Now the Dems are bribing people for their votes.

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: BrianFlanders

It's certainly part of what Johnson did to bribe voters. A social net is not a terrible concept. Bit the way we do it certainly is.

I don't think it really can be done in a way that doesn't either leave it wide open for abuse or end up being inhumane for the people who have to use it.

Frankly, I don't like putting stipulations on survival any more than I like raising taxes to pay for someone's beer habit. Not sure there even is a workable middle ground to that. I think the government generally fails bad at nuance in legislating.

a reply to: Sublimecraft

Look at all the stars this comment got. Hint Hint....

a reply to: network dude

the point is, this isn't hidden behind some lobbying group, it's blatant and in your face, and it's bribing, or trying to bribe, for a vote.

It's not being hidden. It's in the open for people to see.

It's in the news, isn't it? We're talking about it, arent we?

I do believe that Lobbying should be illegal and if you run for any office, there is a set amount you can spend, so everyone gets the same airtime and coverage.

Same airtime and coverage? That would require regulation and government intervention. That would require an intrusion on the freedom of the press.

I'm also for term limits, but my opinion doesn't seem to count for much, other than to trigger a particular poster to attack a word, or an idea.

Stop whining.

a reply to: BrianFlanders

Off topic but the ubi certainly seems like a good middle ground if a working model is possible. An algorithm gives everyone the same check no administrations or qualifications.

Of coarse probably millions of beaucratic government jobs would vanish but it could be a wash. We pay the same but everyone gets a check.

You can then decide to just donate to a cause if you don't need it.

However, it would take a total reboot in education and require a flat tax to work. Also I think a majority of healthcare should be required to operate as nonprofit and the government stays out after that. So the ubi would include previous Medicare any healthcare, SSI, food stamps, welfare, etc, current payment amounts...then private non profits exist to donate to for those who don't need the ubi or have higher income if they want. Make it simple like checking boxes.

Since all those things actually benefit us and politicians don't have time to do such hard and brave work we just keep swinging on the last bad idea.

a reply to: Martin75

Please show me where the NRA has bought a vote. Yes La lobbying disgust me however this is not lobbying this is buying a vote.

Seriously?

I have never seen an NRA ad that says we will pay your opponent $1000000 if you do not vote the way we want. Please show me these ads please show me where the right is doing this.

The NRA does not have to do that. Look at the figures above. Politicians know the NRA will give money to their opponent if they do not vote the way they want.

so, let me see, unless one was recommended by the federalist society and supported by the christian right, they would have not been considered for the appointment... so basically someone already told the nominee that unless you are gonna be pro-life, ultra conservative in your decisions on the court, forget it.
and the christian right actually comes up with lists, grading our legislators and those considering running, hey you won't get a good grade unless you adhere to our agenda. these list will inform the christian community as to who they should vote for, who they shouldn't, who they should be sending their money to support.

sorry, but I fail to see the difference here. if they managed to crowdfund enough money to actually swing the election over this nominee then I would have to say that it's probably the will of the people that this nominee not be placed on the supreme court. that the people don't really want an ultra conservative christian version of a sharia law court system!

originally posted by: dawnstar
so, let me see, unless one was recommended by the federalist society and supported by the christian right, they would have not been considered for the appointment... so basically someone already told the nominee that unless you are gonna be pro-life, ultra conservative in your decisions on the court, forget it.
and the christian right actually comes up with lists, grading our legislators and those considering running, hey you won't get a good grade unless you adhere to our agenda. these list will inform the christian community as to who they should vote for, who they shouldn't, who they should be sending their money to support.

sorry, but I fail to see the difference here. if they managed to crowdfund enough money to actually swing the election over this nominee then I would have to say that it's probably the will of the people that this nominee not be placed on the supreme court. that the people don't really want an ultra conservative christian version of a sharia law court system!

I think this thread serves as a great example of the disconnect many people have from the reality in which we live and how politics can be used to perpetuate ignorance and arrogant superiority.

a reply to: network dude

First of all, where is this money coming from?

Oh, thats right... Its going to be regular people. Normal folks. Nothing wrong with taking donations accumulated from the pockets of regular working folks.

There is something wrong with taking large donations from individuals with business interests which might be effected by policy shifts which favour the regular person, and disadvantage the affluent, which are what is needed in the world today, unless we are happy to see the world as we know it simply cease to exist before the next three hundred years are up.

While I still find the whole money is free speech ruling detestable I have to admit the crowd sourcing is the closest to what it should be for.

Corporations with their lobbies have been doing it forever all while keeping their agenda and backroom agreements secret. This, on the other hand, is direct and has the look of honesty.

