A drug called 'monkey dust' which causes people to eat faces and jump from buildings is spreading

originally posted by: sapien82
a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

aye because you ban alcohol then folk really take matters into their own hands !

That'll never happen lol, imagine MP's voting to ban their after meetings double Scotch at the Commons bars. Curious how MP's fail to classify Ethanol as the recreational drug it is. It genuinely fits all the criteria of the Psychoactive Substances Act 2016 which bans pretty much everything else.

Honestly laws , really need a kick up the arse , our whole way of looking at things is very wrong !

Agreed.
The hypocrisy of MP's who use ethanol recreationally, yet vote against citizens using cannabis recreationally, is absolutely priceless though.
I'm not personally much invested in the issue, I actually forget things are still illegal in my parts. Devon and Cornwall police don't care about any personal amounts (of anything) anymore, they usually just confiscate. Heck they announced a year or so ago they won't even investigate petrol station drive-offs anymore unless there is clear evidence of fraud like fake number plates. Petrol stations have to go through the civil court now because of the savage cuts in our already overstretched rural police, they are too busy dealing with normal crime like violence etc.
I love this new world of never seeing cops or even PCSO's since most of them got laid off lol, communities have become much stronger dealing with problems 'in-house', no calling cops, and no witnesses even if they turned up lol.

So long as my corner of England stays the same as it is I'm happy enough...the UK I see on TV news and tabloids is not one I recognise in these parts...and people in these parts will fight passionately to keep it that way.
To sum up our cops, if they get a complaint about an illegal outdoor party (rave) they do a token 'welfare check' so it's on their records, knowing everyone there is using MDMA or Cocaine, then they drive back to civilisation in the desperate battle dealing with drunks in bar/clubland.
They have reasonable suspicion to search people for drugs, but they don't, they are happy that the people dancing are happy with no violence etc, so tackling drunken violence in clubland is the priority.

Sensible policing down here

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

Well the Policing is rather less sensible in other areas to be sure.

Police removed a chap from a public bus(First Bus) a few weeks back for simply wearing a Rangers top.

No aggravation, no foul language, no consumption of alcohol or breach of the peace, and the Suns splitting the sky.

Simply the fact that the driver took umbrage to the man's choice of clobber and had Police remove him from his bus.

Pulled the guy off and put him in cuffs whilst the rest of the bus profusely protested and witnessed the Police assault the chap.

All in a days work for some bastards.

a reply to: andy06shake
Bloody 'ell, do they Taser people for a 'teenth of smoke as well?!
It's an effort to get arrested here, honestly, Devon & Cornwall is one of the least funded police areas in the UK, and the largest geographical constabulary in England. Their budget is based on winter population so when the millions of tourists are here in the summer they struggle badly with 'real' crime.
Just trying to control the cities of Plymouth and Exeter is difficult enough for them, they don't give a toss about minor crap like personal possession, certainly not when out of our 'major' population centres.
I like it that way, reckon I'd hate seeing cops everywhere like when I visit cities out of my region.

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

Well funny story, or not as the case may be.

I was on my way to pick up the kids from school a few years back, walking along minding my own beeswax, still around a mile and a half away from the place, earbuds in music blaring.

When a cop car mounts the pavement in front of me, 2 overzealous little piggies charge out the vehicle and proceed to fling me against a wall. Turns out they had witnessed me lighting a spliff and decided i was a danger to the public or some bull crap.

Completely searched me, warrant checked me, asked me where i had been, where i was going, was i lying, was i out casing houses, How many pairs of trousers did i have on which was a new one to me. LoL

And then goaded me into an admission that it was indeed a cannabis joint i had lit by way of threatening to gaol me in their cells for a night and miss picking up my kids unless i accepted there fixed penalty £80 fine.

Now granted i was indeed in breach of the law by smoking but i certainly was not out casing anything nor a danger to anyone. And the amount in only one joint is negligible, certainly not anywhere near enough to be prosecuted for possessing.

