Is Fire Retardant Dumbing us Down

originally posted by: howtonhawky

Fire retardants used in firefighting can be toxic to fish and wildlife as well as firefighters by releasing dioxins and furans when halogenated fire retardants are burned during fires, and drops within 300 feet of bodies of water are generally prohibited unless lives or property are directly threatened. Fire retardant - Wikipedia en.wikipedia.org...

I ask with all due respect for any non believers to simply admit that it is harmful to us and the eco system.

There are viable alternatives that are non toxic or at least much less non toxic that what we are using.

Here is one here...

Bentonite Toxicity. Bentonite is a ground naturally occurring clay. It is inorganic, non-toxic, non-irritating. It is not considered hazardous on skin contact (it is employed in cosmetics and skin products as a suspender). Bentonite Toxicity (hazard) - Digitalfire digitalfire.com...

Your trying to argue about chemicals and have no clue what your talking about. Bentonite is used as a gelling agent by itself it would have little effect on a fire. What they do is they add polyacrylamide with it creating a foam to put out fires. Environmentally this would be bad last thing you want to do is cover the landscape in foam. Also the little matter that polyacrylamide is made from units of acrylamide, a known neurotoxin. so when it breaks down in water you can end up killing wildlife be horrible deaths as well think of a dog dying of rabies.

Look you obviously are in over your head here phosphates are harmless to 99 percent of the animals on the planet. And worse its produced in nature everywhere. Where the problem comes in with phosphates they dont directly harm the fish. What they do is cause massive algae blooms this is why red tides occur near land. The increased algae growth removes all the oxygen from the water and the fish cant breath. This happens in streams as well phosphates kill by being good for plants an algae. Did you know you can die without phosphates?

Your body lives by using chemical processes and it seems you believe any chemical is harmful. With chemistry you can make something beneficial or lethal by just changing one ingredient. Heres a great example your body needs Iron problem is take to much and your dead a dose of over 50 mg will hospitalize you.

originally posted by: howtonhawky

originally posted by: SailorJerry

originally posted by: howtonhawky

originally posted by: CADpro
It must be really really...I mean REALLY important for some to be right no matter what the circumstances are. I've noticed this strange behavior across the spectrum of the many personas of this member.

Yea how about you post on topic.

I am interested in your take on the poison featured in the op instead of your fanboy club rants.

Its not toxic

End of, time to create another thread

It has gotton the best of you.

It would serve you well to read my post on the subject but since i have learned you are being effected i will just for you post the fact again.

Fire retardants used in firefighting can be toxic to fish and wildlife as well as firefighters by releasing dioxins and furans when halogenated fire retardants are burned during fires, and drops within 300 feet of bodies of water are generally prohibited unless lives or property are directly threatened. Fire retardant - Wikipedia en.wikipedia.org...

you just got served

Unserve this is talking about fire retardants used in homes. Typically bromide is used just so you know Foscheck does not contain bromide. Just about every post you make shows a lack of knowledge in chemistry i actually have to pick which ones to correct or id have 20 posts replying to you.

originally posted by: howtonhawky
Oh look! I was correct again.

The phosphorus is made by an explosives company.

en.wikipedia.org...

This is sickening on sooo many levels.

Not sure of your point white phosphorus is often used in munitions but has no fire retardant properties at all. In fact quite the opposite it will assist a chemical reaction. No fire retardant would ever include white phosphorus. By the way phosphates are needed for plants and animals to survive. Ready for the scary part with the current uses we have about a 100 year supply. Now we can make it but it wont be cheap so your going to see all food products increase in value.

originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: howtonhawky

originally posted by: SailorJerry

originally posted by: howtonhawky

originally posted by: CADpro
It must be really really...I mean REALLY important for some to be right no matter what the circumstances are. I've noticed this strange behavior across the spectrum of the many personas of this member.

Yea how about you post on topic.

I am interested in your take on the poison featured in the op instead of your fanboy club rants.

Its not toxic

End of, time to create another thread

It has gotton the best of you.

It would serve you well to read my post on the subject but since i have learned you are being effected i will just for you post the fact again.

Fire retardants used in firefighting can be toxic to fish and wildlife as well as firefighters by releasing dioxins and furans when halogenated fire retardants are burned during fires, and drops within 300 feet of bodies of water are generally prohibited unless lives or property are directly threatened. Fire retardant - Wikipedia en.wikipedia.org...

you just got served

Unserve this is talking about fire retardants used in homes. Typically bromide is used just so you know Foscheck does not contain bromide. Just about every post you make shows a lack of knowledge in chemistry i actually have to pick which ones to correct or id have 20 posts replying to you.

what the f are you talking about?

You gonna come in here injecting stuff that was never spoken of? No one ever said anything about retardant use in homes or bromide?

Perhaps you may want to get on the same page here. You may know chemistry but you are not picking up on what i am saying here.

Why do you choose to come in here and spin ?

originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: howtonhawky
Oh look! I was correct again.

