UK 6th Generation Fighter Named - Tempest

originally posted by: stratsys-sws

originally posted by: Blackfinger
Is there anywhere in the Uk that does large scale airframe manufacturing anymore?Building scale demonstrators or UAV,s are one thing but building a large fighter is something the Uk hasnt done in a long time.Lot of good ideas though and knowing BAE they will pull it off.

Ermm really?

Warton - We kinda built 600+ Typhoons there and are currently building Hawks.

Salmesbury - We make the whole F-35 empennage plus hundreds of other components for F-35

Filton - Airbus wing manufacture and the full fit out of the A400M.

AugustaWestland - Now leonardo based in Yeovil, build worldclass helicopters every day.

It's something we do every day here, definitely not something "the UK hasn't done in a long time"

Cheers

Robbie

Yup, used to work at Warton and Salmesbury, there were a minimal six design to production lines on non-UAV tech on just those two sites divided between the various sheds,, and that didn't include the super secret techlines shed 5 etc.. as no idea what goes on in their. Airbus had a full line or amalgamation at Warton- have no idea of helicopter designs out a new one flew over Salmesbury to Warton/Barrow roughly 1hr ago. Something like a 60 yeer legacy between just those two - hence the monuments to Lightning and Canberra.

There were voluntary redundancies at both plants several years back (5000) but quicly filled with DESG graduate designers. The assembly tech in 2001 was mindblowing - nowadays is pure sci-fi/mindblowing based on cutting age 'and goes way over my head,but essentially the plane grows a bit like a synthetic foetus.

Nov - Dec 2001 very secretive 'plane' 'had to land' was surrounded in suspicion, very high security and close family would not reveal a clue apart from jokey tales

Boeing, lockhead martin and were always trying to recruit UK designers to solve their problems


EDIT: Not dig at the earlier poster asking a perfectly reasonable question - just my own experience as employee and part time defence journo so have advantage of seeing how it works on the inside of areas I've been in.

originally posted by: bastion


Nov - Dec 2001 very secretive 'plane' 'had to land' was surrounded in suspicion, very high security and close family would not reveal a clue apart from jokey tales

Boeing, lockhead martin and were always trying to recruit UK designers to solve their problems

Did it land at Warton?
Because you wrote 'plane'. Are you suggesting it was manned? A US toy?

a reply to: SpeedFanatic

Why do you only focus on aircraft from a certain time frame (late 80s to early 00s) and from the US? We've brought up several new fastmovers (US and Chinese) and you've never had any interest.

Being a "speed fanatic," it's...odd.

So, I gotta ask...why?

originally posted by: anzha
a reply to: SpeedFanatic

Why do you only focus on aircraft from a certain time frame (late 80s to early 00s) and from the US? We've brought up several new fastmovers (US and Chinese) and you've never had any interest.

Being a "speed fanatic," it's...odd.

So, I gotta ask...why?

He's pmed me befpre months ago but just seen it - there were a few 'everone on the office for security' protocalls. around Nov Dec 2001 but have no real details on what it was other than bing ribbed by cousind (booieng seconment) on the project -think Italians arrived too - was there for a week oe so user v. strict securi8ty protocal.

Incidents happened here - with US jets once/twice a month but was under locack and key.

note nonse of breasks nsa as ex defece journo with legal advice. Can't tell the full story as no one would fly again.

a reply to: [post=23920348]SpeedFanatic[/post

It was hinted plea, this was long before drones, was told it was big bacl with 'sppoky blue/e;ectrics/people I knew worijg in pLUS POST it were all nucleaer engineers/high end eectrictins/mechanics/computing type -as in super=genius level.


Far as I'm aware to rummur it came into difficulties over atlantic and had to land - but agin in interests of hionesty cannot confirm this - was just a rumour fromA a source = plus this was on the run up to Iraq war - we (BAe were f
giv3n a big meeting ot be way ready fo eary 2013 that week).

a reply to: bastion

He's pmed me befpre months ago

He's PMed me many, many times. However, that's not so much the issue, but rather I'm deeply curious why he is so fixated on certain fastmovers rather than all fastmovers.

They are always of a certain time frame.

They are always American.

Chinese or more recent American ones don't tickle his fancy at all.

Based on his reactions, I'd swear it was an assignment for a job.

I must be wrong, so I thought I'd ask.

a reply to: bastion

It was hinted plea, this was long before drones, was told it was big bacl with 'sppoky blue/e;ectrics/people I knew worijg in pLUS POST it were all nucleaer engineers/high end eectrictins/mechanics/computing type -as in super=genius level.

A few questions to aforementioned part of your post as there are some gramatical errors and I'm just not sure how read it correctly.

Are you saying that the plane was big and black?


"'sppoky blue/e;ectrics/people I knew worijg in pLUS POST it were all nucleaer engineers/high end eectrictins/mechanics/computing type -as in super=genius level. " - complately don't know how to read it, sorry. Could you re-write it?

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
a reply to: stratsys-sws

Am just saying the billions that they are going to be spend on this could be put to better use.

In my humble opinion it would suit us better to invest this cash in our collapsing public services.

Trident renewal, new aircraft carriers and now this.....

How about we build some new hospitals, prisons, schools then start looking to build weapons of war.

It's not pretty but we're the biggest arms dealer in the (UK sovereign soil signed agreements) - it keeps a lot of austerity at bay (even though mass is austerity is a con).

--

Biliions are opaid for free Defence, Engindeerings and Sience investmetns/ graduates, university coffers to procude the next best sientist who mny a capable of solving the root problem in the crises.


85 - 90% of new fighter compontetns have medical, technological and other uses.


- I say this as mazzive hippy who least Warton/Salmesbury for ethical reasons.