Long story short, they have not got there £80 and not lightly to be getting it nether, i wrote a letter to the procurator fiscal refusing to pay the fine and told them to take me to court if they were not happy, last i ever herd. LoL

a reply to: andy06shake
Good result writing to the prosecutor
Do fixed penalties increase the income for Police Scotland? (Just my tinfoil hat mind wondering)
I'd actually laugh thinking a cop was joking if one ever threatened to arrest me for personal possession. They don't care about it here, unless someone is smoking in a childrens playpark or by a school/similar. That's fair enough in my mind.

Nothing much would change here if pot is decriminalised, except the same people will sell it cheaper than the official taxed products. Same as smuggled tobacco and booze is half price cheaper even in corner shops now, the black market is pretty blatant in my parts.
...easy when you never see cops though, I like it that way.

a reply to: andy06shake

mate was it an on the spot fine ?

they had you pegged man they need to put a line on at the bookies !

My point about the differentiation between alcohol and other drugs was to illustrate why I think the others are slower to gain legal status.

Yes there are problems with alcohol, but there is no denying that the average person, drinking in moderation, will not have problems with it. The same can not be said for things such as c0ke etc.

Now, I do think that legalisation would, on balance, be beneficial for society.
people would be able to buy e's and know they were of a certain purity etc. Our jails would be less full, and if dealing without a licence remains a criminal offence, then it would go some way to stopping the growth in smuggled, untaxed product. (There would be some still, but considering the risks, it wouldn't be a huge difference in price between official and black market stuff, as long as the government is a bit sensible).

As to the taste of beer, I think it is the brewing process or the method of extracting the ethanol that leaves the manky taste. It most certainly is not the ethanol itself. I have drunk a ton of the stuff and the only ones I would reccomend are Bavaria Wit 0% and Cobra Zero, both chilled to a fraction above freezing point.

originally posted by: SprocketUK
Yes there are problems with alcohol.

Yes, In the UK there are estimated 1.1 million hospital admissions related to alcohol consumption where an alcohol-related disease, injury or condition was the primary reason for hospital admission or a secondary diagnosis each year. There are also 339,000 admissions for conditions directly caused by alcohol, 9000 deaths, 800,000 alcohol related violent crimes (52% of all violent crime in the country each year), and 58% of all domestic violence crimes.
Yet this drug is legal.

Decriminalisation of any drugs will not affect the black market in my opinion at all if the government tax it the same as booze and tobacco products currently.

50g of Golden Virginia tobacco at Tesco's = £21.00
50g of Golden Virginia from 'the guy at the pub' or local corner shops under the counter = £11.00

70cl of cheapest Tesco vodka = £11.00
70cl black market, smuggled from Eastern Europe = £6.00

The government will never undercut the blackmarket because of taxes and other operational costs.
Granted, you may find the government will deal a more pure product, but if they are selling say coke at £100 per g, but the black market is offering a 40% pure product which does the job for a night out then people will vote with their wallets.
You may disagree, but the situation currently with illegally sold products such as booze and tobacco overwhelmingly supports my argument that government taxed products will not compete well in the overall market.

Even if cannabis was cleared for medical use, all that will happen is hundreds of thousands of 'sick' people will get their prescription and sell it on. That already happens with most prescription drugs, and it is a huge market.
I know loads of elderly people who sell drugs to boost their pensions. If I need something, it would be quicker for me to get it from the 'silver dealers' than getting an appointment from my GP.
I could walk out now and get anything from Oramorph, Tramadol, to Valium and Xanax, even antibiotics, in a few minutes. It is a massive illegal industry costing the NHS millions each year.

Nope, the black market is here to stay, and even if the government become the dealers, they will always be undercut by illegal tax free options which are cheaper.
Another issue is privacy. I would assume any 'legal' sales of recreational drugs would be recorded/linked to the purchaser at the point of sale by the 'government agent/franchisee', who would want that on any record with current prejudices about recreational drug use?

