderthals that think with the what's between their legs would be a lie...some are, but not all .

Originally posted by Alexodin
The way I see the Pilgrims is that they were so incredibly difficult to get along with that the most tolerant country on the planet, Denmark, kicked them out. Nobody could stand them. After having suffered terrible religious persecution they got established here and have been persecuting everyone else for over 200 years.

I hardly think that is a fair assessment of life in America at any stage. There have been cases of persecution for a variety of issues, including religion. What I wish people would do is stop and think of the values we would not have if we did not have Judaism and Christianity at the heart of our culture. There are bad things to be sure, but it is not all bad and the good is what has granted us the ability to build this strong country we have inherited from our forebears.

George Washington was speaking to Muslims when he said America was not founded on a religion of Christianity, but he was practicing diplomacy, not philosophy. If you read further into the works of Washington and others you will find plenty evidence of the influence of the Christian faith upon their lives and their work.

Originally posted by soficrow
namehere - I'm an equal opportunity slammer. Really.

IMO - This world is big enough for everyone. There's no need to fight; no need to make everyone over like you. No need to push anyone around.


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Well, you see, sof, this nation was built by the Christians. I've been over this many times before and I'll not give the class again. Nobody is saying the entire world has to be a believer in God - yet. When everyone does kneel in His prescence, it'll be in His time and by His hand, not by the hand of us Christians.

As far as the nation is concerned, go build your own. We Christians are tired of the crap you non-Christians shove down our throats in our own nation.

Grady, " I hardly think that is a fair assessment of life in America at any stage."

Well it happened. I do not mean to say that it is the only reality of life in America but an aspect of it certainly.

I did not mean to imply that there was no value to the Christian religion and I don’t think I did.

I don’t think it matters who George Washington was speaking to as he had a reputation for honesty. Diplomacy or philosophy the truth is the truth. Yes the founding fathers were deeply influenced by Christianity. That does not make them Christians.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
Is there anything there to prevent prayer or mentioning God in the schools? I didn't think so. It's just our hysterical, intolerant, heathen friends who get all queasy at the mere mention of God, who have gotten it all mixed up.

This debate ensued almost immediately from America's beginnings and was clarifed repeatedly in subsequent documents like the Elementary School Act of 1817.

Is Jefferson a hysterical, intolerant, heathen in his explanation?

"Ministers of the Gospel are excluded [from serving as Visitors of the county Elementary Schools] to avoid jealousy from the other sects, were the public education committed to the ministers of a particular one; and with more reason than in the case of their exclusion from the legislative and executive functions." --Thomas Jefferson: Note to Elementary School Act, 1817. ME 17:419

"No religious reading, instruction or exercise, shall be prescribed or practiced [in the elementary schools] inconsistent with the tenets of any religious sect or denomination." --Thomas Jefferson: Elementary School Act, 1817. ME 17:425

Now you could read that as simply an effort to keep things vague and ambiguous and non-denominational with no real ministers whatsoever, or in the spirit I believe intended which is not so much to ensure vague, non-denominational, math-teacher-led "Godism" in public schools, but ensure against any monopolization or politicalization by any sect.

Like has been pointed out, teaching about religion is just fine (though I doubt Christians will like the consequences), but why would we pay gym teachers from public funds to instruct in matters of prayer and faith? Just preaching/teaching monotheism (which some argue Christianity is not) not only is "inconsistent with the tenets of [some] religious sects or denomination(s)" but was at the time of America's "founding" when it was stolen from non-Christian native Americans.

Public prayer pushers act like they all agree on things, when the world just isn't like that. I know very mainstream "Christian" churches that HATE each other and think the others do everything wrong and get nothing right. That's not an anomoly, it's typical now. I can't begin to imagine the PTA fights over that divorced Presbyterian hussey leading prayers in my school is a crime, we Baptists should get our own! There's just no pleasing anybody and no agreeable watered down "God" you can shape to one size fits all, and that doesn't even begin to take non-believers into consideration (typical of our hysterical, intolerant, Xtian friends).

I just don't even respect the effort. It's not sincere. It's politics.