CEOs vs Workers Town Hall

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
a reply to: Blaine91555

What percentage of employees at Walmart, or at any company can move up any significant amount per year?

Most people dont even get an annual wage increase enough to much offset the inflation rate.

Obviously the ones who do earn it.

People advance based on motivation, education and a willingness to go the extra mile.

Why would anyone not interested in working up to management stay with a place like that in the first place? Stocking shelves or banging away on a cash register should be reserved for the young and the retired.

The answers lie in education and realizing that even learning a trade can earn a person a very nice income. It does not lie in punishing success and rewarding failure. The world has given us many examples of what Bernie wants and it does not work.

a reply to: toysforadults

Another dirty little topic that no one wants to admit is a major problem is affirmative action and gender quotas which are compounded in their nastiness when they are used together to promote people who can't do the job. I've seen what can only be explained by this first hand in a fortune 100 company I was doing contract work for in their IT dept.

It was a pharmaceutical company and they were upgrading all of their desktops and laptops in all their locations and I was in charge of the new system rollout for a major computer manufacturer. The IT manager was maybe 30-35yrs old and a woman minority who hadn't been with the company for very long compared to the 3-4 other workers I met who had 15-25 years in the profession and with the company - these people seemed very knowledgeable but isolated themselves from the IT manager in their work room and you could tell they were very unhappy. The company probably scored "bonus points" because the manager was both a woman and minority in a managerial IT role.

The manager was in charge of coordinating the rollout on the company side, what to do with the old equipment, when to replace it, with what etc. After the second day when the pallets were full of old machines (still had hard drives with all company information, emails, accounting & finance info, employee bank info, credit cards, SSN's, health/medical files, research and development, sales, executive files, all emails, etc) and they were to be picked up by the reseller which was buying them. I asked if we were supposed to remove the hard drives or at least wipe them and I got a look of puzzlement b/c she didn't know what I was talking about. She had no idea that the data would remain on the machines. But this wasn't a big deal and I was reprimanded for bringing this issue up and making it known that it was very important. So I asked a person in accounting if it would be OK for someone outside to have access to all their files and they almost threw a fit - saying it was absolutely not alright or acceptable. I let it slip what was happening and even at their senior position they were told it wasn't an issue they could "deal with". I was thanked by the accounting & HR dept but the near 1,500 machines still left the building to a reseller with all their data on it. I never made a scene about this or even asked the manager in front of anyone else but I know she must have complained about me as that was the last job I had with the company even though I was always weeks ahead of deadline (which means major profit for the contracting company).

I can't imagine how this person got their job over any of the other IT workers I talked to and it was very apparent that she wasn't even technically inclined, so I choked it up to having been some kind of quota hire or at least someone who was on good terms with someone in power in the company.

a reply to: LogicalGraphitti

So then everyone can get to the executives table, because you did. Got it.

originally posted by: Blaine91555

People advance based on motivation, education and a willingness to go the extra mile.

Suppose everyone had a great attitude, and no matter how much snip rolls downhill and right over them, in perpetuity, they just perk up and grin and do jumping jacks on the way on in to work their snippy job. And then everyone gets to go up Up UP. The sky's the limit! Got it.

a reply to: DigginFoTroof

the work hard and get ahead world has been dead for a while there is a host of other variables that determine your ability to get ahead and your skill/ ability isn't even in the top 5

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: toysforadults
Not a big socialism fan myself but I'll be watching this in a few minutes. It starts in 2 minutes as I type this so probably live by the time I post.

Sen. Bernie Sanders has invited CEOs and workers from five major corporations — Amazon, Disney, McDonald's, Walmart and American Airlines — to hold a conversation on corporate power in America and how to move forward to create an economy that works for all people, not just a few at the top.

Not much to add other than I'm watching this.

It is simple... every man for themselves. You have to view yourself as a business and make moves like a business. This means constantly educating yourself and making changes that progress you in a career and life.

If you've made mistakes that have resulted in you not having much by way of career options, the first step is to admit this.

The economy is working... it is just too many people don't understand the rules of the game imho.

The problem is that it's not a game that is condusive to humanity as we observe it to be.

Some are able to mimic the souless corporations, become totally dedicated to materialism, and will will do whatever it takes to get the most money they can.
But it's a fools game. Money is nothing. It's an imaginary concept, that is merely used as a dangling carrot, to get the horses to pull the cart.
By becoming like the corps, and being dedicated to carrots, we lose our humanity.

Hostile work environements, people ratting each other out, being mean. Ego domains.
Good folks pushing their own personal limits, just to fit in to a corrupt, BS, non-humane system.
How is that enlightened?

What about the folks who are not able to push at max effort all of the time?
Folks that have some form of illness, need to care for family members, limitations, exhausted single parents, etc...?
Are they not also deserving of a decent living?

