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Grooming gangs: ‘Cultural drivers’ to be probed in new inquiry, says Sajid Javid

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posted on Sep, 3 2018 @ 04:33 PM

Sajid Javid is to launch an inquiry into “cultural drivers” behind grooming gangs. The home secretary referenced cases in Rotherham, Rochdale, Oxford, Newcastle and Telford in his speech on child exploitation in Britain. “We’ve witnessed horrendous abuse perpetrated by gangs who have been persistent and determined in places like Rotherham, Rochdale, Oxford, Newcastle and Telford,” said Javid speaking at the headquarters of the NSPCC in London.

“Keeping our children safe will be my mission as home secretary. I have already been clear that I will ask difficult questions about the gangs who sexually abuse our children. There will be no no-go areas of inquiry. I will not let cultural or political sensitivities get in the way of understanding the problem and doing something about it.

“We know that in these recent high-profile cases, where people have been convicted, that those people are disproportionately from a Pakistani background. I have instructed my officials to explore the particular context and characteristics of these types of gangs and if the evidence suggests that there are cultural factors that may be driving this type of offending, then I will take action.

Numerous, high-profile ongoing criminal investigations are being carried out into child exploitation in the UK. Javid’s speech follows research from the Quilliam think-tank which claimed 84 percent of those convicted, since 2005, of child grooming offences were from an Asian background. White offenders were more likely to act alone while Asian offenders often worked in gangs, the research posited. Investigators into the Rotherham grooming-gang suggested that there could be up to 1,500 victims.

It is imperative that the similarities are addressed .

First of all , this is a difficult task , so I'm going to point to obvious cultural factors that are easily noted , and hope that others chip in .

One of the similarities between the grooming gang cases in various cities is the fact that the 'race card' is a notable form of defense for this covertly organised behaviour . I'm in disagreement that only Pakistanis are involved in the utilization of this defensive mechanism , because other minority groups have been noted grooming underage girls , ie Egyptians. While what's in common with Pakistan and Egypt is Islamic beliefs , members of ethnic communities in cities are also Sikhs , Hindus etc . While offenders can hardly be noted for their devout religiosity , the cultural factor then is simply being of a race other than native whites , which all carry the privilege of being able to play 'the race card' .

I'm also in disagreement that only white underage girls are targets of grooming gangs , yet there does seem to be a prevalence of white victims , possibly because those are known to be others than may live within predominantly ethic populated areas of cities , therefore less of a threat to the perpetrators by living in close proximity .

Taxi Operators :

What better way to get to know the populace of a city , than sitting in a taxi , hanging around ? There's a good reason to hang around , watching people go by, if you're employed to do so on a daily basis . Therefore , when he says 'cultural factors' , taxi drivers may be quite literally 'driving' the problem . The suggestion to SJ investigators is this : find out who runs , owns , employs , works, in the taxi trade in cities .Will there be cultural factors in driving people around ? Almost certainly yes , and in every city : don't ignore this then .

Charity Shops :

To relate a personal experience : I was in town , just killing time window shopping , when two Egyptian / Middle Eastern men walked by, looking at me as if I shouldn't be there observing things . Being me I decided to follow them at a distance , and they shortly turned in to a Charity Shop, The Salvation Army . Being bold I followed them in , whereupon I found they had gone into a back room inaccessible to the public . To my surprise also , there was an underage pregnant looking girl manning the till , and a Egyptian man of about 21 was stroking her stomach . While assuming this was a situation (on topic) I addressed the man saying that "it is not acceptable in Britain to touch women that are under a certain age , that being at a minimum of 16" I also addressed the girl asking if she was ok with that behaviour , and also that if she was concerned about his advances then she should stay away from him , preferably at home, because she had protected her stomach ( containing possible baby) from his approach . I received no replies , except an embarassed nod from the girl and an angry stare from the Egyptian . I informed him that the shop would now remain under suspicion and left , informing a contact in the market square about what had unfolded .


