Nuclear Power Plants At Risk Of Direct Hit By Hurricane Florence

From the article:


"North and South Carolina nuclear power plants are in line for a possible direct hit from Hurricane Florence."

"According to the Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC), there are twelve operating nuclear power plants in the Carolinas that make electricity by the continuous splitting of uranium atoms (i.e., a nuclear reaction). These plants generally reside near a body of water—a river, lake, estuary or ocean—because they require a constant source of water for cooling purposes. Without cooling water, a nuclear reactor will overheat, leading to core damage, containment failure, and release of harmful radiation into the environment."


Could this be the "what if scenario" that not that many are talking about but is a possibility in the next few days? Is this why weather forecasters
are holding back in that area from disclosing this info? (See this thread here on ATS.) www.abovetopsecret.com...

God help us all if this happens this week, or anytime in the future for that matter.

Source: www.zerohedge.com...

One major difference between this hurricane, and Fukujima is lead time.

The technicians in Japan had virtually zero warning... 30 minutes at the most.

The technicians in the Carolinas have several days, and should be able to get ahead of the situation. Several major storms have hit the area since those reactors were commissioned, with no major problems.

I am not saying that it will not happen; I am saying, that it is far less likely.

originally posted by: madmac5150
One major difference between this hurricane, and Fukujima is lead time.

The technicians in Japan had virtually zero warning... 30 minutes at the most.

The technicians in the Carolinas have several days, and should be able to get ahead of the situation. Several major storms have hit the area since those reactors were commissioned, with no major problems.

I am not saying that it will not happen; I am saying, that it is far less likely.

You appear to be correct. I just located this article posted today from an organization I do not like (ny times) but it
appears to support your position:

U.S. Nuclear Power Plants Prepare for Hurricane Florence
"Duke's Brunswick nuclear plant is located near Southport, which is close to where Florence is expected to hit. It is about 4 miles (6 km) from the coast and about 30 miles south of Wilmington, North Carolina. The NRC said in a 2004 report that all of the safety-related structures at Brunswick were waterproof up to 22 feet (6.7 meters) above sea level."

"Several hurricanes have passed close to Brunswick since the two reactors there entered service in 1975 and 1977, including Hurricane Fran in 1996 and Diana in 1984, both Category 3 storms. Hurricane Hugo, a powerful Category 4 storm, made landfall about 150 miles southwest of Brunswick in South Carolina in 1989."

So let's hope the expected hit on Brunswick, which apparently has never happened before, (close only ) does not make history with it's destructive power.

www.nytimes.com...

Well let's hope it holds .... But I'm Not feeling The warm and fuzzies just thinking about it though

If I recall Hurricane Andrew a Category 5 hit a power station head on and the containment building housing the reactors were unscathed.

The containment structures are well designed and can resist alot of force. That being said, the Fukashima reactors all survived the earthquake but the failure was due to unanticipated issues with the cooling system so you never know.

originally posted by: Meldionne1
Well let's hope it holds .... But I'm Not feeling The warm and fuzzies just thinking about it though

I know what you mean. For whatever reason I have been worried about North Carolina since this last Saturday, and waking up every morning since with apprehension about the weather in that area on my mind....I have no known relatives or friends in that area so not sure why.

One would hope that they would have contingency plans for this. A sudden earthquake is a different animal from a hurricane that you have days to prepare for.

But then again, it could probably be successfully argued that it was stupid to build a nuclear power plant in an earthquake zone without a workable contingency plan for the scenario that unfolded in Fukushima. I guess they assumed that scenario would kill a gazillion people anyway so why spend the money.

originally posted by: BrianFlanders
One would hope that they would have contingency plans for this. A sudden earthquake is a different animal from a hurricane that you have days to prepare for.

But then again, it could probably be successfully argued that it was stupid to build a nuclear power plant in an earthquake zone without a workable contingency plan for the scenario that unfolded in Fukushima. I guess they assumed that scenario would kill a gazillion people anyway so why spend the money.

