Good morning/evening/afternoon (delete as applicable) - wow, why do I suddenly feel so NERVOUS?

originally posted by: ConfusedBrit

As far as labels go, I guess I'm a sceptic - I can only relate what I perceived myself but cannot rush to explanations beyond "Well, that was a bit NUTS". Hence why I registered at ATS. I take my wife and families' personal experiences with a tiny pinch of salt due to the 'Seeing Is Believing' gene I possess that I can't shake, but even if I HAD shared the more extreme events, I still wouldn't leap to conclusions.

But they do 'power me up' to seek the truth whilst I nod or shake my head, scratch and wonder. What ATS has achieved for me already is to dump into my own fake bucket dozens of UFO cases down the years that I once respected and admired. It's like seeing your favourite kittens drowned in front of you, but gotta split the chaff from the wheat as we plough through this strange field.

Taking all that into account, If you haven’t already read it I highly recommend the following book. It’s a wide-ranging look at phenomenology through various disciplines and philosophies. It’s fascinating, intellectually challenging, and personally left me with some new modalities with which to ponder high strangeness events.

The Trickster and the Paranormalby George P. Hansen

About the Author

George P. Hansen was employed in parapsychology laboratories for eight years-three at the Rhine Research Center in Durham, North Carolina, and five at Psychophysical Research Laboratories in Princeton, New Jersey. His research included remote viewing, psychokinesis on electronic random number generators, séance phenomena, and ghosts. His papers in professional journals also cover mathematical statistics, deception, skepticism, conjurors in parapsychology, and methodological criticisms. He is a member of the International Brotherhood of Magicians.

Here’s George’s webpage where you can find essays on some of the topics in the book and other interesting stuff:

The Trickster & The Paranormal

And here’s his Introduction to the concepts which I think is a good start. Here’s an excerpt.

This book is about foretelling the future, the occult, magic, telepathy, mind over matter, miracles, power of prayer, UFOs, Bigfoot, clairvoyance, angels, demons, psychokinesis, and spirits of the dead.  These all interact with the physical world.  This book explains why they are problematical for science.
    
These topics provoke ambivalent feelings.  They hold a strange place in our culture.
    
Some examples —

Fortune-telling is often associated with carnivals, gypsies, and fraud.  Yet many saints have had the gifts of prophecy and of knowing hearts.  Do fraud and sainthood have something in common?

Why did the teacher of the U.S. government’s psychic spies become interested in sightings of the Blessed Virgin Mary?

The terms “magic” and “conjuring” have two meanings—use of occult powers, and the performance of tricks.  The same words are used for both.  Why?

The supernatural features in the world’s greatest literature.  All major religions have stories of miracles.  Over half of the U.S. adult population has had paranormal experiences.  Despite all this, there are no university departments of parapsychology.  In fact as I write, I can identify only two laboratories in the U.S. devoted to parapsychology that employ two or more full-time scientists who publish in peer-reviewed scientific journals.  Why so little research?
Mediums of dubious reputation have been reported to levitate, but so have religious mystics.  What is the connection?

Innumerable movies have been made about extraterrestrial aliens, some grossing hundreds of millions of dollars.  Yet the Mutual UFO Network (MUFON), the largest U.S. organization focused on UFO research, was still headquartered in the home of its founder, 30 years after it began.  Why?

The elite media give the paranormal little serious coverage.  The tabloids often put it on the front page.  Why?

In universities one can study literature of the supernatural.  Academic psychologists and sociologists willingly investigate belief in the paranormal.  However, to attempt direct encounter with the supernatural, or to try eliciting paranormal phenomena in order to observe them directly, brings opposition and hostility.  In this scientific age, why isn’t such rational inquiry welcomed?

Why did so many of the U.S. government’s psychic spies become interested in UFOs?

Funding for scientific investigation of the paranormal has come almost entirely from wealthy individuals.  Virtually no large philanthropic organizations or government bureaucracies have provided substantial, long-term support for the research.  The only exceptions are the intelligence agencies—the only section of government formally allowed to use deception.  Why does the money come from these sources?

