Why ask why?

a reply to: Skorpiogurl

I understand I have and still do feel the same myself. It’s no use casting pearls before swine though. Keep your own council, nurture your own truth, have the courage of your convictions and fear not. There is a light that never goes out and it’s the essence of who you really are. In your darkest moments remember this too shall pass.

i am not sure if a dog is simply a dog and nothing else. that's why.

originally posted by: Damla
i am not sure if a dog is simply a dog and nothing else. that's why.

Haha... what else would a dog be?
But I know what you're saying. I always say that my dog is an old soul, and that he's been around before.
What I meant was.. a dog just wants to be a dog and do dog things, it doesn't question why. It doesn't question why it's here or what or who created it, or what it's purpose is. It just is.

originally posted by: Skorpiogurl
a reply to: surfer_soul

Okay but then it's super easy for folks to say "well there's no proof or evidence of God so I don't believe". I think that's a cop-out.

Faith is belief absent proof.

God cannot be proven anymore than He can be disproven.

Nothing I've seen that people point to as proof He isn't there has shaken my belief that He is, but my belief that He is is based partially on my personal understanding of how cosmology is. Of course, I have no proof it's actually that way.

But if you're a thinking being, it all has to be sorted out in a way you can accept before you can go on.

IME, most people who decide to stop believing seem to be stung by the notion God doesn't just hang out in the tangible clouds wearing a big beard much there is no actual jolly old elf in the North Pole.

a reply to: Skorpiogurl

how do you know it doesnt?

originally posted by: Skorpiogurl
I have some simple questions. Please don't be a jerk about it, just genuine honest questions. thanks!

Why does it seem like people have to prove that they have faith? Is it that they are really just as lost as the person they are trying to convince and not knowing what to believe? or not trusting in their own faith, so they try to prove it mostly to themselves? Why do people need proof of God or a higher being? how can they not believe when they can clearly see everything around them? How much proof would be enough? What kind of proof would it have to be? If someone already believes, why spend so much time asking "why" and trying to decipher and figure it out? Is not simply just to believe enough? If you're a dog, you don't have to be convinced that you're a dog, you're just a dog and you're content with that you know?

Because...people in positions of power within the church abuse their power by manipulating people with silly superstitions.

The atheist position is very simple. Atheisim is a lack of belief in God or Gods. Most atheist believe in realism. If God cannot be a shared experience like the way we experience and apple, then God only exist in our imaginations.

In terms of religion, the purpose of religion is the answer the four great existential questions:

1. Who am i?
2. Why am I here?
3. What does it all mean?
4. What is going to happen to me when I die?

People have many different belief systems and dogmas for answering these four questions. Just because someone has a different belief system than you do doesn't mean they are wrong. All belief systems are built on a set of premises or axioms that are considered to be true without any proof. For theists, all theists choose to have the axiom, "God exists." It is the nature belief systems that people who do not share the same set of axioms that you have will seem insane. Unless someone share the same axioms as you do then they will say things you will think are just insane. However, that does not mean what they are saying is not the truth. It's just the way the semantics of language works.

As far as I can tell, there is no way to tell objectively which dogma is the correct one. As far as I can tell, all belief systems are about equal but just have different sets of axioms. Of course, most people will argue their own belief system or dogma is the only right one or correct one. That's just the way human nature works.

a reply to: surfer_soul

It’s not as if god requires or would require anyone’s belief in it to exist

From my many years of studies I would speculate with some certainty that god/God/gods arise and wane in power commensurate with how much belief the masses invoke on them.

Miracles seem to happen around the Madonna for example. But it was not always so judging from earlier writings.

en.wikipedia.org...æval_Mariology

The Middle Ages saw a growth and development of Mariology. Belief in the Assumption of Mary became widespread across the Christian world from the 6th century onward, and is celebrated on 15 August in both the East and the West.[9] The Medieval period brought major champions of Marian devotion to the fore, including Ephraim the Syrian, and John Damascene.

