A Free Energy Idea

a reply to: p75213

Answer this question:

What happens to the voltage in a capacitor in an AC circuit and why? What does the current do?

originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: p75213

Answer this question:

What happens to the voltage in a capacitor in an AC circuit and why? What does the current do?

The current builds the voltage. However in an electric field the voltage is already there.

physics.stackexchange.com...

"The external electrical field would change the voltage, and thus the charge on the capacitor."

Moving electrical energy around always comes at a cost IE resistance & impedance so a resonant circuit needs those losses compensated by adding more energy continuously after the initial input to establish resonance. Extracting a portion of that energy means even more input required (plus more losses)

No free lunch here

Using superconductors might make something like this more likely to work, but still, you couldn't 'harvest' that energy in the circuit without bringing it to a standstill. So perpetual motion is probable, perpetual motion machine (supplying energy) is not.

originally posted by: Pilgrum
Moving electrical energy around always comes at a cost IE resistance & impedance so a resonant circuit needs those losses compensated by adding more energy continuously after the initial input to establish resonance. Extracting a portion of that energy means even more input required (plus more losses)

No free lunch here

Using superconductors might make something like this more likely to work, but still, you couldn't 'harvest' that energy in the circuit without bringing it to a standstill. So perpetual motion is probable, perpetual motion machine (supplying energy) is not.

Once again: The extra energy comes from the external electric field.

originally posted by: p75213

Once again: The extra energy comes from the external electric field.

Therefore all you can out of the device is what you put in minus a variety (quite a few) of losses.

Maybe you need to construct a prototype to see how it works out

It's just an idea I am throwing around. I don't think losses would be a problem as the energy would build and destroy the device if there were no checks in place.

a reply to: p75213

So with a lossless inductor and a lossless capacitor in a lossless circuit would, theoretically, make continuous oscillation possible - any magnetic fringing from the inductor amounts to lost energy (radiated off in the surroundings) so those theoretical ideal devices remain theory only.

You'd achieve a better outcome with a huge flywheel but still no free energy.

originally posted by: Pilgrum
a reply to: p75213

So with a lossless inductor and a lossless capacitor in a lossless circuit would, theoretically, make continuous oscillation possible - any magnetic fringing from the inductor amounts to lost energy (radiated off in the surroundings) so those theoretical ideal devices remain theory only.

You'd achieve a better outcome with a huge flywheel but still no free energy.

It's not lossless. The energy derived outweighs the losses.

a reply to: p75213
Oh man, it was a good idea up and to the word pancake. Everything else after that word. Does not seem to be a point to it, in fact does not seem to be a point to free energy if it can not make infinite free pancakes. I suppose making a infinite energy loop to power something could be done, would not be that hard to do either.

But making infinite pancakes, were would one get the material for such a endeavor? Cake batter and all? So the whole idea is a scraper.

originally posted by: p75213
Picture this.
A pancake coil sits atop a large capacitor made of two sheets of aluminium separated by a plastic dialectic. The pancake coil is fed by alternating current.
1. The electric field from the pancake coil charges the capacitor.
2. The current from the collapsing magnetic field of the pancake coil further charges the capacitor.
3. The capacitor discharges into the coil.
4. Go to 1.

This would result in a runaway situation if controls weren't provided.

You are moving energy from coil to the capacitor and back. Where is the extra energy supposed to be coming from?

originally posted by: moebius

originally posted by: p75213
Picture this.
A pancake coil sits atop a large capacitor made of two sheets of aluminium separated by a plastic dialectic. The pancake coil is fed by alternating current.
1. The electric field from the pancake coil charges the capacitor.
2. The current from the collapsing magnetic field of the pancake coil further charges the capacitor.
3. The capacitor discharges into the coil.
4. Go to 1.

This would result in a runaway situation if controls weren't provided.

You are moving energy from coil to the capacitor and back. Where is the extra energy supposed to be coming from?

The thread is only two pages long and you haven't read it. I suggest you do so. However once again: The extra energy comes from the external electric field.

originally posted by: p75213

originally posted by: moebius

originally posted by: p75213
Picture this.
A pancake coil sits atop a large capacitor made of two sheets of aluminium separated by a plastic dialectic. The pancake coil is fed by alternating current.
1. The electric field from the pancake coil charges the capacitor.
2. The current from the collapsing magnetic field of the pancake coil further charges the capacitor.
3. The capacitor discharges into the coil.
4. Go to 1.

This would result in a runaway situation if controls weren't provided.

You are moving energy from coil to the capacitor and back. Where is the extra energy supposed to be coming from?

The thread is only two pages long and you haven't read it. I suggest you do so. However once again: The extra energy comes from the external electric field.

What is the energy source of the external electric field?

a reply to: moebius

The pancake coil.

I'm thinking AC is not really necessary. Pulsed DC would be the proper choice.

My friend,

You just described a basic resonant circuit.

originally posted by: More1ThanAny1
My friend,

You just described a basic resonant circuit.

But that's not the source of the extra energy.

originally posted by: p75213
a reply to: moebius

The pancake coil.

But the coil is driven by the capacitor, is it not?

The total energy (electric and magnetic) of the coil is equal to the energy of the capacitor.

a reply to: p75213

What extra energy?

originally posted by: moebius

originally posted by: p75213
a reply to: moebius

The pancake coil.

But the coil is driven by the capacitor, is it not?

The total energy (electric and magnetic) of the coil is equal to the energy of the capacitor.

The energy of a coil is contained in the magnetic field. The formula is e = LI^2. Where e = energy, L = inductance and I = current(magnetic field). However, in this case the capacitor receives extra charge in the shape of the external electric field of the pancake coil. So each time the capacitor is charged it receives more than the previous time.The same applies to the coil.