Like I mentioned above, the book is somewhat challenging as the author takes you to some scholarly depths in topics as diverse as anthropology, psychology, philosophy, religion, folklore, sociology, semiotics, literary criticism, ufology, witchcraft, skepticism, parapsychology, reflexivity and more all set against the backdrop of compelling case studies and reports of high strangeness in all it's forms.

originally posted by: surfer_soul
a reply to: ConfusedBrit

Great intro, when I’ve looked into poltergeist activity before I’ve come to the conclusion that it has something to do with unconscious psi phenomenon particularly coming from teenage girls. Your account has just dissuaded me of that notion though.

It seems connected to the house itself in your story, which is the common belief so I wonder if some places are literally portals to other dimensions, where the veil is thin between this and other worlds or timelines..

Either way thanks for peaking my interest in this stuff again and looking forward to reading your other posts.

I'm flattered that I've made anyone think twice about anything already, although not my intention, I assure you.

My In-Laws (both deceased now, sadly) moved from that house in late 1997, and I never had a chance to experience more anomalies. However, Strangeness was not unique to the house in that area (East Looe) as I heard various strange tales from locals, mostly of poltergeist incidents, although that glowing disc was seen by quite a few over the years, too.

My wife just reminded me of an experience she had whilst working in a local pub there some ten years earlier (before her folks had moved to Cornwall and purchased THAT house), which seemed to invite a 'temporal' explanation. At closing time one night, the boozed-up regulars began crawling out of the place, but three men sat at one table seemed oblivious to their surroundings, dressed curiously in clothes that seemed vastly out-of-date - the 20s or 30s, she thought. Finally losing patience and bellowing at them to drink up, they seemed genuinely startled. She looked away for a second and turned to find the table empty, no men, no glasses, just an ashtray.

Were they ghosts from the past? Did THEY see HER in their own time, considering their reaction? I have no idea. It''s a juicy campfire tale, though, and I don't know what to make of it.

It all goes into the paranormal melting pot for that area.


PS: @GUT - Thanks for the heads-up on the book; I'll seek it out.

a reply to: ConfusedBritYou could be nervous because you are addressing people you don't really know as if you were doing a Toastmasters. Welcome to the forum. It gets rowdy here sometimes but very interesting.
I'm
Generally more in the mud pit but good to meet ya.

a reply to: ConfusedBrit

Were they ghosts from the past? Did THEY see HER in their own time, considering their reaction? I have no idea. It''s a juicy campfire tale, though, and I don't know what to make of it.

Good points, who really knows? You have peaked my interest in the subject again though so thanks for that.

a reply to: The GUT

I’ll be picking up a copy of that book too, I’m overdue a good read. Thanks for the heads up.

Good afternoon-
I hate to jump in your thread; however, can someone please point me in the direction toward which I might post my introduction?

Thank you!

originally posted by: ThirdEyeofHorus
a reply to: ConfusedBritYou could be nervous because you are addressing people you don't really know as if you were doing a Toastmasters. Welcome to the forum. It gets rowdy here sometimes but very interesting.

Thanks, I'm settling in now. Hell, I've even posted outside this thread. Nice crowd so far.

When trolling was mentioned earlier, I thought it really meant people leaping on apparently absurd experiences, armed with hard-core science and refuting/debunking them with fiery passion. Which I have no problems with, except if it's done to roast the poster rather than the post itself.


PS: I may be an open-minded sceptic, but what hypotheses do I swing towards? Re UFOs, I accept the scientific improbability of physical visitations from other worlds due to: the giant leaps and significant luck required for life to evolve into technically sophisticated sentient beings; the vastness and sheer density of the universe itself; plus the highly improbable likelihood of such visitations coinciding with our own lifetimes within that vastness.

The attendant numbers in these improbabilities must be more staggering than a TTSA spreadsheet.


I'm sure there are billions of planets whose science has far outweighed ours, but I suspect the above factors still make physical arrival within say the last hundred thousand years as remote a coincidence as a chicken managing to fry its own eggs - infinitely probable but disappointingly unlikely. Dammit.

