20 states take aim at 3D gun company, sue to get files off the Internet

originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: DJW001

How the eff do you figure ?

American firearm companies didn't exist at the time of the writing of the second.

Correct. The Second Amendment establishes state militias to prevent the need for a federal standing army. Gun manufacturers have twisted this into a right to sell guns to individuals who are not serving their community by participating in a militia. They have been brainwashing people into buying guns not out of need, but out of fear.

a reply to: SocratesJohnson

and want to track every 3-d printer.

That's an interesting point. I hadn't thought of that.

Color laser printers and copiers have been embedding an invisible watermark called a Machine Identification Code for many years. It allows output from those devices to be traced back to their source.

-dex

originally posted by: DJW001

originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: DJW001

How the eff do you figure ?

American firearm companies didn't exist at the time of the writing of the second.

Correct. The Second Amendment establishes state militias to prevent the need for a federal standing army. Gun manufacturers have twisted this into a right to sell guns to individuals who are not serving their community by participating in a militia. They have been brainwashing people into buying guns not out of need, but out of fear.

That is some grade A bull snip.

I wonder whose brainwashed.

originally posted by: WarPig1939

originally posted by: DexterRiley
a reply to: WarPig1939

That's a disturbing thought. Hopefully they'll be properly trained to use them.


-dex

I would hope I'm wrong though. Law enforcement have enough weapons to supply an army as it is.

Perhaps more defensive weapons would be useful. Some improvements on current body armor technology could help mitigate the damage done. I believe the US military is working on some defensive measures that begin administering wound management as soon as the soldier is injured.

-dex

a reply to: Pilgrum

any reasonably skilled tradesman could make something sturdier in his shed anyway.

Good point. Zip Guns have been around as long as there's been gun powder.

The main advantage of the 3D Liberator is that it's plastic. Makes it more difficult to detect using metal detectors.

-dex

a reply to: Ahabstar

As a side note, a 3D printed metal 1911 has been made and looks the same as any other 1911, using the same springs and magazines. Very expensive and time consuming to make, but it has been done. And plastic 3D printed rounds have been made and shoved into brass cartridge casings. So far no one has done a fully 3D printed round that I know of successfully and consistently. I have a couple ideas on it but don’t want melted plastic in my barrels.

Yep. Young technology is always much more expensive. But 3D printing metal has a lot of applications beyond just making guns. So, entrepreneurs in the free market will find a way to make it more affordable. That's one of the main reasons that 3D plastic printing is so cheap now. For about $300.00 you can buy a setup that cost several thousand dollars a few years ago.

So 20 states, visit the beach and pound some more sand.

I got a nice chuckle out of that.


-dex

a reply to: neo96

Since the invention of the cnc mill.

That's how Defense Distributed actually makes their money. They just give these 3D CAD files away for free.

Wilson told Ars that these days he's making money selling Ghost Gunners—milling devices designed to turn 80-percent lower receivers into functional and untraceable weapons.

"The margins there are enough to support an entirely annexed software company."

SOURCE

-dex

originally posted by: TinySickTears
I'm so torn on these issues but in the end I think it should be available. I have the prints. I grabbed them way back when. I have not looked at them and have no interest in printing any.

Sure I'm not the only one.

It is a bit of a sticky issue. Especially as these 3D printing devices become even more mainstream. But, somebody inevitably would have designed it and published the data files. Even if it were completely illegal.

There are definitely some people who shouldn't have access to firearms. But, a determined individual can easily source a firearm if they want to; even without making their own.

-dex

I see these states trying to make take a first amendment right and claim its really Second Amendment that they can ban.

I believe the Supreme Court would rule this is a first amendment case not unlike manuals for making home made explosives.

mic.com...

This is a personal liberty issue that once again government can’t stand the fact that free people can arm and defend themselves. I would love to just once see government put the rights of their constituents ahead of their blatant need to control our lives.

originally posted by: ANNED
I see these states trying to make take a first amendment right and claim its really Second Amendment that they can ban.

I believe the Supreme Court would rule this is a first amendment case not unlike manuals for making home made explosives.

mic.com...

Thanks for the link.

Apparently Congress did pass some legislation prohibiting people from distributing information pertaining to building bombs:
Cornell Law School

(B) to teach or demonstrate to any person the making or use of an explosive, a destructive device, or a weapon of mass destruction, or to distribute to any person, by any means, information pertaining to, in whole or in part, the manufacture or use of an explosive, destructive device, or weapon of mass destruction, knowing that such person intends to use the teaching, demonstration, or information for, or in furtherance of, an activity that constitutes a Federal crime of violence.

emphasis mine

It appears to me that as long as the publisher has no knowledge of the recipients intent, it should not be illegal. Otherwise I doubt this would hold up to legal scrutiny under the First Amendment.

-dex

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: DexterRiley

Small arms manufacturers like Remington will never allow this. The Second Amendment is about their unfettered right to make money by selling firearms, not your right to self defense.

