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Putin Meeting Lifts the Veil?
page: 13share:
a reply to: ErrorErrorError
Care to prove that?
TheRedneck
The Redneck and people alike him would be making threads about treason and impeachment.
Care to prove that?
TheRedneck
a reply to: TheRedneck
That appears to be Trump's objective.
Yeah, I guess you're right. So we should just dissolve NATO? It seems to be an awful lot of trouble...
That appears to be Trump's objective.
a reply to: Phoenix
Of course not. That was the whole concern. That's what this whole thread is about, and what was ignored while also desperately attempted to derail.
I'd bet good money right now, that as we speak, government officials and the DNC are hysterically trying to come up with some way... any way... to stop those 12 indictments. They tried to save face after opposing Trump so drastically on everything under the sun for 18 months, and in doing so outed themselves. Now there is no way out... Mueller pressed charges against 12 Russians under order of a Grand Jury. Those 12 Russians are now within his reach, so he has no choice but to continue with now-possible extradition efforts.
By doing so, he opens the door to Russian charges on the Deep State, and that with no way to cover up the investigation. Russian officials get to watch. We don't control Russia. So the truth will finally come out, and the swamp will drain, and Trump is out of the picture. He did what he was supposed to do: he got us access to the 12 Russians. Nothing else. Everything else is on Robert Mueller's shoulders.
This is just freakin' awesome, seeing justice done!
TheRedneck
What I'm hearing crickets on is (right,wrong,otherwise) is any addressing of the $400 million to Clinton brought forth by Putin.
Of course not. That was the whole concern. That's what this whole thread is about, and what was ignored while also desperately attempted to derail.
I'd bet good money right now, that as we speak, government officials and the DNC are hysterically trying to come up with some way... any way... to stop those 12 indictments. They tried to save face after opposing Trump so drastically on everything under the sun for 18 months, and in doing so outed themselves. Now there is no way out... Mueller pressed charges against 12 Russians under order of a Grand Jury. Those 12 Russians are now within his reach, so he has no choice but to continue with now-possible extradition efforts.
By doing so, he opens the door to Russian charges on the Deep State, and that with no way to cover up the investigation. Russian officials get to watch. We don't control Russia. So the truth will finally come out, and the swamp will drain, and Trump is out of the picture. He did what he was supposed to do: he got us access to the 12 Russians. Nothing else. Everything else is on Robert Mueller's shoulders.
This is just freakin' awesome, seeing justice done!
TheRedneck
originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: Whereismypassword
Red, how the hell has a fiercely anti Russian site a few years ago like this one all of a sudden trust Russia over everyone else?
So far as I know, ATS has never been an anti-Russian site... it has always been, and still is, an anti-ignorance site.
You seem to be confusing the two.
TheRedneck
You kidding me, how about the Putin is missing thread and other prolific posters who daily posted anti Russian threads 24/7
Russia Today even created an account here and they were booted as they are a voice of the Kremlin, that was about the time RT online had a UFO section and ATS was mentioned
Now Russia Today, Zerohedge and plenty of other Russian influenced sites are used as sources with Russia aiming to cause infighting in the USA
en.m.wikipedia.org...
These are the guys, hundreds of them paid to cause civil unrest in your country even faking a video of an American soldier shooting a Koran
fake Facebook profiles promoting BLM rallies on one side and far right rallies the other side, and the sad thing is Red Russia has won with their internet muck spreading
a reply to: Whereismypassword
You see those names beside each post? They're member names. Every single post is made by members. ATS does not make posts. Members do.
So it doesn't matter what you claim after those first words... if there was a bias, it came from the members making the posts. Not from ATS.
Oh, they just won something, all right. And we, those of us who still love our country more than we hate a man, did too.
I doubt it is what you think it is, though.
TheRedneck
You kidding me, how about...
You see those names beside each post? They're member names. Every single post is made by members. ATS does not make posts. Members do.
So it doesn't matter what you claim after those first words... if there was a bias, it came from the members making the posts. Not from ATS.
the sad thing is Red Russia has won with their internet muck spreading
Oh, they just won something, all right. And we, those of us who still love our country more than we hate a man, did too.
I doubt it is what you think it is, though.