Primary Childrens and Adolecents Mental Health Services

When in Oxford I visited the Mental Health Advocacy Office which distributes free literature . It is on the same grounds as the large new NHS complex in Cowley , and PCAMHS have taken the entire top deck of the wide 3 storey structure , and were only labelled as PCAMHS on the ground floor . While in the office , a senior staff member was asked , what is PCAMHS ? The answer came as "I dont know" . Having a sixth sense for liars , the issue was pressed with"'it's over there in the new building on the top floor" , however the answer was "I dont know what it is" which came with dark flushing to the cheeks etc , an fairly obvious lie and a cause of obvious embarassment . Coming from someone running such an office , suspicion was immediate . On further investigation of another premises of the pcamhs group , it was discovered that a device was present at the entrance, emitting sound inaudible to adults but audible and offensive enough to disperse children, such as those used by shops with persistent problems of teenagers hanging around the entrances .
On topic , cultural issues played a part also , in that many of the mental health staff in Oxford were found to be of African origin , often Nigerian or Rhodesian . On speaking with one such mental health assistant , she revealed that an NHS recruitment programme had been/was in effect in her country Rhodesia , hence she had been given travel and work permits etc and a job within mental health in Oxford , and that similar circumstances applied to many of her colleagues .
Also on topic , what might PCAMHS and mental health care have to do with the grooming of underage girls , or to do with pedophiles in general ? The answer partly is that complaints made may result in referrals to this area , also that the locking up and forced drugging of children and others may take place in these environments , without oversight by police or any other means of help for potential victims . As it turned out later , these were in fact issues involved with case of Oxford , where mental health and social services professionals were also charged with csa related crimes .

In the park / the bandstand :

Teenagers often girls frequent parks , taking shelter where it is available . A common factor between the cases is that girls at a loose end are picked up and groomed from the actual places where they can be found . In this sense the cultural factor of what activities and places the potential victims go to should also be assessed ,

posted on Sep, 3 2018 @ 05:46 PM
and in the light of that perspective , whether or not adequate steps such as cctv have been taken by local councils , and if neglect is present , then further investigation up the scale is warranted .

Going beyond the cultural factors which have somehow come to define the perpetrators , aka the Pakistanis which SJ has directly pointed out , is also necessary because major failings have been noted in
1. Councils responsibilities
2. Doctors and clinical reponsibilties
3. Social Services
4. Police responses

In the case of local policing , typically their attitude has been one of neglect , so we ask whether the culture of policing has been ineffectual leading to those swollen numbers of victims . It has been reported that Police have viewed victims as 'slags' or similar and that the victims lack of responsibility for their own safety and well-being is their own fault . Its al very well pointing out particular groups as having been the cause , however it is well known that those 4 faction of society pointed out above have contributed to the gross problem if not only by failings .
It is questioned , why does SJ want to take action , only "if" cultural factors are known to drive this issue? Because those are his words . Does he really need the Quilliam foundation to prove simple court statistics ? He is Home Secretary after all . At least he has proposed doing something , even if he has limited his focus . At the same time , if there are so many pedos in Britain , hopefully he can see that those partaking are simply of ethnic origin , and that , the race card is really the only cultural element , barring the obvious fact that ages of consent are notably younger in Asia by tradition .

Because the fact is , these groomers , are normally just the first stage of victimhood for the victims , for example those victims from Telford who were abused by men who travelled by mini-bus to do so . The fact , they've been allowed to get away with this for years and years , therefore is it not the culture within the cities themselves which needs addressing , including those mentioned above in particular . There's a point when apparent neglect , is in fact complicity , and overall this would explain why the victims could not escape their problems, which continued for decades .

posted on Sep, 3 2018 @ 05:49 PM
a reply to: ZIPMATT
Until you have access to all the relevant information with all honesty you cannot say"you disagree with any findings".
Your first sentence was more about the excuses they are using to get justify themselves as a cultural excuse.
NO, it is about race, culture and religion and the sooner people stop pussyfooting around the problem it will never be solved. You want to do something? Think on this. A"native" rapist is nearly always a loner, odd time (and I mean odd times) there may be two.
Now how does a Pakistani rapist tell another guy and gets him to join him in the rapes. For a start just doing the act is illegal, vile and nasty act. That is of course the native western perspective of rape.
Then to accumulate another 10, 20 or 30 men into the crime, THAT is what needs to be addressed.
That number of men quite comfortable continuously raping young girl over years IS a cultural meme and more probably a religious factor.
Because as I've said before that number of men over a long period doing these acts the community has GOT TO KNOW.
Now how does that figure in your equation when their community knows but says nothing.
And that is why the authorities will not release the full descriptions of the perpetrators because it will show culture and religious reasons for justifying their actions.

posted on Sep, 3 2018 @ 05:50 PM
What amazed me was that taxi drivers actually went on strike when the council set up a booking system where women could request a female driver from taxi firms. In other cities like Edinburgh, this is standard.