The phosphorus is made by an explosives company.

en.wikipedia.org...

This is sickening on sooo many levels.

Not sure of your point white phosphorus is often used in munitions but has no fire retardant properties at all. In fact quite the opposite it will assist a chemical reaction. No fire retardant would ever include white phosphorus. By the way phosphates are needed for plants and animals to survive. Ready for the scary part with the current uses we have about a 100 year supply. Now we can make it but it wont be cheap so your going to see all food products increase in value.

LOL

The point is the manufacturer.

a reply to: dragonridr

Dude no one is suggesting using bentonite alone to fight fires.

It would and is already being used in place of toxic substances...

keepup

Why would you even insinuate that i would suggest to put undiluted bentonite on a fire.

The point would be to use it as they already are using it and just without the toxic chemicals.

Phoscheck uses chemicals at levels that is dangerous to wildlife,fish and humans. Proven by the epa but claims that it's benefits outweigh the damage. That is not true when we have other similar effective non toxic choices.

When introduced to fire it produces other harmful chemicals.

The company that makes phoscheck procures the substance from a manufacturer of explosives that otherwise had no use for the substance at the levels that phoscheck buys them because the phosperous used is not explosive.

In other words it is an industrial waste product being touted as beneficial to everything.

The claim is that simple water will not disperse as good as phoscheck but that is negated by the fact that bentonite is the substance that phoscheck uses to hold together the water and would be just as effective if used without the industrial waste.

It has been claimed that since it is a fertilizer it aids in regrowth but that is not relevant because if put on a fire it changes composition and is vaporized. Also negated by the fact that is not a very good fertilizer or else it the phosphorous would be sold as a fertilizer instead of a waste product from israel.

The stuff is not only bad for the environment is is unnecessary as a fire controller.

Someone mentioned earlier that you have multiple profiles ("handles" / accounts) here on ATS.

I can think of a couple members who have very similar argumentative styles to your own (like nearly identical). One member in particular comes to mind, especially with your constant questioning about who said exactly what, and allegations of other people putting words in your mouth.

From my perspective you are either intentionally trolling for an argument, or you have some sort of a mental condition which would seem to suggest psychiatric treatment may be helpful. This observation is not intended to be an insult, but rather a genuine observation which may help you. It is simply not healthy for one's ego to be completely unable to admit fault or error.

I wish you the best. This discussion has concluded (for me anyway).

Take care.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

You have a PM

Thank you !

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

Someone mentioned earlier that you have multiple profiles ("handles" / accounts) here on ATS.

Someone is threatened cause i was deadeyedick and started a new account howtonhawky?

Sounds like they have their own problems..

Since creating the howtonhawky i have not even once used deadeyedick profile nor have i ever been accused of such or asked about such


Sounds like you just want to change the topic away from the facts of the toxicity of phoscheck and make it personal about me.

As if any character flaws would make phoscheck safer or save your friend from the longterm effects of living or visiting a cabin that is covered in poison.

I do consider it a compliment that some believe i could change they way i write or think but i can not...what you see is what you get.

originally posted by: CADpro
a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

You have a PM

Thank you !

more fan boy crap having nothing to do with the op.

People are any of you aware that there are ways to look and see every account and where they are logged in from and on top of that one can not post using multiple accounts unless they have some special permission from admin.


I have no such permission.


So you lose a debate and revert to character assassinations?

Post facts not feelings


They are poisoning you and in return you hate on me???????

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

or you have some sort of a mental condition which would seem to suggest psychiatric treatment may be helpful. This observation is not intended to be an insult,

So i point out to you that phosphorous is poisonous and your defense is that water can kill you,i am mental and trolling mulitiple accounts.


No i am only showing care for fellow humans by pointing out that the phoscheck kills fish and wildlife when used and firefighters are in danger when they are near a drop.


You would rather resort to childish tactics while loosing a debate you try to lash out at me..

You people can stop focusing on the bouncing ball and face the facts!

Ammonium phosphate is the salt of ammonium and phosphate. It is a highly unstable compound with the formula (NH4)3PO4. Because of its instability, it is elusive and of no commercial value. A related "double salt", (NH4)3PO4.(NH4)2HPO4 is also recognized but is too unstable for practical use. Both triammonium salts evolve ammonia. In contrast to the fragile nature of the triammonium salts, diammonium phosphate (NH4)2HPO4 is a valuable material, mainly as a fertilizer. Also of value is monoammonium salt (NH4)H2PO4 which is also valued as a fertilizer. These two salts provide plants with fixed nitrogen and phosphorus.[2]

en.wikipedia.org...

Industrial waste product sold to the usa by an isreali company and being touted as being safe by your government.

It is not even a decent fertilizer!

It is industrial waste.

Bentonite and water would work just as well in dousing fires.

Bentonite is already a part of phoscheck that gives the firefighters the dispersion needed to hit their targets.