They certainly have contingency plans in place. Nuclear power plants in the U.S. follow very strict guidelines for disaster preparedness. Lead time is key... a hurricane can be forecast a week in advance. With sufficient lead time, reactors can be taken off-line.

The Japanese had next to zero lead time... 30 minutes or so, by most accounts. It could have been Godzilla... it would not have mattered... they had no time to react.

Let's just hope that the contingency plans are sufficient. This storm is shaping up to be a monster.

originally posted by: madmac5150

originally posted by: BrianFlanders
One would hope that they would have contingency plans for this. A sudden earthquake is a different animal from a hurricane that you have days to prepare for.

But then again, it could probably be successfully argued that it was stupid to build a nuclear power plant in an earthquake zone without a workable contingency plan for the scenario that unfolded in Fukushima. I guess they assumed that scenario would kill a gazillion people anyway so why spend the money.

They certainly have contingency plans in place. Nuclear power plants in the U.S. follow very strict guidelines for disaster preparedness. Lead time is key... a hurricane can be forecast a week in advance. With sufficient lead time, reactors can be taken off-line.

The Japanese had next to zero lead time... 30 minutes or so, by most accounts. It could have been Godzilla... it would not have mattered... they had no time to react.

Let's just hope that the contingency plans are sufficient. This storm is shaping up to be a monster.

Well, I'm just saying that they probably could have built the Fukushima plant to survive but it would have been more costly and taken more effort than they were willing to expend. So they just rolled the dice and lost.

originally posted by: BrianFlanders

originally posted by: madmac5150

originally posted by: BrianFlanders
One would hope that they would have contingency plans for this. A sudden earthquake is a different animal from a hurricane that you have days to prepare for.

But then again, it could probably be successfully argued that it was stupid to build a nuclear power plant in an earthquake zone without a workable contingency plan for the scenario that unfolded in Fukushima. I guess they assumed that scenario would kill a gazillion people anyway so why spend the money.

They certainly have contingency plans in place. Nuclear power plants in the U.S. follow very strict guidelines for disaster preparedness. Lead time is key... a hurricane can be forecast a week in advance. With sufficient lead time, reactors can be taken off-line.

The Japanese had next to zero lead time... 30 minutes or so, by most accounts. It could have been Godzilla... it would not have mattered... they had no time to react.

Let's just hope that the contingency plans are sufficient. This storm is shaping up to be a monster.

Well, I'm just saying that they probably could have built the Fukushima plant to survive but it would have been more costly and taken more effort than they were willing to expend. So they just rolled the dice and lost.

The Japanese know far more about earthquakes and tsunamis, than any other country on the planet. Japanese engineers used centuries of records to establish sea walls, building codes, and warning systems... that earthquake was without precedent. They didn't roll any dice, they got blindsided.

originally posted by: madmac5150

originally posted by: BrianFlanders

originally posted by: madmac5150

originally posted by: BrianFlanders
One would hope that they would have contingency plans for this. A sudden earthquake is a different animal from a hurricane that you have days to prepare for.

But then again, it could probably be successfully argued that it was stupid to build a nuclear power plant in an earthquake zone without a workable contingency plan for the scenario that unfolded in Fukushima. I guess they assumed that scenario would kill a gazillion people anyway so why spend the money.

They certainly have contingency plans in place. Nuclear power plants in the U.S. follow very strict guidelines for disaster preparedness. Lead time is key... a hurricane can be forecast a week in advance. With sufficient lead time, reactors can be taken off-line.

The Japanese had next to zero lead time... 30 minutes or so, by most accounts. It could have been Godzilla... it would not have mattered... they had no time to react.

Let's just hope that the contingency plans are sufficient. This storm is shaping up to be a monster.

Well, I'm just saying that they probably could have built the Fukushima plant to survive but it would have been more costly and taken more effort than they were willing to expend. So they just rolled the dice and lost.

The Japanese know far more about earthquakes and tsunamis, than any other country on the planet. Japanese engineers used centuries of records to establish sea walls, building codes, and warning systems... that earthquake was without precedent. They didn't roll any dice, they got blindsided.