The majority of Western Marian writers during this period belonged to the monastic tradition, particularly the Benedictines. The twelfth and thirteenth centuries saw an extraordinary growth of the cult of the Virgin in western Eur

Then there are certain activities/rituals one may practice in calling hierarchies of beings using sigils chants etc.

Now some say we are god experiencing an physical existence and ultimately we find our way home to the Monad.

Where it gets interesting is perhaps even stars are gods - sustaining each solar system for life.

evidence enough

For the seeker there comes a time through personal revelation where experiently they have sufficient "truth" that it becomes evidence for them.

a reply to: Skorpiogurl

What I meant was.. a dog just wants to be a dog and do dog things, it doesn't question why. It doesn't question why it's here or what or who created

wiki

Do animals have a conscience? Consequently, the weight of evidence indicates that humans are not unique in possessing the neurological substrates that generate consciousness. Non-human animals, including all mammals and birds, and many other creatures, including octopuses, also possess these neurological substrates.

When we drove our dog to the vet to be euthanized it knew, we could see it in his eyes. Take that how you will.

All that is true, life knows life, it knows it is life. It s consciousness.

a reply to: Skorpiogurl
Faith is the belief in something with no proof, so it should rightly always be questioned. If not questioned, because of the lack of proof, the belief may be a delusion and adhering to the belief blindly can lead to close-mindedness and a brittle world view easily shattered (just look at fundamentalists).

For me the flying spaghetti monster (or something even sillier) is just as valid as any other concept of god, so for all practical purposes, god/s may as well not exist.

My belief is based on the logical extension of known facts into universal probabilities, which for me evidently excludes an omnipotent meddler. If there is a god, it seems that it can't meddle at risk of invalidating its own creation, so currently it seems that god is relegated to the universal initiator. Though odds are still out on whether there is some universal "power" or if the universe is just recursive, meaning the universe is here because it is here.

I swear my dog and cat can understand the power of my mind telepathy. I could not work telepathy with human mind tho. I usually end up getting slap in the face by women. They think I'm pervet. Lol.

a reply to: Skorpiogurl

I think a knowledge of God's existence and curiosity are both inherent properties of the human soul. We all fundamentally know God exists, even the so-called atheists; furthermore, we all want to know why things are as they are. These properties are similar to Jungian archetypes. The problem is, that we also have lusts. We lust for power, money, dominion, sex, entertainment, instant gratification, etc. When we feed the lusts more than the inherent desire to know God, then we become embittered, and tend to run from the truth to chase our lusts in the darkness.

To answer your question as to why we desire to prove faith; I think God put it in our hearts to want to know Him, and to want to ask why, so that He can teach us why. There is joy in sharing wisdom. What good is omniscience if it cant be shared.

Why to people feel the need to proselytize their faith?

Misguided altruism. If you believe you have the right view, you may naturally want to share it with your brother...or, if you're a bit more morbid, you want your brother to recognize the veracity of your assertions so that they might marvel over you as a source of truth--God complex.

originally posted by: Skorpiogurl
Is not simply just to believe enough?

No, ...

Romans 10:9,10

9 For if you publicly declare with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and exercise faith in your heart that God raised him up from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one exercises faith for righteousness, but with the mouth one makes public declaration for salvation.

1 Corinthians 9:16,17

Now if I am declaring the good news, it is no reason for me to boast, for necessity is laid upon me. Really, woe to me if I do not declare the good news! 17 If I do this willingly, I have a reward; but even if I do it against my will, I still have a stewardship entrusted to me.

2 Corinthian 4:13-15

13 Now because we have the same spirit of faith as that of which it is written: “I exercised faith, therefore I spoke”; we too exercise faith and therefore we speak, 14 knowing that the One who raised Jesus up will raise us up also with Jesus and will present us together with you. 15 For all these things are for your sake, so that the increase of the undeserved kindness should abound even more because many more are offering thanksgiving to the glory of God.

Hebrews 13:15

Through him [Jesus] let us always offer to God a sacrifice of praise, that is, the fruit of our lips that make public declaration to his name.

