Former ‘ER’ actress Vanessa Marquez shot and killed by police

originally posted by: DontTreadOnMe
a reply to: BigDave-AR

Sure, and everyone is different.
The ones I have known took far longer to be alert and cognizant....and often they fell asleep....those seizures can take a lot out of you, it appears.

Oh I’m in no way saying that I was anywhere near 100% just getting my bearings as far as where I was and who was supposed to be around was very fast in my case. Afterwards I was semi-out of it on and off but never lost track of where I was the day General time surroundings etc... I’m also the kind of guy that jumps out of anesthesia remembering everything up to passing out so it may just be how I’m “wired”. I agree that gran mal seizures are no joke but you also have to keep in mind that people often try to confuse and distract LEOs with displays such as faked seizures to keep from being take to jail right away, they tend to term it “prisonitus” so Officers are leery about people seizing.
So I will concede that better training is never a bad thing but you have to consider all they deal with and other priorities come first IMO leaving the medical to EMS is always the best policy instead of trying to train cops to handle too many tasks and being able to master none.

a reply to: BigDave-AR

Some good points!
I am one of those who comes out of anesthesia very quickly😉
And I did not take into account people faking!

originally posted by: BigDave-AR
I will say having suffered a gran mal seizure I’m amazed at how quickly I came to

And I will say that having had MANY grand mal seizures that I have never been fully aware and recovered at anything less than an hour later. I may have been up stumbling around and smacking people and throwing things and swearing for at least half an hour. After that I would have been down and in a deep sleep.

You can also have more than one seizure in a row with little or no recovery in-between. This can go on for as long as it goes on. If it was a drug induced seizure, she may very well have had more than one.

A seizure happens to your brain. Now maybe it doesn't always have exactly the same result but in general, it's not a minor thing. A seizure itself generally doesn't last too long but most of the time people wake up feeling like they got hit by a train and not knowing what planet they're on.

I have had epilepsy since I was 16 and I'm 45 and I am here to tell you that people who have just had a bad seizure generally are scared, profoundly confused, tired, hurting all over, possibly bleeding from the mouth. I could not tell you how many times I have fought paramedics not realizing what I was doing. And I'm the type of person who is not normally violent at all. I hate to argue and fight.

The biggest fear anyone with epilepsy probably has is that some idiot will call the cops, who apparently don't know anything about it. More than a few epileptics have been killed by ignorant cops.

originally posted by: BlueJacket
a reply to: DieGloke

serously? what do you know about my country? socialist school teacher?

Socialist?

originally posted by: howtonhawky
I will never understand how someone can shoot before recognizing the type of weapon being pointed at them.

and you obviously have never had to make that choice. Lucky you. When you do have to decide things that could end your life in a fraction of second, be sure to let us know how well you dealt with it.

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: howtonhawky
I will never understand how someone can shoot before recognizing the type of weapon being pointed at them.

and you obviously have never had to make that choice. Lucky you. When you do have to decide things that could end your life in a fraction of second, be sure to let us know how well you dealt with it.

That is funny stuff...

You want me too let you know when i decide that the best way to deal with a threat is too shoot it.

How about no and you are a bit confused.

LOL again cause there was no threat to the officers at any point except there failure to properly secure a scene before calling in unarmed professionals. Some call doing such police procedure.

originally posted by: BigDave-AR

originally posted by: howtonhawky
a reply to: Blaine91555

Nope i am stating facts.

It was a failed threat assessment and does not prove intent or guilt but does show negligence.

When the page loaded and i seen you had posted pics it took all of .2 seconds to recognize the barrel size on the first pic.

The other two pics not so much cause they look alike from the side.

If a cop kills a suspect holding a non lethal weapon then it is a failed threat assessment. fact

Since when does stating a fact equate not siding with police?

You took a mental leap to couple my responses with siding with anyone.

I think you may be predispositioned to protect police at every turn.