TheRedneck
my 'fly-on-the-wall' ESP powers tell me that the 2 hour/Closed Door Meeting between Putin & Trump was all about Putin recognizing the decided
slithering of the USA MSM & Progressive-Fascist-Democrat Party of Elites toward NAZI Type weaponization of Government Agencies/Intel/Departments to
build a permanent cadre of Deep State- Bad Actors that are devoted to the destroying of the Constitution & Bill-of-Rights and replaced by an
Islamo-Fascist Regime...
Putin is aware his Russia will also soon be subject to Islamic-Jihad exploits as prompted by Globalists...
just as the USA is facing a Fascist oriented plot to overturn the Trump Administration from mostly the political arm of the Globalist puppetmasters of the DNC/Radical Left.
...and a bleak future of Islamic-Jihad from within the political apparatus led by the Muslim Brotherhood and Anarchy in the USA Civil sphere of Society by the 80K 'Syrian Refugees' admitted (into the American States) even as the ISIS forces 'disappeared' from the Syrian/Iraqi theatre of combat
both men...Putin & Trump are resolved to cripple the NWO/Globalist/deep-state actors in each man's homeland Purge's
Putin is aware his Russia will also soon be subject to Islamic-Jihad exploits as prompted by Globalists...
just as the USA is facing a Fascist oriented plot to overturn the Trump Administration from mostly the political arm of the Globalist puppetmasters of the DNC/Radical Left.
...and a bleak future of Islamic-Jihad from within the political apparatus led by the Muslim Brotherhood and Anarchy in the USA Civil sphere of Society by the 80K 'Syrian Refugees' admitted (into the American States) even as the ISIS forces 'disappeared' from the Syrian/Iraqi theatre of combat
both men...Putin & Trump are resolved to cripple the NWO/Globalist/deep-state actors in each man's homeland Purge's
edit on
th31153185048917012018 by St Udio because: into the USA
a reply to: TheRedneck
Trump is a blend of Jacksonian tendencies and General Douglas MacArthur's megalomania. Trump's summit with Putin was a obvious trap. The trap was laid by Putin, and the FBI. I will come back to the FBI in a moment. Like MacArthur, Trump's ego is his undoing, so is the (likelihood) of surrounding himself with yes men.
Trump is not or the last president to display poor foreign policy judgement or outright naivety. Both President's Carter and Obama oversaw failed foreign policies, although Carter never presided over a time where the existing international rules based order was threatened by state actors (Russia and China). In reality, Trump's summit with Putin could yield very little in terms of diplomatic breakthroughs. Russia's and the U.S. foreign policy interests will rarely overlap.
Strangely, Trump's theatrical gifts and sense of power weren't on display, he didn't keep Putin waiting for a hour and chat to reporters for half a hour before formally entering the summit. Like Reagan, Trump is a gift to any political advisor, who is apt at managing his boss's usage of stage craft.
Trump has well documented reasons to distrust the FBI, Department of Justice and even his own intel community. Only by rooting out the corrupt Hillary Clinton's cronies from civil service and law enforcement can Trump and the general public's confidence in the justice system and the intel community improve.
The above mentioned corruption played perfectly into the hands of the Russian plot to sew discord among their chief adversary, the USA. In effect, Trump's deranged detractors are puppets of Putin's strategy to destabilise his old Cold War enemy without firing a shot.
The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.
Trump is a blend of Jacksonian tendencies and General Douglas MacArthur's megalomania. Trump's summit with Putin was a obvious trap. The trap was laid by Putin, and the FBI. I will come back to the FBI in a moment. Like MacArthur, Trump's ego is his undoing, so is the (likelihood) of surrounding himself with yes men.
Trump is not or the last president to display poor foreign policy judgement or outright naivety. Both President's Carter and Obama oversaw failed foreign policies, although Carter never presided over a time where the existing international rules based order was threatened by state actors (Russia and China). In reality, Trump's summit with Putin could yield very little in terms of diplomatic breakthroughs. Russia's and the U.S. foreign policy interests will rarely overlap.
Strangely, Trump's theatrical gifts and sense of power weren't on display, he didn't keep Putin waiting for a hour and chat to reporters for half a hour before formally entering the summit. Like Reagan, Trump is a gift to any political advisor, who is apt at managing his boss's usage of stage craft.