Oh, and a side issue, but it is a bit of a myth that most coke users are addicts who do it every day. All my adult life I've known lawyers, probation officers, trader bankers, and other professionals who use it only on the weekend. Heck, the richer the house where the party is then the more coke on offer for free to guests. I of course decline politely every time, but my point is that the image that coke-heads are all emaciated addicts selling their granny's TV for half a G, is misleading at best, and scaremongering at worse.

We should be more concerned about these sort of statements:

The British Medical Association suggests that between 60 and 70 percent of all murders were committed by those under the influence of alcohol.

If any drugs are to remain illegal then I'd ban alcohol as well because it absolutely fits the criteria of a class A drug.

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

Nope, the black market is here to stay,.....

Until we become an entirely cashless society, and we aren't that far away.

Small time dealers and the Black market will struggle to exist as we know it when that nightmare scenario becomes a reality, thankfully I think I'll be actually retired from everything by then.

ETA

If any drugs are to remain illegal then I'd ban alcohol

Look how well that experiment turned out in the USA!

Prohibition of anything doesn't work.

a reply to: Freeborn
I know people who are already transitioning to 'legal' records of sale regarding prohibited business. The only difference is they will pay taxes on the income. There will be an explosion in the 'service sector' with people running bogus 'self employed' (sole trader) businesses to cover the real source of the income.
Even in a totally cash free society it will be easy enough by electronic transactions to an overseas account. Anything less than 10 grand (single transactions) goes under the radar, and in any case, by then, enough criminal businesses will be offering digital off-shore money moving services so hiding cash away from the eyes of HMRC will be even easier than it is now.

...and as far as prohibition goes, it just shows how many addicted ethanol users there are out there if they are prepared to riot for access to their drug.
Purely on the wording of the Psychoactive Substances Act 2016, alcohol should be included due to it's direct affect on the central nervous system, never mind the terrible damage to society...but it's not, because ethanol users in power delude themselves that they are recreationally using just the same as someone who smokes pot.

EDIT
Cash has it's own issues to illegal traders as it is anyway...check out how full casino's are in the weekends approaching every time the government changes the design of £50 notes. You watch when the new plastic ones come out, casino's will be rammed with dirty money being exchanged for clean new ones. It's just a game to people in the game.

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

Speed, coke, H, it will always catch up with people, same as booze if you aren't a little bit careful, thing is, you can function after a pint, or a g and t. No way in hell you can drive after half a line or whatever.

a reply to: SprocketUK
You can function after 3 pints but you would fail a breath test, in fact over 70,000 people in Britain are caught drink driving each year. But that is a sidetrack issue, it is a separate criminal offence to drive while impared so driving under the influence of illegal drugs and using that as an argument to support criminalisation of other recreational drugs is a mute point.
Nobody should drive under the influence, be it a legal or illegal substance.

Now, present me an argument which shows that alcohol is not more or as damaging to society compared to say cannabis and I'm all ears. Right now though, we have a dangerous drug (ethanol) which is used recreationally in the UK and causes massive damage to society yet is on a pedestal as innocent as caffeine.
The lawmakers are absolute hypocrites when you look at the actual statistics and the intepretation of the Psychoactive Substances Act 2016 which alcohol very much fits the criteria for.

a reply to: sapien82

Yes, but that just amounts to signing there a piece of paper if you don't have money on you to be paid at a later date. Still though it's technically an admission of guilt to a degree.

So if the PF had been in bastard mode and really wanted there £80 they could have kept going and taken me to court.

Just lucky they saw sense really, simple attempt to criminalize the wrong people really and enter them into the system.

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

I've seen one pint put people over the limit before.

Banning alcohol through is about as realistic as banning tobacco products and all it would serve to achieve is to create another black/grey market economy with the criminal element at the helm.

Like someone else pointed out look how prohibition turned out in 1920s American?