Do you expect the cops to let her pull the trigger and gamble with their lives? I do not you can’t try to judge whether a weapon is leather or not in the heat of the moment if someone wants to be killed by the cops they may or may not use a fake or replica firearm or it may be real and they let off shots to give the officers no choice. You play stupid games you win stupid prizes this is why you don’t wave around replica guns around cops.

As i have stated they failed to clear the scene before calling in an unarmed professional. All the rest is beside the point in this situation.

Also there is nothing i have heard of this being a replica gun but it is still beside the point.

originally posted by: scojak
a reply to: howtonhawky

You jumped from "when they take a mental person in" to "a mental professional is being called in". Those are completely different situation.

By calling in a mental health clinician, that actually shows they did not believe she presented a danger to anyone at the time. Otherwise they would have taken her in.

It shows a couple things as i pointed out one being that she presented to be a risk to herself or others and they failed to control the scene for the arrival of a likely unarmed health professional.

originally posted by: roadgravel
Federal code

(f) Effective date

This section shall become effective on the date 6 months after November 5, 1988, and shall apply to toy, look-alike, and imitation firearms manufactured or entered into commerce after November 5, 1988.

This is very interesting since many on here use the term replicas to describe their bb guns and the law clearly states look alike guns. I bet that cost millions in lobbying to find a loophole around that one.

It takes a person not using sound logic and reason to buy a bb gun pistol that is a look alike to a powerful fire arm. Seems like the police and supporters would not want or advocate for fakes out there.

a reply to: howtonhawky

Money wins every time.

originally posted by: howtonhawky

originally posted by: roadgravel
Federal code

(f) Effective date

This section shall become effective on the date 6 months after November 5, 1988, and shall apply to toy, look-alike, and imitation firearms manufactured or entered into commerce after November 5, 1988.

This is very interesting since many on here use the term replicas to describe their bb guns and the law clearly states look alike guns. I bet that cost millions in lobbying to find a loophole around that one.

It takes a person not using sound logic and reason to buy a bb gun pistol that is a look alike to a powerful fire arm. Seems like the police and supporters would not want or advocate for fakes out there.

Read a bit better-

Such term does not include any look-alike, nonfiring, collector replica of an antique firearm developed prior to 1898, or traditional B–B, paint-ball, or pellet-firing air guns that expel a projectile through the force of air pressure.

There are plenty of legitimate reasons for wanting a pellet/BB gun with almost no difference between it and the real deal.

As far as not clearing the room yes that was an oversight but officer safety still takes prescedent there’s always the chance that you missed something so you have to be prepared for any situation.

originally posted by: BigDave-AR

originally posted by: howtonhawky

originally posted by: roadgravel
Federal code

(f) Effective date

This section shall become effective on the date 6 months after November 5, 1988, and shall apply to toy, look-alike, and imitation firearms manufactured or entered into commerce after November 5, 1988.

This is very interesting since many on here use the term replicas to describe their bb guns and the law clearly states look alike guns. I bet that cost millions in lobbying to find a loophole around that one.

It takes a person not using sound logic and reason to buy a bb gun pistol that is a look alike to a powerful fire arm. Seems like the police and supporters would not want or advocate for fakes out there.

Read a bit better-

Such term does not include any look-alike, nonfiring, collector replica of an antique firearm developed prior to 1898, or traditional B–B, paint-ball, or pellet-firing air guns that expel a projectile through the force of air pressure.

There are plenty of legitimate reasons for wanting a pellet/BB gun with almost no difference between it and the real deal.

As far as not clearing the room yes that was an oversight but officer safety still takes precedent there’s always the chance that you missed something so you have to be prepared for any situation.

I understand they are legal and got an exclusion from that law but in reality they should have an orange tip. It would solve many problems for law enforcement if look alike pellet guns had orange tips.

You should check out some of those new 30.06 air rifles they have. Cool stuff.