posted on Sep, 3 2018 @ 05:57 PM
a reply to: stormcell

That definitely of note , they absolutely must look very carefully at taxi firms including all the staff

posted on Sep, 3 2018 @ 06:15 PM
a reply to: crayzeed

I get your point but there are good examples of whites working together eg Salford's Social Services where almost the whole CP department were white pedophiles . Also , was Jimmy Saville white ? Yes . Could he have got away with all that on his own ? No .
Is blaming cultural factors (potentially) still hiding behind a race card ? Yes . Is blaming Pakistanis in fact ignoring the native culture of the city states which allowed the ongoing abuse ? Yes , it seems to be .
Also , how come the NSPCC where he spoke from are not exposed to any scrutiny?

posted on Sep, 3 2018 @ 08:57 PM
These are cases where the government needs to just get the hell out of the way and let justice take its course.

posted on Sep, 4 2018 @ 01:41 AM
This review by the Home Secretary Sajid Javid was announced a few weeks ago. Do you have a source for your quotes?

These grooming gangs got away with it for so long because a vocal minority in local government were so obsessed with multiculturalism that they accepted that the abuse of women and girls was OK because it was "what they do". Those who tried to move against these gangs were sidelined and branded as racist.

Today the whole multicultural thing has been blown. Over the last few years many of these gangs have been broken up and there has been a sea-change in the will to investigate. The culmination of this is the announcement of this investigation which we know will show the perpetrators come from Pakistan and Bangladesh. It does not take a much to recognise this is the case when you read the news. However, what drives this revolting behaviour is not really known, but clearly there's a cultural problem with people who come from backward societies.

posted on Sep, 4 2018 @ 02:47 AM
a reply to: crayzeed
You hit the nail on the head mate

Anyone arguing that this gang grooming and raping of white girls is not a specific Pakistani problem needs their PC head read.

posted on Sep, 4 2018 @ 11:32 AM
a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

Excuse me , do you want to retract that statement ? Or are you going to justify it somehow ?
Seems to me it suits some people with prejudicial racist persuasions to call it a day at 'specific Pakistani problem' .
Clearly you dont understand that Pakistani are just part of the wider community .
Who do you think was onboard the minbuses that were used in Telford to rape children in derelict warehouses ? All Pakistanis ?
Because that would be simply ignorant . Do you think they would need minibuses to sell the services of the girls as they did, to themselves ?
Is using Pakistani groomers to go ahead and rape kids just the Pakis doing the raping or white men using them to get their kicks ? So it doesnt stop with jjust Pakistanis DOES IT MATEY ?
SMH , that's a f ignorant point of view , or one with an agenda . And its people like you who trainwreck legit threads with your throw em off a cliff attitude . Yeah we hate them , but it doesn't do to bang on and on about it .
I'm assuming you're here because you want to throw Pakistanis off cliffs, or make a shield for white pedos who are the townsmen of cities , and to hell with matters of fact !

edit on 4-9-2018 by ZIPMATT because: (no reason given)

posted on Sep, 4 2018 @ 11:45 AM
a reply to: ZIPMATT

There is a specific problem within sections of the Pakistani community with regards to grooming poor, young, white girls.
There have been numerous recent instances and many are pending.

These are the cases the CPS and The Police have had the balls to prosecute.
Many have been suppressed.

That isn't to say that these grooming gangs are the only instances of paedophilia, unfortunately far from it.

But Sajid Javid at least seems aware that there is a specific problem here, something the PC Brigade and Generation Snowflake are so afraid to admit.

posted on Sep, 4 2018 @ 01:03 PM
a reply to: Freeborn

Agreed , but in the case of Telford , the police investigators complained that only 7 pakistani men were charged , and stated that some of the victims had over a hundred abusers . They can't ALL have been Pakistanis , no way .
The police investigating also complained that the CPS refused to link the cases, meaning far fewer perpetrators were charged than which should have been . Did the CPS want only particular ethnic groups charged for this ? It seems so . In which case they have been a part of the problem too .

If the grooming gangs become pimps of underage prostitutes , which they do , taking money for their hire , why does the buck only stop with them ? They've been allowed to get away with this for decades . Where I lived in the 90s , the pimps from the area were Indians , not Pakistanis . What's the difference anyway ?

Grooming is one thing , rape is another , and the majority of the (semi consentual or statutory or outright) rapes were carried out by others from within the wider community , who paid for the experience .
Thus , as stated , the race card protected the groomers , from police and victims . And while simplistic, naive understandings of this matter continue to prevail , aka making this whole thing specific to" Pakistanis" or "Asians" (which is it to be ?) then the issue cannot be put to rest properly in all the other cities .