You simply cannot fight supply and demand.

a reply to: andy06shake
Oh I agree completely, I'm just using ethanol as an example of the ridiculous and hypocritical controlled substance laws in the UK.
I also bang on about ethanol to remind the holier than thou drinkers who look down on people such as pot smokers that they are also recreational drug users just the same. 'Having a pint' is recreational drug use just sugar coated as something unassociated with drug use.
I feel it is an important point to make regarding the legislation of all drugs. Alcohol is a killer and causes more damage to society than any other drug yet it is legally sanctioned.
I await any argument to support criminalisation of say cannabis while permitting the sale of alcohol.
So far, nobody has provided anything to justify the current status quo...and frankly I don't think anyone can, they just pretend to make themselves feel better than someone who smokes pot for example.

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

Haven't really smoked weed for years - skunk = whitey's - but no angel.

I'd legalise almost everything, with very severe punishments if found to be contravening strict driving / working limits etc.

No-one likes a drink more than me.
I've drank in pubs regularly since I was 16 or so.
I've had my own security business running doors in pubs.
I've ran two of my own pubs in the past.
I currently do a bit of bar and door work for a very good friend of mine in his pub and when not working I'm in there most nights having a few pints and a bit of craic.

I regularly see the downside of alcohol abuse.
Its got worse over the last maybe ten years or so.
Strangely it seems to have coincided with the demise of the local pub culture etc - a topic for another time and place.

Like I said before; prohibition of anything doesn't work.

a reply to: Freeborn
Agreed, I'd decriminalise the lot and focus all police attention on the actions of people while using any intoxicating drug.
So violence, theft, prostitution (modern slavery), public order, whatever etc, would be targeted, but personal possesion and being under the influence but not committing any offence which interferes with other people's lives would be ignored.
It's pretty much how Devon & Cornwall police do it now anyway. They see it as the best use of their limited resources.
It is a waste of their time nicking people for a 'teenth or a G, heck they haven't got enough cells if they tried to crack down in my parts lol

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

Id have to disagree, the legalisation of cannabis in the US literally killed off the US / mexican cannabis trade

a Kilo of good weed went from 1500 a KG to 100 a KG over night !
it was something crazy like that , whihc literally ended the mexican cartels hold on cannabis exportation into the US.

That reduction in exportation , meant that less money was going to the cartels .

However its still coke that makes the money!

The thing that really irks me is that , so many people take coke , but never think of how they get it .

Its grown in the forest ,normally farmers are forced to grow it , or suffer !
People die growing it, manufacturing it , smuggling it , selling it , the drug is dangerous to take in large quantities , and
is extremely bad for your health.

People suffer enmass , just so you can snort some cut coc aine with benzocaine, lidocaine, or teething powder, or creatin
or whatever the hell its cut with, So you can shrink your penis , and become instantly sober and literally throw away the 100 quid you just spent getting absolutely steaming.
All that suffering , so you can blether pish to a stranger in a bathroom or kitchen for 6 hours after the club!

NAH !

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

To reiterate, I'm not against legalisation, merely pointing out that you can drink alcohol and still work in a way that you can't when stoned. Yes, you can stick to a couple of tokes, but you can't work in a factory or a mine while tripping. That's why I think alcohol got an easier ride, plus it's far, far easier to make.

originally posted by: sapien82
a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

Id have to disagree, the legalisation of cannabis in the US literally killed off the US / mexican cannabis trade

Hmm, most of the cannabis supplied wholesale in my region is grown locally. It is a massive cottage industry now since 9 plants or less means no jail time. I'd love to see the government compete against growers who use stolen electricity for the lights, with their operational costs and taxes on top. I refer you back to illegal tobacco and booze which is openly sold at half price compared to government sanctioned dealers (stores).

I agree about the tragedy of the coke/heroin supply line and trade though, all of that comes down our way from Liverpool gangs. They've run the south west supply line as long as I can remember.
Eastern Europeans are trying to get into it down here but most 'traders' trust the Scousers they have been dealing with for years instead - now is that an oxymoron or what?! lol