Trump has well documented reasons to distrust the FBI, Department of Justice and even his own intel community. Only by rooting out the corrupt Hillary Clinton's cronies from civil service and law enforcement can Trump and the general public's confidence in the justice system and the intel community improve.
The above mentioned corruption played perfectly into the hands of the Russian plot to sew discord among their chief adversary, the USA. In effect, Trump's deranged detractors are puppets of Putin's strategy to destabilise his old Cold War enemy without firing a shot.
As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.
a reply to: xpert11
That, I must say, is a pretty accurate description of his personality IMO.
I agree that is strange for Trump. His body language, as well as Putin's, seemed to indicate some sort of private agreement, although I don't automatically ascribe that to the "nefaious" column.
Trump, while Putin was speaking, was staring off into space and nodding his head regularly at certain points Putin was making. That is a tell that he is analyzing Putin's comments to ensure compliance. It's clear he does not trust Putin to follow through on the agreements they made during the summit.
Putin was a bit more subdued and wordy than usual, and he did not make a lot of eye contact. That signifies some measure of deception. He usually presents an aura of superiority and total control, and his presentation this time seemed forced and artificial.
During Trump's speech, he was a little subdued from his normal self as well, although not to the same extent. He was also more careful than normal to follow the wording written in front of him. Overall, he showed a cautiousness that is not normal for him. Putin was stoic and stiff, almost as though he had finished his performance and now was forced to remain somewhere without a role to play while the show ran on. It was clear he would have preferred to be somewhere else.
All in all, that tells me that the meeting covered some topics that both men agreed on and that both were uncomfortable addressing. While we are not privy to what was said (and I do not fault anyone for that; this affected national security), the statement about reciprocal investigations between countries seems to me to be the most likely subject to elicit those responses. When Putin mentioned that the investigation cooperation had to be reciprocal, Trump was a statue... no emotion, no indication of what was in his head. He did, however, at one point whisper something to the effect of "yes" in agreement with the reciprocity.
I think both men are under similar attacks in their home countries, and that they both believe this coordination on investigations is the key to finally exposing the corruption surrounding them. They also know how dangerous a gambit this is, and are being extraordinarily careful to not make it into a major story-line for the press. So far that has worked well; the press seems loathe to comment on the implications of such bilateral cooperation.
TheRedneck
Trump is a blend of Jacksonian tendencies and General Douglas MacArthur's megalomania.
That, I must say, is a pretty accurate description of his personality IMO.
Strangely, Trump's theatrical gifts and sense of power weren't on display, he didn't keep Putin waiting for a hour and chat to reporters for half a hour before formally entering the summit.
I agree that is strange for Trump. His body language, as well as Putin's, seemed to indicate some sort of private agreement, although I don't automatically ascribe that to the "nefaious" column.
Trump, while Putin was speaking, was staring off into space and nodding his head regularly at certain points Putin was making. That is a tell that he is analyzing Putin's comments to ensure compliance. It's clear he does not trust Putin to follow through on the agreements they made during the summit.
Putin was a bit more subdued and wordy than usual, and he did not make a lot of eye contact. That signifies some measure of deception. He usually presents an aura of superiority and total control, and his presentation this time seemed forced and artificial.
During Trump's speech, he was a little subdued from his normal self as well, although not to the same extent. He was also more careful than normal to follow the wording written in front of him. Overall, he showed a cautiousness that is not normal for him. Putin was stoic and stiff, almost as though he had finished his performance and now was forced to remain somewhere without a role to play while the show ran on. It was clear he would have preferred to be somewhere else.
All in all, that tells me that the meeting covered some topics that both men agreed on and that both were uncomfortable addressing. While we are not privy to what was said (and I do not fault anyone for that; this affected national security), the statement about reciprocal investigations between countries seems to me to be the most likely subject to elicit those responses. When Putin mentioned that the investigation cooperation had to be reciprocal, Trump was a statue... no emotion, no indication of what was in his head. He did, however, at one point whisper something to the effect of "yes" in agreement with the reciprocity.