-- As or the other OP asying we have no real fighter asembler - therer's 12 assumbleys been running since 1996 in Warton ad Salmesdury alone (30 mile radiuous). There's areason faulty Us projects make emergency landings here because we get # fixed.

originally posted by: SpeedFanatic

originally posted by: bastion


Nov - Dec 2001 very secretive 'plane' 'had to land' was surrounded in suspicion, very high security and close family would not reveal a clue apart from jokey tales

Boeing, lockhead martin and were always trying to recruit UK designers to solve their problems

Did it land at Warton?
Because you wrote 'plane'. Are you suggesting it was manned? A US toy?

Honesly I have no clue whatsoever - we were taken to a big meting inside (pressumabky while lanced) - nevr saw it again, head jokey rumoursm was there fo four/five ays with Italians on it - then one day was out of tere with no mntion - couldbe undanced check before ME or some serious mafucntion (vaue memory of electric fault). = howver this s my specultartion from 20 years ao with minimal secury clearance.

originally posted by: SpeedFanatic
a reply to: bastion

It was hinted plea, this was long before drones, was told it was big bacl with 'sppoky blue/e;ectrics/people I knew worijg in pLUS POST it were all nucleaer engineers/high end eectrictins/mechanics/computing type -as in super=genius level.

A few questions to aforementioned part of your post as there are some gramatical errors and I'm just not sure how read it correctly.

Are you saying that the plane was big and black?


"'sppoky blue/e;ectrics/people I knew worijg in pLUS POST it were all nucleaer engineers/high end eectrictins/mechanics/computing type -as in super=genius level. " - complately don't know how to read it, sorry. Could you re-write it?

No problem, some is conjecture based on close family and working in industry (being on side since 5-6)

It was jokingly referred to black with blue it - but thinking it was my uncles taking the piss. They al has worked in nuclear plants, high end computing. millennium bug etc.. and more than happy to claim they were all hoax in 1998 ish.

They may wel have been joking about this one to brighten up lunchtime - or mayhave been a ajoke.

Can't say enithe way on the colous as neer say it, was not allowed within 500m of the secure shed t was. - Hower pretty ceartin it was Temptest.

Their prior eduation wasn't meant to be a hint as to what it may or may not be about - just hr level of expertise, precision. ener4gy and engineering they come from.

Then it wasn't on to making transformer planes that grow in testubese, repair themselves an a 'singlur jey' seperats into several mini plnes to take out a vast.

P.s - Evil cold, will make sense tomorrow - have full research from variouslocal base manages.

originally posted by: bastion
Can't say enithe way on the colous as neer say it, was not allowed within 500m of the secure shed t was. - Hower pretty ceartin it was Temptest.

So ok. To make it straight. Are you saying it was something black from US or BAE Tempest?
Why you mentioned BAE Tempest?
Are you saying the unknown bird was locked inside of the BAE Tempest shed(hangar) or are you saying something complately different?

Sorry, if that sounds stupid.

a reply to: stratsys-sws

looks familiar


*cough* black widow *cough*

sexy



i wonder if they will be working with the US as per SOP or if it will be 100 homegrown

a reply to: penroc3
Well its funny you should make the Black Widow reference and ask if it will be 100% homegrown. An article appeared in FG regarding Tokyo looking at options for the F-3 program. Two references that stood out were an alleged pitching of an airframe by NG that was based on the F-23 or at least its systems, and the other pointed out that Tokyo may be taking a look at the UK's Tempest program as it would appear that in layout at least it might fit the bill for the F-3. Given that LM (who's F-22 and hybrid offering are still very much seen as serious contenders), NG and Boeing have made offerings, its possible that the US may bless an arranged marriage of the Tempest and F-3 programs with strong backing from its providers. Interesting too is that Japan has a viable medium to high thrust engine coming online and of course RR's credentials dont need explaining. One of the sources quoted for comment made the point that it was in everyone's interest for allied nations like Japan, USA, Australia etc to collaborate on future fighter type programs. I could actually see something like this being pulled off. I would also add that Sweden will need to start looking beyond Gripen NG soon too, and would bring an interesting level of expertise to such a program.

a reply to: thebozeian


wonder what they have seen so far that would make them push a year back.


i hope the F23 gets a chance at the mass market, or at least parts of it.

a reply to: penroc3
Its probably in reality little more than a budgetary issue causing delay as well as the usual dithering by the Diet. However it could be that they are giving some of the contenders more time like LM to firm up proposals. It could be that they like what LM is offering but want the others to give more detail to squeeze a better deal technologically speaking. Maybe they are hoping to delay long enough for the UK to firm up its Tempest, or giving more time for details on third stream/VC engines or its own XF-9-1 to get on its feet? Who knows at this stage.

This quite an interesting analysis of the various programmes, including Tempest. Hope it adds to the discussion so far.

RUSI next gen combat aircraft and opens as a PDF

a reply to: stratsys-sws

That looks like more like a boat than a jet fighter, looks cool though.
What are the Specs for that plane? I don't see any visible armament on it.

At the end of the day that money could have been invested into something else like space exploration or repairing the damage of Brexit.

a reply to: bastion

You have a PM, bastion. Check this out, mate.

a reply to: SpaghettiHero

That's just a model, hence no visible armament, although I don't think you'd see armament on the production version either.

Cheers
Robbie

originally posted by: paraphi
This quite an interesting analysis of the various programmes, including Tempest. Hope it adds to the discussion so far.

RUSI next gen combat aircraft and opens as a PDF

Wonder if the US is hiding a 'fleet' of UAVs or just the capability to rapidly build on a proven flight tested design, jigs and assemblies ready for the call to war?