So they couldn't have possibly built it to withstand that earthquake (whether it was an unprecedented quake or not)? If they could have but they didn't, they gambled that there would not be a quake larger than any on record. If they could not have possibly designed it to withstand that quake, then they still took the same gamble. And they lost that bet. Now they have no excuses if it happens again.

So, the question is whether or not it would have been possible to do that? If they can't then they should shut down all of their nuclear plants unless such a scenario is completely inconceivable at the location where it is.


At any rate, this discussion is way out of my mental capacity to understand. But I do get basic cause and effect and it seems like to me that they probably just decided it wasn't worth the money and the effort to build it any better than it was. So whatever.

Here's a new article on this topic updated minutes ago: Let's hope the fictional "CORA" scenario creation by FEMA just a few months ago does not become reality, as that scenario does include damage to a nuclear power plant.


East Coast Hurricane Scenario Showed Potential For Disaster
By JEFF MARTIN Associated Press Sep 12, 2018 Updated 7 min ago


"ATLANTA (AP) — Just months ago, disaster planners simulated a Category 4 hurricane strike alarmingly similar to the real-word scenario now unfolding on a dangerously vulnerable stretch of the East Coast.

A fictional "Hurricane Cora" barreled into southeast Virginia and up the Chesapeake Bay to strike Washington, D.C., in the narrative created by the Federal Emergency Management Agency and Argonne National Laboratory.

The result was catastrophic damage, which has some experts concerned that Hurricane Florence could produce a disaster comparable to 2005's Hurricane Katrina and in a part of the country that is famously difficult to evacuate.

The simulated hurricane knocked out power for most gas stations in the Mid-Atlantic region, damaged a nuclear power plant and sent debris into major shipping channels, among other problems, according to a Department of Energy simulation manual.

"What they were trying to do was create a worst-case scenario, but it's a very realistic scenario," said Joshua Behr, a research professor at Virginia's Old Dominion University who is involved in disaster modeling and simulations."

Source: tinyurl.com...

a reply to: madmac5150

The Japanese know far more about earthquakes and tsunamis,...

Yes, they do. They know far more about under-designing reactors, coolant systems, and auxiliary power systems to fail than any one else on Earth. They also know more than anyone else on Earth what happens in a nuclear core melt-down. And of course, the Japanese know more than anyone how to build up a bureaucracy that is unable to response to real-world, known phenomena.

I now a good bit about how power plants operate; what I don't know is why anyone could be so happy to explain in real detail how this supposedly highly-intellectual civilization is incapable of shutting down a nuclear plant before it irradiates the entire Pacific Ocean.

TheRedneck

a reply to: manta78

FEMA's National Level Exercise 2018 and the fictional hurricane Cora is an interesting bit of doom porn.

I believe that the biggest threat to a nuclear power station would be from flooding. If outside power is lost and backup generators are damaged, then there could be issues with some of the cooling units needed for the spent fuel pool.

I think that was one of the problems with Fukushima. The size of the tsunami was so unprecedented that the waves overwhelmed their seawall. Then the flooding took out their backup generators.

The current predictions indicate Florence is headed straight for me. I'm pretty far inland, but we're still going to get walloped hard. Stores are already selling out of bottled water.

-dex

There are a few things that hold us in favor over Fukushima.
Firstly, the reactors under threat are PwR reactors that operate completely differently than Fukushima. In the second place, the USA has the Nuclear Regulatory Committee (NRC) that oversees all power operations. There is no single controlling power grid company that controls everything.

I feel certain that all the power plants in any danger at all are watching the storm approach and are holding their finger right above the button to SCRAM. They know how much time it takes to perform a complete SCRAM, and we know how many hours the storm is from direct impact, They'll be nice and quietly resting by the time any heavy power gets produced. Also, that power is going to be needed for rescue, infrastructure repair, and rebuilding. They'll keep power on until the last minute, out of simply an overabundance of caution. If any plants are shut down and take a direct hit, they'll likely require a reassessment to turn them on again... that can take a couple days when lives are dependent on a couple of minutes.