You mean .30 cal airguns? Yes I’ve seen them they also have .50 cal but .30-06 is a specific cartridge not just the bullet.

originally posted by: howtonhawky

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: howtonhawky
I will never understand how someone can shoot before recognizing the type of weapon being pointed at them.

and you obviously have never had to make that choice. Lucky you. When you do have to decide things that could end your life in a fraction of second, be sure to let us know how well you dealt with it.

That is funny stuff...

You want me too let you know when i decide that the best way to deal with a threat is too shoot it.

How about no and you are a bit confused.

LOL again cause there was no threat to the officers at any point except there failure to properly secure a scene before calling in unarmed professionals. Some call doing such police procedure.

Sounds like 'someone' needs to do a ride-along and see just what you go through being a cop. I'm 100% certain that you will change your mind after, especially if you live in a city where incidents happen more often (not to mention all the crazies in hollywood).

Sorry... If I see a gun being lifted in my direction... I consider my life pretty damn important. That person would be shot the moment that gun, bbgun, metal object that resembles a gun for even a split second, as soon as it starts lifting high enough to cause harm to anyone.

At the assumed lack of threat many of you here consider, there would be lots of dead casualties.

"awe... that's just a BBGun" - Bang! You're dead!
"awe... that gun don't have any bullets" - Bang! Dead!
"awe... that doesn't look like a real gun. Let me measure the hole of the barrel from 20 feet away, between my split second assumption and the amount of time something 'might' come out of the barrel". Bang! Dead!
"awe... that poor person is in distress. They don't mean any harm. They wont shoo..." Bang! Dead again!

If someone can take you out with a knife from 25 feet before you unholster your weapon, do you honestly believe you can assess a situation where someone is pointing a gun in your general direction?

Many of you people act like LEOs are super smart know it all psychics who have every single possibility mapped out in their heads when they go down on a call. All I can say is... Be a cop for one day... Try it and see what it's about, THEN you can come back and tell me how you really feel. Till then, you're just armchair rocket scientist (space cadets) with an opinion.

originally posted by: howtonhawky

originally posted by: scojak
a reply to: howtonhawky

You jumped from "when they take a mental person in" to "a mental professional is being called in". Those are completely different situation.

By calling in a mental health clinician, that actually shows they did not believe she presented a danger to anyone at the time. Otherwise they would have taken her in.

It shows a couple things as i pointed out one being that she presented to be a risk to herself or others and they failed to control the scene for the arrival of a likely unarmed health professional.

Yeah, LEOs are supposed to be there, ARMED and first for obvious reasons. That "unarmed health professional" would have been a dead unarmed health professional had that been a real gun and intention of harm. It's ok though. In this case, he could have only lost an eye or something.... right?

a reply to: howtonhawky

Orange tips are far from permanent even if they DID have one. If I didn't want a real gun in the house because I was 'so afraid of guns' and I went out and bought a BBGun with an orange tip, do you honestly believe I would keep the orange tip on it? It kind of defeats the purpose.


Robber breaks in and sees a gun pointed at him...
"it's cool... it's got an orange tip".

I bet his gun will not have an orange tip.... Neither will mine. And mine doesn't shoot BBs either.

I have a pistol with threads in the end of the barrel. How hard do you think that it would be for me to put an orange tip on it?

originally posted by: JIMC5499
I have a pistol with threads in the end of the barrel. How hard do you think that it would be for me to put an orange tip on it?

Too easy, take of the thread protector off hit it with some orange from the rattle can and throw it back on.

a reply to: BigDave-AR

I was thinking along the lines of taking one from a plastic gun and threading it to fit. It would look more realistic.

I know of at least 3 times that someone has put a orange tip on a real weapon. If you point an orange tip at me in certain situations you are going to get shot.

originally posted by: JIMC5499
a reply to: BigDave-AR

I was thinking along the lines of taking one from a plastic gun and threading it to fit. It would look more realistic.

I know of at least 3 times that someone has put a orange tip on a real weapon. If you point an orange tip at me in certain situations you are going to get shot.

Actually even better would be plastidipping it you’d get the rubber/plastic look and wouldn’t have to worry about a plastic piece breaking off.