Its a guess but someone may have dreamed this idea up to make it the case , covering up the real issue , which is WHO let the groomers get away with this for so long ?
edit on 4-9-2018 by ZIPMATT because: (no reason given)

edit on 4-9-2018 by ZIPMATT because: (no reason given)

posted on Sep, 4 2018 @ 01:10 PM
a reply to: ZIPMATT
Just check out the names of the convicted rapist groomers, how many cities and towns do you need to be convinced.
Carry on whining like I'm racist or something though, I'll trust the opinion of Sajid Javid over a random anonymous poster on the internet lol.

posted on Sep, 4 2018 @ 01:18 PM
a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

The key word there is 'convicted' . Check out the testimony of police in the linked report .The Pakistanis are simply the front line of attack , and just the tip of the iceberg , and if you really do trust any Home Secretary after Saville &co , it's you who needs your head examined !

posted on Sep, 4 2018 @ 01:23 PM
a reply to: ZIPMATT
So you trust a police report but don't trust the home secretary, you seem confused.
Do you disagree with Sajid Javid investigating this as well?
You know nothing more than I do, you are equal in peasant status so don't give it all large like you have some secret knowledge. And again, random people on the internet don't convince me of anything, but a govt minister inferring that there is a problem particular to a specific social group is more convincing than you.
Need my head examined, grow up fella, you know no more than I do so stop acting like you do.

posted on Sep, 4 2018 @ 01:32 PM

inferring that there is a problem particular to a specific social group

Its not only wrong , it's racist , and it's letting ALL those guilty others from the shires off the hook . What about those senior officers and council staff who just let it carry on so long ? What should we do about them ?

It's correct identification of facts , but wrong usage of those facts .

IMO , of course .

posted on Sep, 4 2018 @ 01:38 PM
a reply to: ZIPMATT
Oh quit the racist silliness, eastern europeans bring all the AK's into the UK, Romanians run most of the sex slave brothels and people smuggling, Kurds have a big hand in smuggled tobacco, basic facts, is that racist as well?
Of course complicit white UK officials need punishing as well, but the groomers who actually passed the white girls around like meat were mostly Pakistani so far in conviction results.
Why you have a problem with that I can't imagine, maybe just PC crap, but it is true, and of course not all Pakistanis are the same, but the community obviously knew because of the numbers yet said # all.
Same as not all Lithuanians smuggle AK's, but it is a side business for many of them in the UK.

posted on Sep, 4 2018 @ 01:49 PM
a reply to: ZIPMATT

A fricken inquiry?! It's well known what the drivers are.

These Pakistani men are raised in a repressive culture that doesn't treat women as equals. Their own communities have all their women covered head to toe. Their culture views non-Muslim girls as whorish and having no humanity. You're right to say it isn't just white girls; it's non-Muslim girls. A sub-culture of predatory, immoral and sadistic scumbags exists and they're the main problem.

The way children in care are looked after is another major factor. Half of the care staff in the UK are untrained. They're on minimum wages and many do the minimum effort. Which groups of children have historically been abused by church organisations? It was children in care again. Orphanages, care homes, poor houses.

As a demographic, looked after children have been victims of more abuse than any other group. Almost all the time, everyone's focus is on the predators and 'justice.' We tend to forget the victims are individuals and see them as abstract statistics.

A mercenary approach to the gangs is to put a price on their heads. £1000 for information leading to a conviction. Prosecute everyone who is proven to have harboured them or kept quiet. DNA test and deport them where possible.

For me, the biggest humanitarian problem isn't groups of Pakistani men. It's our culture of broken families and poverty.

posted on Sep, 4 2018 @ 01:57 PM
a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

Anyone arguing that this gang grooming and raping of white girls is not a specific Pakistani problem needs their PC head read.

Of course complicit white UK officials need punishing as well,

This is the point : How can it be a specific Pakistani problem when there are complicit white UK officials ? What we need is to not let ANY of them off the hook .
Blaming SOME of them specifically WILL let the rest off . See that logic ?
Still trusting the home sec ? Being fair to him he said wont let any political nonsense get in his way in getting to the bottom of it ,BUTt he's still throwing this 'specific' stumbling block that already lost IICSA yet another chairwoman . I dont need my head read - if I'm smelling rats , I'm smelling rats , and they ain';t just Pakistani rats .

posted on Sep, 4 2018 @ 02:01 PM
a reply to: ZIPMATT
Oh there are many rats, but the key rats actually grooming and drugging non Muslim girls were/are of Pakistani origin, hence the investigation to see why.
You seem so desperate to be PC that you won't even accept that as a major issue.
I agree that anyone complicit should be punished, but you won't even allow the blanket statement that Pakistanis were the main foot soldiers in grooming non Muslim girls.
Meet me half way and stop brushing a clear problem in a specific community under the carpet.

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