I think both men are under similar attacks in their home countries, and that they both believe this coordination on investigations is the key to finally exposing the corruption surrounding them. They also know how dangerous a gambit this is, and are being extraordinarily careful to not make it into a major story-line for the press. So far that has worked well; the press seems loathe to comment on the implications of such bilateral cooperation.
TheRedneck
a reply to: St Udio
as usual...another source has opened up to disclose the importance of the Putin-Trump, closed-door meeting & exchange of info to One-Another....
this snip comes from the Hal Turner Radio Show archive...
link: halturnerradioshow.com... ercepts-all-people-behind-fake-russia-collusion-false-flag-chemical-attacks-in-syria-sabotage-of-brexit-nefarious-clinton-activities-more
in my posts found elsewhere in ATS threads, I tend to use the term Conspiracy instead of the milder word Collusion… as explained in this presented snippit from the link.
as usual...another source has opened up to disclose the importance of the Putin-Trump, closed-door meeting & exchange of info to One-Another....
this snip comes from the Hal Turner Radio Show archive...
Closely Guarded Secret Work
Trusted elements inside the Trump Administration (who have been sworn to absolute secrecy, even ordered to flatly DENY the very existence of this material in order to maintain security) are being tasked to sort through, analyse and catalog all activities turned over by Russia; paying particular attention to any activity which resulted in violence, death or property damage, so as to be able to criminally prosecute ALL the Conspirators based on any end-result violence or property loss/damage. Whether the Conspirators intended such acts or not, the acts themselves "were a foreseeable consequence" of their efforts, thus making them ALL guilty.
Working from the top, these trusted elements inside the Trump Administration will take each effort and follow it down to the end results, documenting any acts of state-level violence, which thereby makes ALL participants in that entire effort subject to Conspiracy charges. Conspiracy is the likely charge as opposed to bringing Racketeer Influenced Corrupt Organization (RICO) cases, because RICO cases require predicate felonies which often had not occurred.
I asked if any of this evidence can actually be used in court since none of it was obtained via Warrant? I was told that ALL of it is admissible because the United States did not solicit the information and had no part in it being illegally obtained! Thus, there is no "fruit of a poison tree" to block admissibility!...
link: halturnerradioshow.com... ercepts-all-people-behind-fake-russia-collusion-false-flag-chemical-attacks-in-syria-sabotage-of-brexit-nefarious-clinton-activities-more
in my posts found elsewhere in ATS threads, I tend to use the term Conspiracy instead of the milder word Collusion… as explained in this presented snippit from the link.
a reply to: TheRedneck
Trump like MacArthur has seen his share of professional career high and lows. The Helsinki summit is the lowest point in Trump's presidency so far, he likely realised that Putin was never going to eat out of the palm his hand. Like MacArthur, Trump is unable to take responsibility and learn from his own mistakes. This is also compounded by his Jacksonian like way of holding grudges and anger at people and particular issues.
Putin has scored a free propaganda hit from the summit. We are yet to see the actual geopolitical/strategic fall out from Trump's embarrassingly weak display at the feet of Putin. The Trump admin's ongoing negotiations and policy aims with North Korea relied are at risk of failing all together. If the perception of Trump' s dealing with North Korea from a position of strength is removed, then so is the likelihood of any change to dangerous and risky status qua.
Trump's political, domestic and foreign policy advisors are either chosen "yes men" or they are frankly akin to the competence of Homer Simpson's role at the Springfield nuclear power plant. Trump's broad policy aims are not matched by any proposed policies or trade agreements. Domestically, this is reflected in how Trump has failed to follow in FDR's legislative foot steps. Effectively, FDR's white house sent proposed to bills to congress, this is opposed to Trump and perhaps Obama relying on members of Congress to author bills (major reforms).
Internationally, Trump's desire to economically weaken China's growing global dominance offers nothing to traditional trading partners, who for geoeconomic and geostrategic may want to wish to reduce their economic dependence on Chinese export markets. Notable, the absence of a replacement for the TPP , minus the clauses related to blatant corporate power grabs, has prevented the U.S. from exploiting historic economic opportunities.
As a dictator, Putin doesn't answer to genuine investigations or Russian public opinion, so he was able to place himself into a no lose situation. This was not hard to foresee unless one refuses to believe international relations is governed by state and non state actors various and often widely different interests. Current events can move faster or beyond the understanding of Trump and other western political leaders, like Obama and Carter before him, Trump may already face the global express train overtaking him.