I can imagine some special interest groups and lobbyists being silently funded by small arms manufacturers, and other interested parties, to limit this technology as much as possible. Even if they were unsuccessful at limiting access to the data files, they make take aim at the equipment and raw materials.

-dex

We should not allow 3D guns instructions to be released. 3D guns are not good for society, I would stick with the serial number system we now are using to track guns in this country. A kid could print a gun without his parents knowledge and use it to shoot a kid he does not like. Bad news, I think some of our gun laws are a little too loose already but do not support someone who wants to restrict our regular gun ownership by people who are not a problem. Precedence is an evil thing that is abused.

3D guns are a new thing, they can be banned. We do not need them. I would tend to believe having an untraceable gun is a bad thing.

a reply to: rickymouse

I respect your opinion, but I think liberty trumps safety.

originally posted by: rickymouse
We should not allow 3D guns instructions to be released. 3D guns are not good for society, I would stick with the serial number system we now are using to track guns in this country. A kid could print a gun without his parents knowledge and use it to shoot a kid he does not like. Bad news, I think some of our gun laws are a little too loose already but do not support someone who wants to restrict our regular gun ownership by people who are not a problem. Precedence is an evil thing that is abused.

3D guns are a new thing, they can be banned. We do not need them. I would tend to believe having an untraceable gun is a bad thing.

You realize there's easy ways around serial numbers right?

3D guns are a new thing, but homemade guns are not. Wanna know why nobody uses them? They're unreliable and dangerous to the user, just as these plastic 3D guns are. Criminals will overwhelmingly still want to get their hands on a real gun. That includes mass shooters. They want to create as many casualties as possible, and they tend to do lots of research. Their research is quickly going to lead them to the information that a 3D printed gun isn't the way to go. And they're not concerned about traceability.

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: DexterRiley

Small arms manufacturers like Remington will never allow this. The Second Amendment is about their unfettered right to make money by selling firearms, not your right to self defense.

It takes an incredible amount of brainwashing by anti-gun extremists to believe this kind of crap.

originally posted by: rickymouse
We should not allow 3D guns instructions to be released. 3D guns are not good for society, I would stick with the serial number system we now are using to track guns in this country. A kid could print a gun without his parents knowledge and use it to shoot a kid he does not like. Bad news, I think some of our gun laws are a little too loose already but do not support someone who wants to restrict our regular gun ownership by people who are not a problem. Precedence is an evil thing that is abused.

3D guns are a new thing, they can be banned. We do not need them. I would tend to believe having an untraceable gun is a bad thing.

just wondering ... what stops kids from shooting eatchother now is the hardware store off limits and no kid ever has acsess to a lighter did we remove every rock and pipe from earth and no one told me maby we should ask how kids got the ammo not what way they made saied ammo go off since last i checked you have to be of age to buy ammo

you can ban them all u want but just like the zip gun its just to easy its not making drugs you could make one in shop class at school its just a device that strikes a cartrage not complex

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: DexterRiley

Small arms manufacturers like Remington will never allow this. The Second Amendment is about their unfettered right to make money by selling firearms, not your right to self defense.

Just when I thought I've seen all the stupid a person could handle, you come along and say, "Hold my beer".

originally posted by: Metallicus
a reply to: rickymouse

I respect your opinion, but I think liberty trumps safety.

I like guns, I belonged to a gun club for many years. But I prefer guns that are accurate and last a long time if you take care of them. I wouldn't even want to shoot one of those 3D guns. I can buy a gun though, I have a clear record as far as owning a gun. I am not an Ex-con and I can register a handgun. I can get a concealed weapons permit if I desired.

I should actually get the concealed weapon permit since I do go out blueberry, Raspberry, and blackberry picking a lot and I do not like to intimidate others by open carrying. But I cannot justify the cost of the permit, I could actually buy the berries for the price of the permit.

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: rickymouse
We should not allow 3D guns instructions to be released. 3D guns are not good for society, I would stick with the serial number system we now are using to track guns in this country. A kid could print a gun without his parents knowledge and use it to shoot a kid he does not like. Bad news, I think some of our gun laws are a little too loose already but do not support someone who wants to restrict our regular gun ownership by people who are not a problem. Precedence is an evil thing that is abused.

3D guns are a new thing, they can be banned. We do not need them. I would tend to believe having an untraceable gun is a bad thing.

You realize there's easy ways around serial numbers right?

3D guns are a new thing, but homemade guns are not. Wanna know why nobody uses them? They're unreliable and dangerous to the user, just as these plastic 3D guns are. Criminals will overwhelmingly still want to get their hands on a real gun. That includes mass shooters. They want to create as many casualties as possible, and they tend to do lots of research. Their research is quickly going to lead them to the information that a 3D printed gun isn't the way to go. And they're not concerned about traceability.

I am not even interested in shooting a gun like that. I like guns that are well machined and accurate. I do not buy cheap quality guns because they often are not accurate and they can have problems with jamming.