Eg - Incredibly advanced ET craft entering our atmosphere to chug across New Mexico, only to ineptly crash like intergalactic Clouseaus, spreading debris attracting farmers with reward money in their eyes - but only AFTER they'd read about the 1947 flap in the wake of Arnold? I'm sorry, but NO. (I saw a C4 documentary that began by saying Brazel saw a UFO fall from the sky on 4th July - in reality three weeks after he discovered the wreckage on 14th June before 'Flying Discs' became a flap... well, that docu lasted 90 seconds before the big switch-off.)


So, what's left? Dimensions and portals. Vallee was an arrogant force of nature at the start of his career in the 60s, but much of that mocked work is heartily embraced today because (a) there's nowhere else to go; (b) we don't want to feel Ufology truly HAS wasted its time since time immemorial.

These are just my own thoughts. I've never actually read Vallee, and aside from some truly trashy UFO books as a kid, I haven't bought any other important (so to speak) High Strangeness books beyond the sceptical Jim Schnabel's classic trilogy ('Dark White', "Round In Circles', 'Remote Viewers'), 2005's 'Hunt For The Skinwalker' and... er... 2016's 'The Halt Perspective' (which doesn't warrant the 'sophisticated' label unfortunately).

So I'm very thinly read on the Ufology topic, except for ATS itself of course, which I only started reading this year. This voyage of discovery never ends!


PS: I've wondered about starting a thread analysing 'The Halt Perspective' - a ridiculously gigantic tome that warrants an in-depth review, not only for what it does right, but also for how it ultimately wholly shoots itself in the foot. I find Halt a curiously shifty-seeming chap - watch the EYES - but frustratingly maybe the only 100% reliable Rendlesham witness, but I still question the limits of that reliability. Heh, you can tell I'm chomping at the bit to get stuck in.

a reply to: ConfusedBrit

Welcome!!! (add mysterious music) tun tun tuunnnnn!!!

Jk! =] good to see you join up

a reply to: ConfusedBrit

Quite an intro, welcome, just wondering if that is now the minimum requirement to enter.

originally posted by: OhGoOn
a reply to: ConfusedBrit

Quite an intro, welcome, just wondering if that is now the minimum requirement to enter.

Congratulations on starting that crop-circles thread, by the way.


As I mentioned above, I thought about devoting a thread to Colonel Halt's book, but its few merits are drowned out by innumerable flaws, and it's frankly not deserving of much more attention.

A few days in, I'm already wondering how much more I can possibly contribute beyond recounting my personal experience.
For example, the sheer complexity of the mess Ufology finds itself in, is something I need to research further before commenting confidently on that area. All this is so relatively new to me that I do feel like a simpering newbie amateur at times, so I may just end up lurking again, more often than not.

And LEARNING. In other words, I don't feel I'm up to speed yet.

originally posted by: ConfusedBrit

A few days in, I'm already wondering how much more I can possibly contribute beyond recounting my personal experience.

For example, the sheer complexity of the mess Ufology finds itself in, is something I need to research further before commenting confidently on that area. All this is so relatively new to me that I do feel like a simpering newbie amateur at times, so I may just end up lurking again, more often than not.

And LEARNING.

In other words, I don't feel I'm up to speed yet.

Sure you are and you'll have a lot to offer. I think you've just reached the true jumping off point. The story behind modern ufo mythology and the IC is valuable for two reasons imo. One, we learn to stop wasting time on Roswell and, two, if tptb are hiding something we know it's probably not E.T. but maybe something to do with quantum realms. My apologies for butting in.

originally posted by: The GUT

originally posted by: ConfusedBrit

A few days in, I'm already wondering how much more I can possibly contribute beyond recounting my personal experience.

For example, the sheer complexity of the mess Ufology finds itself in, is something I need to research further before commenting confidently on that area. All this is so relatively new to me that I do feel like a simpering newbie amateur at times, so I may just end up lurking again, more often than not.