At one point in his career, Jeremiah the prophet of God said, “I became an object of laughter all day long; everyone is holding me in derision.” Momentarily he weakened and considered stopping his prophetic work because of the unceasing reproach and jeering. But he recognized that it was “for the word of Jehovah” that the derision came, and God’s word in his heart proved to be like a burning fire that he could not endure to hold in. ... ​—Jer 20:7-11.

Source: Ridicule: Insight on the Scriptures, Volume 2

Jesus also mentioned that "out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks." (Matthew 12:34) And he commanded Christians to teach people "to observe all the things I have commanded you." (Matthew 28:19, 20)

2 Timothy 4:1-5

I solemnly charge you before God and Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by his manifestation and his Kingdom: 2 Preach the word; be at it urgently in favorable times and difficult times; reprove, reprimand, exhort, with all patience and art of teaching. 3 For there will be a period of time when they will not put up with the wholesome* [Or “healthful; beneficial.”] teaching, but according to their own desires, they will surround themselves with teachers to have their ears tickled.* [Or “to tell them what they want to hear.”] 4 They will turn away from listening to the truth and give attention to false stories. 5 You, though, keep your senses in all things, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelizer,* [Or “keep preaching the good news.”] fully accomplish your ministry.

a reply to: Skorpiogurl

No matter what the Bible might say about the definition of faith, I think our core beliefs arise from personal experience. I was raised in a church going family but fell away around the time of high school and college. At one point I was in a Camaro with the driver going about 80, weaving around traffic when the car left the road and drove head first into the face of a cliff about 15' from the side of the road.

The moment before we hit, I prayed. Thought I didn't believe in god but during those last moments I learned the meaning of no atheists in foxholes. Afterward I realized that must be what I really believed. Add to that, I was the only one of three that walked away. Sure, there were some broken bones but the others were less lucky.

Since then I came to the conclusion that unless you have a personal experience of some sort, you probably don't know what you believe. My faith has been reinforced many times over the years.

originally posted by: whereislogic

2 Timothy 4:1-5

I solemnly charge you before God and Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by his manifestation and his Kingdom: 2 Preach the word; be at it urgently in favorable times and difficult times; reprove, reprimand, exhort, with all patience and art of teaching. ...

Now let's talk about this "art of teaching" that involves 'reproving, reprimanding, exhorting'. Cause it relates to your question "Why do people need proof of God or a higher being?"

Education: Insight on the Scriptures, Volume 1

The imparting or acquisition of knowledge and skill. Education is accomplished through (1) explanation and repetition; (2) discipline, training administered in love (Pr 1:7; Heb 12:5, 6); (3) personal observation (Ps 19:1-3; Ec 1:12-14); (4) reproof and rebuke (Ps 141:5; Pr 9:8; 17:10).

Jehovah God is the great Educator and Instructor, of whom there is no equal. (Job 36:22; Ps 71:17; Isa 30:20)
...
Jesus was the teacher par excellence. Even among his contemporaries he was acknowledged as a teacher of exceptional influence and popularity. His disciples used to call him “Rabbi,” which means “Teacher” or “Instructor.” (Mr 9:5; see RABBI.) ...

First of all, as he said, Jesus did not speak of his own initiative but came in his Father’s name and spoke the things that he had learned from his Father. (Joh 5:19, 30, 43; 6:38; 10:25) He was an intimate of Jehovah God, being his only-begotten Son from the heavens, and as such he was the very best teacher concerning the qualities, works, and purposes of his Father. (Mt 11:27) He had the next most vital qualification of a good teacher in that he loved those whom he taught. (Mr 10:21; Joh 13:1, 34; 15:9, 12) Few teachers have loved their disciples so much that they were willing to give their lives for them, as Jesus did. (Joh 15:13) ...

Jesus’ teaching included reproof and discipline. (Mr 8:33) He taught by example as well as by word; thus he personally carried out a vigorous campaign of preaching and teaching. ...

