objecting to " gay " birthday cakes ? the farce deepens

a reply to: Allaroundyou

no reason

a reply to: Elcabong

It's funny how their selective outrage works. There's also that funny other commandment from Jesus himself about loving the sinners and not passing judgement, he who is without sin cast the first stone, etc.

People are just using the religion as an excuse to hide their own bigotry. The fact that the supreme court ruled in favor of the bakers that wouldn't bake for a gay wedding, just because they were gay, not even based on the message on the cake, proves we still have a long way to go as a society as far as tolerance and equality goes.

They are just simply that narrow minded, that they think baking a cake makes them complicit in the homosexual behavior, which is complete nonsense. It's just their way of trying to punish sinners and being spiteful, which they have no authority in doing in the first place.

The US is currently headed down a very dark path that could be disastrous, especially with the new supreme court nomination. We are about to go back 40 years in progress, all due to religious bigotry and close minded behavior that puts themselves on a pedestal above all other people as if they couldn't possibly be wrong about their PERSONAL FAITH.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: ignorant_ape

Ohio has no protections for LGBT people; there's nothing they can do.

This puts the lie to "it isn't about them being gay" claim at any rate.

Interesting.

If you'd be kind as to indulge my curiosity for a few moments, could you explain exactly what you mean when you say "Ohio has no protections for LGBT people"?

Protection from what? I thought the goal was for gays to be treated the same as everybody else. You know, like they are in all the majority Muslim countries.

Islam IS the religion of love, you know.



Is there

originally posted by: Barcs
a reply to: Elcabong

It's funny how their selective outrage works. There's also that funny other commandment from Jesus himself about loving the sinners and not passing judgement, he who is without sin cast the first stone, etc.

People are just using the religion as an excuse to hide their own bigotry. The fact that the supreme court ruled in favor of the bakers that wouldn't bake for a gay wedding, just because they were gay, not even based on the message on the cake, proves we still have a long way to go as a society as far as tolerance and equality goes.

They are just simply that narrow minded, that they think baking a cake makes them complicit in the homosexual behavior, which is complete nonsense. It's just their way of trying to punish sinners and being spiteful, which they have no authority in doing in the first place.

The US is currently headed down a very dark path that could be disastrous, especially with the new supreme court nomination. We are about to go back 40 years in progress, all due to religious bigotry and close minded behavior that puts themselves on a pedestal above all other people as if they couldn't possibly be wrong about their PERSONAL FAITH.

You don't understand. Just like the scripture where you falsely conflate love with tolerance and acceptance of those unrepentant that practice sin, this is not the Christianity of the Bible. Homosexuality is condemned sin in scripture, a practice of the lost and perverted, and you can never pit scripture against scripture. There is an entire Bible context of sound doctrine. The Bible does not teach to love everything, willy nilly, far from it. The Bible is not politically correct, far from it. What you do, when you lump acceptance of homosexuality with love, is projecting your own acceptance of what is a sinful lifestyle on to the faith, simply a perverse view of the faith, not a matter of anything like racial bigotry. Skin color should be innocuous, not the same homosexuality. Skin color is not a lifestyle. You, in fact, are conflating your tolerance of sin so much as to make this ludicrous claim it's love to promote homosexuality, trying to create a false doctrine that is not Christianity, which, incidentally, will never fly with any authentic Christian. You're making being against sin bigotry, and you can debate that all day, but this is not the stand of the scripture Christians are called to live by. You can call us bigots, then, but we know what sin is and what our faith dictates. You can be assured, also, that Muslims would have Christians promoting Islam, by force and on pain of death, Islam a false religion to a Christian that is a sin. It's a different issue to live at peace with Muslims and doing anything, whatsoever, to promote Islam, the latter like commanding a Christian to be a liar.

All you're really doing is trying to move the goal posts, attacking the Christian faith, in fact, displaying your rejection of what are fixed, codified moral issues, to the person of faith. You can, by the same reasoning, call being against pedophilia bigotry, or bestiality, and the exact same arguments would be used that, where we are at now, in history, is some primitive stage where we are bigoted against pedophilia and bestiality, for lack of understanding these people. You could extend this to many criminal behaviors, call the criminals persecuted, their criminal behaviors some compulsive disease, a matter of misundertanding and bigotry against diseased people. All you're really demonstrating is that your moral compass blows around in the wind, can't point due north, is broken.

Now, Christian doctrine calls for living in the world with practicing sinners, at peace, so it would not be Christian to attack the homosexual, persecute or do violence to the homosexual, any more than a liar or any other unrepentant sinner. But it is forbidden to be party to and support sinful behavior, including homosexual behavior, as this makes you a partaker in the evil deeds. And this matter is not bigotry in the United States, as homosexuality is codified in Christian scripture as forbidden, and it's a matter of freedom to practice one's religious faith to not be party to the promotion of homosexuality, by the Constitution. You cannot conflate rejection of sinful behavior with bigotry, as much as you'd like to, and you will find yourself at odds with all goodwill Christendom in this, until the Lord Himself comes down and says, "Just kidding!", as to what scripture dictates, what is even good conscience in the Christian. No creature, flapping their gums about bigots, is going to usurp the faith of the Creator. Just lots of luck, trying to overturn the Christian faith, trying to battle with God. Not that I believe in luck, make no mistake.