And LEARNING.

In other words, I don't feel I'm up to speed yet.

Sure you are and you'll have a lot to offer. I think you've just reached the true jumping off point. The story behind modern ufo mythology and the IC is valuable for two reasons imo. One, we learn to stop wasting time on Roswell and, two, if tptb are hiding something we know it's probably not E.T. but maybe something to do with quantum realms. My apologies for butting in.

Thanks, GUT. Encouraging points. That book recommendation will be a huge benefit, too.

I do suspect, though, that four months of lurking on ATS is hardly enough time to feel 'warmed up' after ignoring Ufology for most of Broadband's existence. Although I've dabbled in a few threads, I do feel that with regard to ongoing cases (eg Rendlesham and Green's dabbling with Burroughs; Skinwalker, TTSA etc) that most things have been already said at this late stage in the game as we await further info. Unless, of course, one is familiar with the complex historical politics of certain cases and organisations.

Take MM's Rendlesham thread, for example - your latest post was fascinating and covered areas where I really do need to dig deeper and educate myself. The Quantum theory really does seem the next revolutionary step in the field after 70 years of shadow-boxing, even if the same tired old 'celebrity' names from the past keep popping up EVERYWHERE. Not that I even recognised those names before this Spring. See what I mean about not feeling up the speed?

As a study of UFO cases gone by, ATS is an astounding achievement and my only port of call to assess Facts, due to the diligence and intelligence of ATS's researchers. I've digested most of the major cases since April 2018, which has helped me focus at last. In fact, your Christmas Roswell thread from a few years ago was the first topic I delved into deeply, and a prime example of how the breadth and knowledge of ATS members can sift through the 'wheat & chaff'. I chuckled at your opening salvo that summed up Roswell perfectly within a few sentences, although inevitably the thread spiraled into long For & Against discussions; by the end of it, I simply deferred to that opening post again which summarised all that really needed to be said in the simplest terms.

I'll certainly be chipping in when I feel 'qualified' (if that's the right word) enough, whilst continuing to brush up on some 15 years of ATS goodness that I've missed.

PS: Coming some 15 years late to the party, GUT, what would your reaction be to my starting a thread such as "Ufology - can we pinpoint WHY it isn't taken seriously?" - a situation that has always eluded me, but most likely a question raised many, many times on the forum already. I thought about doing research into other countries' public attitudes to the subject and fathom why some do not mock it, and if high levels of mockery are somehow unique to the English-speaking world, and asking "why?" on that front.

See what I mean, GUT? Perhaps it's an unfounded fear of repetition that causes me doubts? New members are joining all the time, and I assume some of them will have the same concerns. Perhaps that's a topic in itself?

Then again, I can already feel myself loosening up again, so your helpful reply seems to have given me a good, useful shake.

a reply to: ConfusedBrit

As much as I dislike the disinformation and game-playing by the Green team et al, I'm probably in agreement with a few of that crowd that "Consciousness" is a big part of the puzzle. And that if we actually have been in contact through the years it is more likely in dealing with these intelligences that are certainly "alien" to ourselves just maybe they are much closer to home than the stars.

I do believe there's an outside chance that TTSA is building-up to some kind of reveal, some kind of...well...Disclosure. If so, I say the big secret is they're some sort of "extra-dimensional." I think it's much more likely, however, another IC operation of some sort and almost certainly nefarious on some level.

Science seems to have forgotten that it was born of philosophy. The great ancients knew that both were needed for understanding. Science is useful for comprehending nature and technologies and other stuffs, but it's pretty useless when it comes to paradox and consciousness. Of course we need philosophy--and even metaphysics--and just maybe our peeks into the physics-defying quantum brew is joining the modalities together again.

I like your idea, btw, for a thread and the added dimension of how different cultures react. And there is a a little research--or at least informed articles--out there about the cultural aspect. The acceptance and openness of the Brazilian peoples and the Brazilian government is an example that comes to mind. Lots of good stuff in your reply above and I look forward to more discussion.