Once again clueless on chemistry. Your making claims and just flat out talking about the wrong chemicals. So ill make this simple foscheck os made from ammonium polyphosphate, diammonium phosphate, diammonium sulfate, monoammonium phosphate, attapulgus clay and guar gum. So your claim now is its made with industrial waste.

Ok first ammonium polyphosphate is not industrial waste as claimed in fact its very useful its chemical formula is [NH4PO3]n(OH)2. Notice entirely different than what you posted. You guys are throwing around chemical formulas and have no clue what they mean and think anything with a similar name is the same.

Do you know ammonium polyphosphate is used in your food bet you didn't did you? Its an emulsifier and used in everything from cereal to cupcakes .

Now looking at the ingredients there is nothing there that is poison or even harmful unless you were to injest pounds of it. Anything in high enough quantities can kill. But heres the problem its no where near that level.

Now if you want to look at the ingredients ill be happy to explain what it does and why its not poison.

a reply to: dragonridr

lolers

I am not buying your excuse that since they feed it to us in small quantities then it must not be a waste and it is good for us.

It is still industrial waste from making explosives and not safe for humans,wildlife or fish.

10% would be close to .75lb per gallon.

You would not be healthy if you inhaled that stuff during vaporization or if you drank it. It is not rocket science or any forbidden chemistry that if you put it in a river or lake and it kills fish then it is harmful for humans too.

You drink too much brondo bro.

They had a bunch of this stuff left over from making bombs so they decided to poison us with it instead of proper disposal.

Ammonia and phosphoric acid...yummy

240 Celsius and it gets real tasty for you consumers...

This stuff probably makes testosterone levels in men decrease.



Ammonium polyphosphate it's what's for dinner and 9 out of 10 ats members recommend it.

a reply to: howtonhawky

I advise any who wish to try to disprove the theories givin here to do so with facts and not feelings.

Provide a theory before ask anyone to look into it.

Perhaps you may want to answser the question of why we use fertilizer on fires when we could use something non toxic that works as well.

We don't

bombs are made with Fertilizer because its not a retardant but quite the opposite.

Why do you all take the stance that the current retardation is the only option. It is not.

Where do you get the impression "we" do?

Who is "we"?

Perhaps you could tell us where is the logic in releasing burnt fertilizer vapor into the air is a good idea?

Sure,

before anyone can attempt to you need explain where you are coming with these nonsense questions that just don't make sense.

i am asking you to quit being divisive. I feel it would be childish to report you but it needs to be done. Take a break you are triggered.

To use your logic what you posted to show its fertilizer proves its actually water they are dumping because 80% beats your 10%.

you are ignoring facts and trying to crap on the whole discussion by not admitting that the retardant contains fertilizer

No one ever said it didn't


you were saying its fertilizer being sprayed on fires when what you have shown that its not.

instead you try to claim that the constituents found in the substance is not fertilizer

I see you suffer from the same delusions a few other posters do.


You make things up about what others say when everything is posted and there for all to see.

Now that we established that foscheck is 10% fertilizer

Yes

but 1 just 1 post later we get this beuty

Foscheck is fertilizer Are you really gonna revert to verbal stupidity?

Classic, especially the 2nd part.

Are you gonna try to tell us now that fertilizer with water in it is not fertilizer?

The more water added to something the less chemically diluted it is and so depending on the amount of fertilizer and water added, it stops being fertilizer very quickly.

originally posted by: howtonhawky
a reply to: dragonridr

lolers

I am not buying your excuse that since they feed it to us in small quantities then it must not be a waste and it is good for us.

It is still industrial waste from making explosives and not safe for humans,wildlife or fish.

10% would be close to .75lb per gallon.

You would not be healthy if you inhaled that stuff during vaporization or if you drank it. It is not rocket science or any forbidden chemistry that if you put it in a river or lake and it kills fish then it is harmful for humans too.

You drink too much brondo bro.

They had a bunch of this stuff left over from making bombs so they decided to poison us with it instead of proper disposal.

Id love to hear how you think ammonium polyphosphate Is somehow left over FROM making explosives. The process actually requires ill give you a clue its created it what us called a spray reactor. Just like a nuclear reactor you spray chemicals into a chamber turn up the heat and let the chemical reactions begin. To make ammonium polyphosphate first step is to make ammonium phosphate.

How you ask well the process utilizes a spray reactor in which phosphoric acid is reacted with ammonia to form ammonium phosphate. The ammoniation is conducted under conditions which form sufficient ammonium polyphosphate to stabilize the solution in the liquid condition.when they combine we have ammonium polyphosphate. Now in this process nothing is waste material from anything else in fact quite the opisit this is done to create the desired effect.

Your lack of knowledge even basic knowledge in chemistry has led you down the wrong path. You have repeatedly shown you don't understand chemistry yet seem to be making wild outlandish claims.

Ill try this again i posted the ingredients we can discuss any of them if you like. I educate students daily so im used to having to explain things to people. But the first step in learning is to realize you don't know everything. I appears some website or group has spoon fed you wrong information.