TheRedneck

a reply to: DexterRiley

I believe that the biggest threat to a nuclear power station would be from flooding. If outside power is lost and backup generators are damaged, then there could be issues with some of the cooling units needed for the spent fuel pool.

The spent used fuel bay in a typical PWR plant in the US is extraordinarily small. A reactor could SCRAM and still survive the spent pools becoming somewhat unconfined. The reactivity released would actually be the minimal expect for directly above the pools, as it was in Japan.

Fukushima was destroyed by flooding, but it wasn't what most seem to think now. The original earthquake was sufficient to damage the cooling lines, in the first place, meaning there was already a shortage of water to SCRAM and cool down. That was a design failure, rooted in the BWR plant design. An additional component to that design failure was that the reactors in a BWR plant are less isolated from the environment around them. Even accepting the BWR design, the facility was not built to the applicable NRC codes used in the US... those require a specific analysis to be conducted on historic earthquakes over a lengthy time span (as in 100 years), and the results are used to set seismic design levels for the plant. That design level is 1.0 magnitude above the highest known earthquake, even if, in some rare occasions, that one rare earthquake is from a point beyond the historical examination required. Fukushima builders ignored known earthquakes to reduce the seismic level the plant would have to be built to.

The Diesel Generators at Fukushima worked perfectly... as long as they had fuel. Once fuel was contaminated by obvious positioning errors on the diesel tanks, all bets were off. Whenever a SCRAM (an emergency shutdown) occurs, the control rods must be inserted into the control assembly. If the control rods are taken out, the reactor runs at maximum speed. The whole purpose of the control rods is to allow the nuclear fuel to be separated by radiation-resistant materials that slow the nuclear reactions to a tiny fraction of their active rate.

Once the nuclear fuel rods reach a high enough temperature, they tend to distort like anything which is super-heated That is the end of being able to effectively shut down the reactor and experiment on the China Syndrome.

So the top priority, above all else, above even life of the workers, at a damaged nuclear plant is to restore power. The easiest way is to just use power grids from other plants in the area. That didn't work for us here back in 2011; the tornadoes took out the Browns Ferry grid-lines smooth as a baby's behind. If that is not feasible, then each plant has two completely separate Diesel Generators (multiple units have one minimum for each unit). If those fail, you got just ten hours to get power there another way... the batteries is all that is left, and screw everyone and everything that even thinks about slowing down those ten hours. There is no higher priority, because if not handled, that lack of power will irradiate a large section of the planet.

Fukushima experienced more delays when trying top hook up the portable generators that had barely been delivered in time.

In short, that plant was a comedy of errors, with every possible bone-headed maneuver being almost expected no matter how ridiculous it sounded.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: madmac5150
One major difference between this hurricane, and Fukujima is lead time.

The technicians in Japan had virtually zero warning... 30 minutes at the most.

The technicians in the Carolinas have several days, and should be able to get ahead of the situation. Several major storms have hit the area since those reactors were commissioned, with no major problems.

I am not saying that it will not happen; I am saying, that it is far less likely.

YES WE had time to do it, but it was over riden by the upper ups

a reply to: TheRedneck

So if the grid is down and electrical backfeed is not available I wonder how much diesel is stored on site for the emergency generators. How many hours/ days would they have without resupply?

a reply to: whywhynot

Many times enough to SCRAM the reactors. Nowhere near enough to supply anyone else. However, if two plants are hit and one has Diesel Generators while one does not, the one that does can usually SCRAM both plants. Of course, there has to be a conductive electrical grid there, and you'd need to switch off the lower-energy grids to prevent Billy Joe Bob's air conditioner from eating up precious power....

TheRedneck

a reply to: manta78

I live here..

The plants are fine..

Just push and tangle and twine

Your apocolyptic nursery rhyme.

One more time?


You guys are #ed in the head.

Why not wish me good night to bed?

Instead?

Selfish fear is very dangerous.

That is all.
Grow the # up
And help humanity,
Dont relish in...
Potential calamity.