Education and the Christian Congregation. Jesus’ disciples followed his footsteps in Christian educational work and had success similar to his. They not only preached the good news of God’s Kingdom everywhere but also taught those who would listen. (Ac 2:42) ... They taught in the temple, in synagogues, and from house to house. (Ac 5:16, 21; 13:14-16; 20:20) They met with fellow Christians for teaching and inciting one another to love and fine works.​—Ac 20:7, 8; Heb 10:24, 25.

The apostle Paul described the different offices and activities in the congregation that were filled by mature men, among them being teachers. He showed that the purpose of all these activities was education, with a view to the training of the holy ones, for ministerial work, for the building up of the body of the Christ. (Eph 4:11-16) A regular program of education in God’s Word was carried on by the congregation, as outlined in 1 Corinthians chapter 14. All the members of the Christian congregation, even the women, were to be teachers; they were to make disciples of the people of the world. (Ac 18:26; Heb 5:12; Ro 12:7) But within the congregation itself mature men were appointed to oversight, as, for example, Timothy and Titus. (1Ti 2:12) Such men had to be those qualified to teach the congregation and to correct things that may have got out of line. They were to use extraordinary care to ensure that their teaching was accurate and healthful.​—1Ti 4:16; 2Ti 4:2, 3; Tit 2:1.
...

Developing the Art of Teaching

...
Teaching is an ability that needs to be developed. It involves explaining the whats, hows, whys, wheres and whens of a matter. Every Christian has need to improve his teaching ability, especially in view of Jesus’ instructions to his followers: “Make disciples of people of all the nations, . . . teaching them.” (Matt. 28:19, 20)

Mt 28:20a

teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you. ...

I mentioned that one in my previous comment, quoting the latter part.

Just some additional information about the meaning of the word "faith" as used in the bible (not to be confused with blind belief, just believing something because you feel like it):

Basis For Faith in an Unbelieving World

originally posted by: dfnj2015

originally posted by: Skorpiogurl
I have some simple questions. Please don't be a jerk about it, just genuine honest questions. thanks!

Why does it seem like people have to prove that they have faith? Is it that they are really just as lost as the person they are trying to convince and not knowing what to believe? or not trusting in their own faith, so they try to prove it mostly to themselves? Why do people need proof of God or a higher being? how can they not believe when they can clearly see everything around them? How much proof would be enough? What kind of proof would it have to be? If someone already believes, why spend so much time asking "why" and trying to decipher and figure it out? Is not simply just to believe enough? If you're a dog, you don't have to be convinced that you're a dog, you're just a dog and you're content with that you know?

Because...people in positions of power within the church abuse their power by manipulating people with silly superstitions.

I figure you're saying manipulation is wrong. Am I right?

originally posted by: dfnj2015

The atheist position is very simple. Atheisim is a lack of belief in God or Gods.

In theory, yes.

On topic, there's proving your faith and succeeding in it, and then there's failing in it.

a reply to: Skorpiogurl

Why does it seem like people have to prove that they have faith?

Not sure,


I have seen many that do so when its not required.

Many trying to convince that they have a connection with .......God... the creator... some supreme intelligence.


Its obvious that they need confirmation, their faith is not as strong as they say and require others to tell them "yes, I believe the same" or "yes, this is right", its confirmation people are after when they speak of their faith when no one asked about it.

If you're a dog, you don't have to be convinced that you're a dog, you're just a dog and you're content with that you know?

Yes,

one could argue that us, with our awareness are actually less aware of our purpose than a dog or any other animal that just lives via how nature dictates not how their minds dictate.

originally posted by: puzzlesphere
a reply to: Skorpiogurl
Faith is the belief in something with no proof,...

That's called "blind faith". "Faith" and "belief" are synonyms. Faith/Belief is not automatically or always blind faith/belief (see your own usage of the word "belief" below). The type of faith/belief described in the bible at Hebrews 11:1 for example is definitely not blind faith/belief (see the link at the end of my previous comment entitled "Basis For Faith in an Unbelieving World", at 6:33 in that video Hebrews 11:1 is discussed).

