Jeremy Corbyn and the "Working Definition of Antisemitism"

a reply to: gortex

I did watch the video. All that it proves is some level of involvement in a cross party group called Friends of Israel by an Israeli agent. That does not take away the apparently ingrained anti-Semitism in the Labour Party. It seems to me that you are trying to distract from the problem in hand by trying to make out that the accusations of anti-Semitism is just a conspiracy i.e. not true. It ain't. It's true by publicly revealed actions.

Part Three

I have a problem with the arrogation of the mantle of Judaism by the Zionists. I think they have served the Jews very poorly in the past, practically from the beginning of the Zionist movement, and continue to serve the Jews very poorly.

I am at a loss to account for the exhalted position they occupy in the minds of so many Jews. They are a ruthless group of people, in their leadership. I have read that they were to some extent totalitarian minded and wanted to emulate the Nazis in setting up a totalitarian state in the Jewish homeland. It seems that there was a faction that wanted to do this.

My understanding is that this was prior to WW2 and its horrors, when all sorts of crackpot political ideas were floating around.

I don't think most Jews would approve of the Zionists if they knew the truth of their history and this goes to the heart of the current effort to limit what can actually be said about the Jews, in polite society, and sometimes even by law.

I think that in the guise of combatting antisemitism a campaign is going on to combat anti-Zionism, and further, to give primacy, indeed to give Judaism itself, to Zionism.

I don't think Zionism can withstand careful scrutiny and the Zionists know it, hence this effort to limit what can actually be said about them and, often, to demonize anyone who merely wants to air an opinion that isn't laudatory.

They are like a bus driver that has crashed the bus repeatedly, but continues to force himself, at pistol point figuratively, (Hysteria is often the real weapon being deployed.) back into the driver's seat.

They are by no means the only political entity in the world doing this, but they are, I believe, involved in the subject matter of this thread, which is the "working definition of antisemitism".

Veteran labour MP Frank Field has resigned the Labour whip saying that the Labour leadership "is becoming a force for anti-Semitism in British politics" and generally having a go at the nastiness behind JC and his ilk:

BBC News: Frank Field Resigns

I just wonder how long can Corbyn hang on for now?

a reply to: oldcarpy

Frank Field; one of the few current politicians of conviction.
That he has survived so long in politics with his integrity intact just shows how much of a giant of a man he is.....and damning condemnation of Corbyn and his cronies that are ripping the soul out of The Labour Party.

a reply to: Freeborn

I wasn't aware of him before and nevertheless, the antisemitism crap is an illusion, this country is so stupid it can't even make the distinction between valid criticism and racism

a reply to: Zcustosmorum

Any criticism is partisan and divisive.

Any criticism of specific racial groups for any reason, valid or not, is racism.

Welcome to Generation Snowflake, can't go around upsetting people by being honest and / or having a reasoned and considered opinion.

a reply to: Freeborn

Specially when there's payments and profits to be made

What I find disgusting is that Frank Field, who has a majority vote of more than 25,000, faces de-selection by a small band of Corbynistas in his local party. How is that democratic? How can a small bunch of militant Trots outweigh the votes of thousands of voters?

It seems that Labour has become the nasty party. It is a national tragedy that HM's Opposition has descended to the level of Student Union type politics. We need a strong and effective opposition led by someone who can actually lead and get things done, and JC ain't it.

a reply to: oldcarpy

Its absolutely appalling.

Frank Field is a politician who was more than capable of holding high office in his prime.
His differences with Blair prevented him from achieving those heights.

He is much respected by politicians of all party's, political correspondents and most importantly voters in his constituency.
He currently has a majority of over 25,000.

For him to resign the Labour whip and to publicly criticise the Labour Party and Corbyn in such a manner just shows how bad things have become in The Labour Party.

Theresa May is possibly the most incompetent leader this country has had - certainly in my time.
The country has been rudderless since she replaced Cameron.

If we had an opposition with any level of credibility then the Tories would be very much on their back foot and we possibly could be looking at a new government.

But they are ineffective and unelectable in the eyes of the electorate.
They are consumed with petty arguments, they have a fear of speaking the truth and speaking up for the British people who they are supposed to represent.
The PC Brigade have a vice like grip on their policy making and they have absolutely nothing in common with a white, working class, council estate lad like me from a northern former industrial town.
They seem obsessed with appeasing the social justice warrior, smug middle class 'intelligentsia', 'I know what's best for you' types that are as removed from me as the Tory elite.

Dennis Skinner is another Labour politician I have respect for.
Like Field I don't agree with all of his politics and views but they are politicians of conviction, are passionate and genuinely believe in what they say.
For Skinner to vote for The Tories and against Labour you know that there is something terribly, terribly wrong with The Labour Party.

a reply to: Freeborn


I agree with all you say. Frank Field is a rare thing indeed, a politician with principle, guts and integrity.

The Labour Party has been well and truly infiltrated by the hard left who are on the whole a nasty bunch. Mostly thanks to Milliband's stupid idea of letting folk vote for the leader by paying £3. You only have to look at the likes of Seamus Milne. These people have not a clue about ordinary working life.

Dennis Skinner is another rare thing. Like you, I don't agree with all of his views but he has honesty and integrity.

It seems that no one with an ounce of integrity will work in JC's shadow cabinet, it's full of lightweights and opportunistic nobodies.

We need a strong Opposition and we have not got one. Someone needs to come forward, challenge JC and get a grip on things. JC has spent his life on the backbenches, rebelling and protesting. He has never had a proper job and has no clue how to lead his party or actually get things done. It really is like Student Union politics which in my day was pretty dire.

Agree that May is hopeless. Sad times.

originally posted by: oldcarpy
What I find disgusting is that Frank Field, who has a majority vote of more than 25,000, faces de-selection by a small band of Corbynistas in his local party. How is that democratic? How can a small bunch of militant Trots outweigh the votes of thousands of voters?

It's the incumbent leader who sets the tone and the policy. It's the only way far-left candidates will get in via intimidation and de-selection. When it comes to the far-left it has sod all to do with democracy. Militant Labour is a worry and one of the reasons why Labour under Corbyn is unelectable.

This thread seems to have gone a bit quiet but as far as I can see the issue has not gone away, despite the recent NEC vote.

JC needs to get a grip and the party needs to deal with it's racists and anti-semites before the Police do. Instead, the Party seems more interested in taking disciplinary measures against MPs who speak out.

Sad how a once great party has descended into this mess and lurched so hard to the loony-left with all the bullying and nasty in fighting associated with the militant left - ie Momentum (which sounds like a stupid team name from The Apprentice).

The party either needs a new Leader who can shake out the militants or more moderates need to split away and leave JC to his Student Union politics. I can't see the former happening until JC really messes up.

Anti-semitism and fascism is what you can see going on in Spain's public demonstrations these days. All of it is spported by all EU-royals and governments and is designed to foment classical European anti-israel stance.

Notwithstanding ... the third temple of the Jews will be built in Jerusalem, with or without the EU-NATO anti-semite meddling.