I might start me a Patreon page.....


For pledging $1 you will receive my deepest gratitude and political support!

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$100 I will urge voters to support Democrats in November's midterm elections.

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$10,000 gets you a well-organize Protest or Riot. Your choice!

$1,000,000 gets my vote for Democrat in midterm or during presidential elections!

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: luthier

the point is, this isn't hidden behind some lobbying group, it's blatant and in your face, and it's bribing, or trying to bribe, for a vote.

I do believe that Lobbying should be illegal and if you run for any office, there is a set amount you can spend, so everyone gets the same airtime and coverage. I'm also for term limits, but my opinion doesn't seem to count for much, other than to trigger a particular poster to attack a word, or an idea.

The problem here is you chose a tribal wedge issue yo post about. Then you created it as if it doesn't happen, when in reality politicians are threatened like this daily. The Koch brothers commonly write a piece that opposes legislation and then threaten to support a candidate running against a conservative for instance....

So yeah it doesn't pass the sniff test. You wanted to point out the bad liberals.

Like I said. It's a symptom only.

Talking about it as a special root cause circumstance isn't going to rally enough people (from both sides)
To do a damn thing about it. What it does is create a feud and perpetuate divide and conquer.

You are right. And if you can show me where you called out this behavior on the left as well, I will be humbled and apologize to everyone here. If you can't, then perhaps you need to look a bit closer to home with your riotous condemnation.

Democrats are not bribing people for their votes. That is simply propaganda spewed by Fox News. Woe to anyone who thinks Fox News is anything but fake news. Not that it never tells the truth, but it does everything possible to keep people voting Republican when the party clearly works against regular joes like you and me. Not that the Democrats are much better. Corporate Democrats act and vote like moderate Republicans. It's progressive Democrats who want to make America a better place for everyone. But I digress; back to the topic. Kavanaugh is not fit for the Supreme Court. He lies under oath, and espouses legal ideals that undermine your rights. Not only that, but the whole way he has come about as a nominee is utterly shameful. The highest court in the land is being politicized. That's not a good idea, whatever side you are on. That's one arena where objectivity is paramount. Anything less will result in yet more corruption in government. Is that what you want? Better be careful what you ask for, because you just might get it. And, if Kavanaugh is elected, you are going to get it. You can bet on that.

the overall consensus here from the left is this "They did it too, so I'll stick my fingers in my ears and call you bad."

I have some good ammo for any and all threads in the future. Apparently for you to be doing a good job, you have to either not point out things the left does wrong, or at least bring up all the things the right does wrong to balance out the slime.

So all the lefties who champion this behavior, practice what you preach. You set the bar.

originally posted by: tabularosa
Democrats are not bribing people for their votes. That is simply propaganda spewed by Fox News. Woe to anyone who thinks Fox News is anything but fake news. Not that it never tells the truth, but it does everything possible to keep people voting Republican when the party clearly works against regular joes like you and me. Not that the Democrats are much better. Corporate Democrats act and vote like moderate Republicans. It's progressive Democrats who want to make America a better place for everyone. But I digress; back to the topic. Kavanaugh is not fit for the Supreme Court. He lies under oath, and espouses legal ideals that undermine your rights. Not only that, but the whole way he has come about as a nominee is utterly shameful. The highest court in the land is being politicized. That's not a good idea, whatever side you are on. That's one arena where objectivity is paramount. Anything less will result in yet more corruption in government. Is that what you want? Better be careful what you ask for, because you just might get it. And, if Kavanaugh is elected, you are going to get it. You can bet on that.

so the article is false? Do you have anything other than opinion to back that up?

a reply to: network dude

I would sell my vote.. 5 grand ill vote for anyone they want.

I wonder if I could sell it on Ebay...

a reply to: notsure1

I'm cheap, perhaps we could present a bundle and sell two for one, and split the $.

a reply to: network dude

All this does is show how much the will of the people runs contrary to what you want to believe. Your spin on the title is evidence of that.

Your ideology is being destroyed by the same people you are championing as saviors, and all you have is spin.

Good times.

a reply to: network dude

Yes. 5 grand for 1 vote 7500 for 2 Im good with that.

Any takers?

Lobbying = “If you’ll support legislation that will support our business, we’ll donate to your campaign”.

Blackmail = “If you don’t vote the way we demand, you will suffer dire consequences.”

Difference? I think so...

a reply to: Lab4Us

Also Lobbying: “If you don’t support legislation that will support our business, we’ll donate to the other campaign who will.”

At least these liberal activists don’t care about their businesses - they care about women, trans people, gay people, etc.