My belief is based on the logical extension of known facts into universal probabilities, which for me evidently excludes an omnipotent meddler. If there is a god, it seems that it can't meddle at risk of invalidating its own creation, so currently it seems that god is relegated to the universal initiator. Though odds are still out on whether there is some universal "power" or if the universe is just recursive, meaning the universe is here because it is here.

Your ending way of reasoning there about the universe is a sign of circular reasoning*, but anyway, I wanted to focus on the first part of what you said there. *: also addressed in the 2nd part of the video linked below about "Purposeful Design or Mindless Process?"

Which Approach Is More Reasonable? Awake!—2011

...
Which View Fits All the Facts?

With regard to the origin of the complex molecules that make up living organisms, some evolutionists believe the following:

1. Key elements somehow combined to form basic molecules.

2. Those molecules then linked together in the exact sequences required to form DNA, RNA, or protein with the capacity to store the information needed to carry out tasks essential to life.

3. The molecules somehow formed the specific sequences required to replicate themselves. Without replication, there can be neither evolutionary development nor, indeed, life itself.

How did the molecules of life form and acquire their amazing abilities without an intelligent designer? Evolutionary research fails to provide adequate explanations or satisfying answers to questions about the origin of life. In effect, those who deny the purposeful intervention of a Creator attribute godlike powers to mindless molecules and natural forces.

What, though, do the facts indicate? The available evidence shows that instead of molecules developing into complex life-forms, the opposite is true: Physical laws dictate that complex things​—machines, houses, and even living cells—​in time break down.* Yet, evolutionists say the opposite can happen. For example, the book Evolution for Dummies says that evolution occurred because the earth “gets loads of energy from the sun, and that energy is what powers the increase in complexity.” [*: Such decay is a result of what scientists call the second law of thermodynamics. Put simply, this law states that the natural tendency is for order to degenerate into disorder.]

To be sure, energy is needed to turn disorder into order​—for example, to assemble bricks, wood, and nails into a house. That energy, however, has to be carefully controlled and precisely directed because uncontrolled energy is more likely to speed up decay, just as the energy from the sun and the weather can hasten the deterioration of a building.* Those who believe in evolution cannot satisfactorily explain how energy is creatively directed. [*: DNA can be altered by mutations, which can be caused by such things as radiation and certain chemicals. But these do not lead to new species.​—See the article “Is Evolution a Fact?”]

On the other hand, when we view life and the universe as the work of a wise Creator who possesses an “abundance of dynamic energy,” we can explain not only the complexity of life’s information systems but also the finely tuned forces that govern matter itself, from vast galaxies to tiny atoms.​—Isaiah 40:26.

Belief in a Creator also harmonizes with the now generally accepted view that the physical universe had a beginning. “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth,” says Genesis 1:1.

Invariably, new discoveries tend to make the philosophy of materialism increasingly hard to defend, a fact that has moved some atheists to revise their views. Yes, some former atheists have come to the conclusion that the wonders of the universe are visible evidence of the “invisible qualities” and “eternal power” of our Creator, Jehovah God. (Romans 1:20) ...

ARE HUMANS EVOLVING OR DETERIORATING?

Some scientists are expressing serious concern that the human genome is actually deteriorating as a result of accumulating mutations, or imperfections [whereislogic: see for example the article below]. If true, this fact would undermine the view that we are evolving, or improving. But if God created the human genome, why does it have flaws? The Bible tells us what science cannot​—that human imperfection stems from sin, or disobedience to God. “Through one man [Adam] sin entered into the world and death through sin,” says Romans 5:12. A deteriorating genome, therefore, argues against evolution but in support of the Bible. Does this mean that the genome will continue to deteriorate indefinitely? No! God has promised to intervene in human affairs and undo all the harm caused by our original parents. Yes, our Creator, not mindless evolution, will perfect our genome.​—Revelation 21:3, 4.

...

Contamination of the genome by very slightly deleterious mutations: why have we not died 100 times over? - PubMed - NCBI; by AS Kondrashov

More info:

Purposeful Design or Mindless Process? 1 of 2