The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.
Trump like MacArthur has seen his share of professional career high and lows. The Helsinki summit is the lowest point in Trump's presidency so far, he likely realised that Putin was never going to eat out of the palm his hand. Like MacArthur, Trump is unable to take responsibility and learn from his own mistakes. This is also compounded by his Jacksonian like way of holding grudges and anger at people and particular issues.
Putin has scored a free propaganda hit from the summit. We are yet to see the actual geopolitical/strategic fall out from Trump's embarrassingly weak display at the feet of Putin. The Trump admin's ongoing negotiations and policy aims with North Korea relied are at risk of failing all together. If the perception of Trump' s dealing with North Korea from a position of strength is removed, then so is the likelihood of any change to dangerous and risky status qua.
Trump's political, domestic and foreign policy advisors are either chosen "yes men" or they are frankly akin to the competence of Homer Simpson's role at the Springfield nuclear power plant. Trump's broad policy aims are not matched by any proposed policies or trade agreements. Domestically, this is reflected in how Trump has failed to follow in FDR's legislative foot steps. Effectively, FDR's white house sent proposed to bills to congress, this is opposed to Trump and perhaps Obama relying on members of Congress to author bills (major reforms).
Internationally, Trump's desire to economically weaken China's growing global dominance offers nothing to traditional trading partners, who for geoeconomic and geostrategic may want to wish to reduce their economic dependence on Chinese export markets. Notable, the absence of a replacement for the TPP , minus the clauses related to blatant corporate power grabs, has prevented the U.S. from exploiting historic economic opportunities.
As a dictator, Putin doesn't answer to genuine investigations or Russian public opinion, so he was able to place himself into a no lose situation. This was not hard to foresee unless one refuses to believe international relations is governed by state and non state actors various and often widely different interests. Current events can move faster or beyond the understanding of Trump and other western political leaders, like Obama and Carter before him, Trump may already face the global express train overtaking him.
As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.
a reply to: TheRedneck
Putin is not under attack. Anyone foolish enough to attack him is imprisoned or dies. He is the corruption. Do you think Trump is in a similar position?
I think both men are under similar attacks in their home countries, and that they both believe this coordination on investigations is the key to finally exposing the corruption surrounding them.
Putin is not under attack. Anyone foolish enough to attack him is imprisoned or dies. He is the corruption. Do you think Trump is in a similar position?
a reply to: DJW001
Nice way to twist words...
I really don't know what conditions exist in Russia and I don't think you do either. So everything you just posted is unsubstantiated opinion. It could very well be our own FBI/CIA that is worrying Putin. And it might not. But in either case, until proven otherwise, I stand by my impressions of the body language and my conclusions.
And I don't have to twist words around or demonize people to do so.
TheRedneck
Nice way to twist words...
I really don't know what conditions exist in Russia and I don't think you do either. So everything you just posted is unsubstantiated opinion. It could very well be our own FBI/CIA that is worrying Putin. And it might not. But in either case, until proven otherwise, I stand by my impressions of the body language and my conclusions.
And I don't have to twist words around or demonize people to do so.
TheRedneck
a reply to: TheRedneck
Putin's been in power 18 years in rigged elections and was groomed long before then in KGB handling and through his contacts has become the world's richest and most powerful man. He's a gangster not a democratically elected leader.
Freedom of expession, women's rights, right to assembly, freedom of association are banned; in the northern Causcus government kipnap/rendition, torture, ill-treatment, extra-judicial execution is widespread - i.e anyone who the government presumes is gay has broken glass bottles shoved up their arse.
Any anti-Putin protesters in Russia get arrested and sent to the harshest prisons in the world, any public criticism of him is practically suicidal. Police and neo-Nazi types beat them up and spraypaint pro-Putin grafitti in election times.
Journalists who question Putin are routinely assasinated. All but one newspaper is state owned, the non-state owned one is still state controlled.
Political rivals (the odd one or two brave/stupid enough to run against him in Russian rigged elections are usually killed or poisoned in attempted assasination - same goes for Eastern-European states who elected leaders who weren't Putin's rigged favourite candidate (outfall of colour revolutions).