You cannot tell any Christian what aspects of Christianity they can or cannot practice, tell the Christian they now must start throwing out thousands of years of scripture, when it comes to whom they elect to associate with or who they elect to support, cannot dictate to Christians in matters that are good faith practice of the Christian faith, tell any Christian they must pander to homosexuality, tell any Christian they must be party to sin. That's simply ridiculous, unacceptable, and calling for Christian resistance. In such a case, go ahead and call us bigots, then, and we'll call you evil Nazis, devils and offensive to our faith, offensive to the Constitution and Founders, since you've introduced purjorative labels against Christians. That's fair, isn't it? Especially when it's the truth, right? Incidentally, there is no such thing as a personal faith, that overrules those things God has addressed in scripture. Proverbs 14:12, Proverbs 3:5, 2 Peter 1:20.

Lastly, the sinner, the woman caught in adultery the Lord saved from stoning, was warned by Christ, "Go, and sin no more." He did not tell the woman to go and get her orrifice stuffed again, then go buy an adultery cake, to celebrate her adulteries. You guys that lift sentences out of paragraphs and try to create evil, new doctrines should simply never, ever pontificate on the Bible. You only make fools of yourself, to anybody that knows that Bible.

a reply to: ignorant_ape

a wopman ordered a birthday cake [ with no context - other than happpi burthday ] - for here same sex partner - the baker then alledgedly - looked the woman up on farce book - realised she was gay - and screamed religious objection - and cancelled the order

a wopman ordered a birthday cake ON FACEBOOK [ with no context - other than happpi burthday ] - for here same sex partner - the baker then alledgedly - looked the woman up on farce book - realised she was gay - and screamed religious objection - and cancelled the order

fixed it for you... the wopman in question was using facebook so here profile was shown

a reply to: Scrutinizing

It's actually you that does not understand. Personal religious beliefs are no excuse to discriminate, no matter what the bible says and nomatter what you think of other people's lifestyles. We don't live in a theocracy.

All you're really doing is trying to move the goal posts, attacking the Christian faith

Complete nonsense. What goal posts have been moved and where did I attack the faith? I was talking about BIGOTS, not all Christians. You live under the illusion that every Christian out there lives based on your narrow minded interpretation of scripture when there are hundreds of different sects and more than dozen bible translations. I know tons of Christians that tolerant of homosexuals.

You can, by the same reasoning, call being against pedophilia bigotry, or bestiality, and the exact same arguments would be used that, where we are at now, in history, is some primitive stage where we are bigoted against pedophilia and bestiality, for lack of understanding these people.

Comparing homosexuality to pedophila or beastiality is completely absurd and bigoted. Harming children psychologically damages them for LIFE. An animal cannot consent to sex. These things do not compare in the slightest to 2 people loving each other who happen to be the same sex. There is no harm in that, you just find it icky.

You could extend this to many criminal behaviors, call the criminals persecuted, their criminal behaviors some compulsive disease, a matter of misundertanding and bigotry against diseased people.

It's not against the law to be gay, so once again your comparison is completely illogical and unfounded. Criminal behaviors are HARMFUL to other people, that's why we have laws against them. Homosexuality harms nobody, in fact it does the opposite, it brings people together in love. You just have Christian snowflakes that are offended over what people do in the privacy of their own bedroom and think religion should be legislated.

Now, Christian doctrine calls for living in the world with practicing sinners, at peace, so it would not be Christian to attack the homosexual, persecute or do violence to the homosexual, any more than a liar or any other unrepentant sinner. But it is forbidden to be party to and support sinful behavior, including homosexual behavior, as this makes you a partaker in the evil deeds.

I already addressed this and it proves my point. It would not be "Christian" to persecute people, and that's EXACTLY what the bakers did. Doing your job and baking a cake for somebody that orders a cake is not participating in or supporting "sinful behavior." It's baking a goddamn cake, something they are paid to do. Should Christian business owners also stop allowing homosexuals to buy groceries as well or fill up their gas tanks or buy condoms, should they not sell them alcohol or allow them to eat in their restaurants or anything else that contributes to their lives? Where do you draw the line if anybody can just arbitrarily discriminate against somebody based on their personal opinion on the interpretation of their FAITH BASED BELIEF SYSTEM?

Also what do you think would happen if a Muslim or atheist bakery refused to serve Christians? I know atheists and Mulsims are minorities so it would be a bad business model, but the outrage from Christians would go through the roof. Put yourself in their shoes as Jesus taught. Don't judge. Don't Christians believe in forgiveness? How are homosexuals any different from the tons of other people (Christians included) that sin? He who is without sin cast the first stone. Remember that? According to Christianity ALL of us are sinners.