We are familiar with that 'run yourself like a buisness' argument, but it's a BS argument, because we are human.
Some of us are ego-based, some are not. We need a system that covers ALL of us.
Every endevour undertaken by man, should put humanity first. Not concepts like money.
Anything less, makes us less human.

a reply to: Nothin

Some are able to mimic the souless corporations, become totally dedicated to materialism, and will will do whatever it takes to get the most money they can. But it's a fools game. Money is nothing. It's an imaginary concept, that is merely used as a dangling carrot, to get the horses to pull the cart. By becoming like the corps, and being dedicated to carrots, we lose our humanity.

wonderful summation wow...

Hostile work environements, people ratting each other out, being mean. Ego domains.
Good folks pushing their own personal limits, just to fit in to a corrupt, BS, non-humane system.
How is that enlightened?

even better

Every endevour undertaken by man, should put humanity first. Not concepts like money.
Anything less, makes us less human.

This is why I think we need a new mythology

my·thol·o·gy
məˈTHäləjē/Submit
noun
1.
a collection of myths, especially one belonging to a particular religious or cultural tradition.

I'd love for anyone in the thread to simply define:

1) Fair profit margin. I notice Toysforadults has yet to do this after being asked several times in four pages of replies.

2) Fair wage. Again, we keep hearing 'fair wage" thrown around yet no one has defined it. Fair to whom? The worker, the company, or the consumer?

Let's do a little thought exercise. Let's say you show up to your barber one day and he no longer charges $25 for a men's hair cut & shave. Instead he says, I need a fair wage for my time. Therefore, I now charge $100.00 for the same haircut. Would you continue to use the same barber or go down the street to the other barber who continues to charge $25 for a men's hair cut and does a decent job?

a reply to: Edumakated

1) Fair profit margin. I notice Toysforadults has yet to do this after being asked several times in four pages of replies.

on page 2 I responded with

there is no upward limit on what a company should make, but it's morally wrong to put people in slavery

a fair profit margin is one that doesn't impoverish people who work for you while you make billions, that's fair

originally posted by: toysforadults
a reply to: Edumakated

1) Fair profit margin. I notice Toysforadults has yet to do this after being asked several times in four pages of replies.

on page 2 I responded with

there is no upward limit on what a company should make, but it's morally wrong to put people in slavery

a fair profit margin is one that doesn't impoverish people who work for you while you make billions, that's fair

That ain't answering the question.

How is paying a wage putting people in slavery? Last I checked, slaves didn't get paid and they damn sure didn't have a choice in working or not.

Again, be specific here. Is a fair profit margin 1%? 5%? 30% When you say "you make billions" who exactly are you referring to? Most companies who make billions are publicly owned meaning anyone can be an owner... any shareholder is owed a portion of that "billions".

If you are referring to people like Bezos, I don't even think he takes a salary. His wealth comes from his ownership of Amazon stock since he founded the company. Amazon has created tens of thousands of millionaires. I think many of the employees who are granted RSUs or buy amazon stock through their 401ks aren't complaining.

a reply to: Edumakated

I've answered your question, you obviously don't get my answer

Treating people right matters.

All these other games will play with ourselves are excuses for our selfish behavior. The numbers all the games we play to excuse our broken human behavior are just that.. Excuses.

Yea thats not the world we are choosing to live in. Its not the world that exist.

originally posted by: toysforadults
a reply to: Nothin

Some are able to mimic the souless corporations, become totally dedicated to materialism, and will will do whatever it takes to get the most money they can. But it's a fools game. Money is nothing. It's an imaginary concept, that is merely used as a dangling carrot, to get the horses to pull the cart. By becoming like the corps, and being dedicated to carrots, we lose our humanity.

wonderful summation wow...

Hostile work environements, people ratting each other out, being mean. Ego domains.
Good folks pushing their own personal limits, just to fit in to a corrupt, BS, non-humane system.
How is that enlightened?

even better

Every endevour undertaken by man, should put humanity first. Not concepts like money.
Anything less, makes us less human.

This is why I think we need a new mythology

my·thol·o·gy
məˈTHäləjē/Submit
noun
1.
a collection of myths, especially one belonging to a particular religious or cultural tradition.

Thanks. You are very kind and generous.

What would this mythology look like? Are we talking about a belief system?

a reply to: Edumakated

You didn't reply to my post, but came back with your money-talk.
So you are not interested in discussing our human condition, buy only the money angle?
The OP is about: 'creating an economy that works for all people'.

Until we can ensure minimal conditions, for ALL: then who gives a damn about how much profit a souless corporation should make?

originally posted by: toysforadults
a reply to: DigginFoTroof

the work hard and get ahead world has been dead for a while there is a host of other variables that determine your ability to get ahead and your skill/ ability isn't even in the top 5

Lies!

Everyone gets to be a movie star / rockstar!!

My participation trophies tell me so!!!

a reply to: Nothin

What would this mythology look like? Are we talking about a belief system?

I've been contemplating this thread topic for a while now but I think I'll slap it together and answer your question in thread format

a reply to: toysforadults

Sounds good. Tangents happen.
Am not a big fan of belief systems though, without knowing where you are going.

Please keep us posted.
You're a good thread host.

a reply to: Nothin

appreciate it

it's not really about belief system persay, but about culture