38 critics of Putin have been murdered in unsolved cases from 2014 - 2016, most are millitary, journalists and Russian satellite state politicians who've been shot, poisoned or blown up.
There's been a huge increase since then with many assassinations internationally, especially in the UK (a few killed in London in days after Skirpal poisoning).
Also quite a number of Neo-nazi training camps with Russian military officials present where European neo-nazis undergo training in setting off truck bombs/nail bombs and various other terror attacks in Europe to try and sow more division. It's unclear from the INTERPOL footage if the commanders are directly involved in the training, just filmed on site'.
Putin's been in power 18 years in rigged elections and was groomed long before then in KGB handling and through his contacts has become the world's richest and most powerful man. He's a gangster not a democratically elected leader.
Freedom of expession, women's rights, right to assembly, freedom of association are banned; in the northern Causcus government kipnap/rendition, torture, ill-treatment, extra-judicial execution is widespread - i.e anyone who the government presumes is gay has broken glass bottles shoved up their arse.
Any anti-Putin protesters in Russia get arrested and sent to the harshest prisons in the world, any public criticism of him is practically suicidal. Police and neo-Nazi types beat them up and spraypaint pro-Putin grafitti in election times.
Journalists who question Putin are routinely assasinated. All but one newspaper is state owned, the non-state owned one is still state controlled.
Political rivals (the odd one or two brave/stupid enough to run against him in Russian rigged elections are usually killed or poisoned in attempted assasination - same goes for Eastern-European states who elected leaders who weren't Putin's rigged favourite candidate (outfall of colour revolutions).
38 critics of Putin have been murdered in unsolved cases from 2014 - 2016, most are millitary, journalists and Russian satellite state politicians who've been shot, poisoned or blown up.
There's been a huge increase since then with many assassinations internationally, especially in the UK (a few killed in London in days after Skirpal poisoning).
Also quite a number of Neo-nazi training camps with Russian military officials present where European neo-nazis undergo training in setting off truck bombs/nail bombs and various other terror attacks in Europe to try and sow more division. It's unclear from the INTERPOL footage if the commanders are directly involved in the training, just filmed on site'.
a reply to: TheRedneck
With respect I think you should learn more about Putin, the man your president seems to admire a lot
With respect I think you should learn more about Putin, the man your president seems to admire a lot
a reply to: Whereismypassword
I know a little about him, because my career in academia brought me into contact with Russian nationals. My advisor, one of my bosses during an internship, and several classmates are Russian. We've talked.
According to them, Putin is a thug who gets his way, mafia-style. Opinions on how well that has worked out for the country are mixed, as are opinions on whether they like him being in office. He does have some support; how much I have no way of knowing. The greatest dynamic is pride in Russia and a desire to become prosperous. Most have a distrust of America because of our actions when they were trying to convert to capitalism after the fall of the USSR.
That's what I know; now, what do you know, and how do you know it?
TheRedneck
I know a little about him, because my career in academia brought me into contact with Russian nationals. My advisor, one of my bosses during an internship, and several classmates are Russian. We've talked.
According to them, Putin is a thug who gets his way, mafia-style. Opinions on how well that has worked out for the country are mixed, as are opinions on whether they like him being in office. He does have some support; how much I have no way of knowing. The greatest dynamic is pride in Russia and a desire to become prosperous. Most have a distrust of America because of our actions when they were trying to convert to capitalism after the fall of the USSR.
That's what I know; now, what do you know, and how do you know it?
TheRedneck
originally posted by: Whereismypassword
a reply to: TheRedneck
With respect I think you should learn more about Putin, the man your president seems to admire a lot
Can you quote Trump stating said admiration? Because I've seen Trump bomb Russian assets, and assert sanctions that went further than the prior administration (and that act of Congress that was passed shortly after he was sworn in).
I mean, its one thing to have this narrative. Its another to support it with anything factual.
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan
You forgot Trump's increased military spending, his re-deployment of troops to the Polish/Russia border (I believe Obama pulled them out?), and his support of Ukraine against Russia.
TheRedneck
You forgot Trump's increased military spending, his re-deployment of troops to the Polish/Russia border (I believe Obama pulled them out?), and his support of Ukraine against Russia.
TheRedneck
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