And this matter is not bigotry in the United States, as homosexuality is codified in Christian scripture as forbidden, and it's a matter of freedom to practice one's religious faith to not be party to the promotion of homosexuality, by the Constitution.

The united states is a secular nation and discrimination is NOT protected by the constitution. We are free to practice and believe whatever we want provided it does not infringe on the rights of others or harm them. Christians discriminating based on sexual preference is EXACTLY that, so to pretend that bigotry is allowed in the constitution just because you are Christian is completely wrong. You hold your beliefs to higher standards than other people, but there is no basis for it. Why should your religious views be protected, while theirs are not? This is the main problem with intolerant Christians. They think their personal faith is the be all end all and that everyone else is automatically wrong. The constitution protects all religious views equally including those who do not believe any religion.

Baking a cake is not promotion of homosexuality, it's treating all people equally, which IS protected in the constitution AND supported by Jesus himself. It's just Christians playing the victim card as they have been doing for centuries as societies move forward past their bigoted ways.

No creature, flapping their gums about bigots, is going to usurp the faith of the Creator. Just lots of luck, trying to overturn the Christian faith, trying to battle with God. Not that I believe in luck, make no mistake.

Nobody's trying to overturn your faith. They are just fighting for equal rights and treatment. Only a Christian would claim that you are being persecuted or attacked for having to treat people equally and not discriminate. It's funny how that hypocrisy works.

originally posted by: howtonhawky
a reply to: ignorant_ape

a wopman ordered a birthday cake [ with no context - other than happpi burthday ] - for here same sex partner - the baker then alledgedly - looked the woman up on farce book - realised she was gay - and screamed religious objection - and cancelled the order

a wopman ordered a birthday cake ON FACEBOOK [ with no context - other than happpi burthday ] - for here same sex partner - the baker then alledgedly - looked the woman up on farce book - realised she was gay - and screamed religious objection - and cancelled the order

fixed it for you... the wopman in question was using facebook so here profile was shown

It's still just as bad. It doesn't matter how the cake was ordered, it was denied for the sole reason that she was homosexual.

a reply to: Barcs

na not really bad to have free will

some person baking cakes in her home kitchen and selling them on facebook if i remember right from the first time this was made into a thread months ago.

it was circulated right when scotus ruled something to the effect that we should all not be so hostile to each other.

my view is still that if she sells the only cakes around then it could be a problem but as long as people have options then we should do business where we are welcome.

if someone refuses to sell a life saving medicine that is not available anywhere else within reach then there is a problem.

that is my opinion

a reply to: howtonhawky

The problem is if you allow it in that one particular instance, then other Christian bakeries and bakers will follow suit, and then a homosexual that wants access to the same services as everyone else will have to search ten times harder than everyone else. It's essentially segregation, which still qualifies as discrimination. Free will is not allowed if it infringes on other people's rights or discriminates against them.

a reply to: Barcs

That is not a problem.

Necessity is the mother of invention.

Do you understand how capitalism works?

Let us not have 96% of the population bending to the will of 4% of the population.

As you can clearly see there is no shortage of people willing to serve gay's.

The problem only exist in the msm and the minds of a few.

originally posted by: howtonhawky
a reply to: Barcs

That is not a problem.

Necessity is the mother of invention.

Do you understand how capitalism works?

Let us not have 96% of the population bending to the will of 4% of the population.

As you can clearly see there is no shortage of people willing to serve gay's.

The problem only exist in the msm and the minds of a few.

Yes, it's a problem because this country is 70% Christian and it depends where you are. If you live in the bible belt, it is becoming increasingly difficult for homosexuals to get service or equal treatment. It's not about bending to people's will, it's about treating people equally and not discriminating. We don't go by mob rule here, it doesn't matter if homosexuals made up .00001% of the population. It's still wrong to discriminate on that basis.

in light of the current farce over alledge " cencorship " [ jones and other cockwombles ]

its utterly amazing how many people think that publishers should host content they disagree with

while cakemakers hae impunity to refuse service

go figure

a reply to: Barcs

We disagree.

Being gay is a choice.

As long as they can buy a cake somewhere then they are not being discriminated.

It is not a problem and a couple cases does not equal what you are asserting.

a reply to: howtonhawky

being christian is a choice

originally posted by: ignorant_ape
in light of the current farce over alledge " cencorship " [ jones and other cockwombles ]

its utterly amazing how many people think that publishers should host content they disagree with

while cakemakers hae impunity to refuse service

go figure

It would be like wal-mart refusing them service..not the same as a small time operation.

Same with youtube...they have the majority of the market cornered. There is a difference.

Corporations are not people.

When the master cake maker rises and corners the majority of the market then he should not be allowed to refuse service.

Here is a hint...No one is gonna corner a market by discriminating.

originally posted by: ignorant_ape
a reply to: howtonhawky

being christian is a choice

Yes christianism is a choice.
One does not have to be christian to detest a bunghole ride.

originally posted by: ignorant_ape
in light of the current farce over alledge " cencorship " [ jones and other cockwombles ]

its utterly amazing how many people think that publishers should host content they disagree with

while cakemakers hae impunity to refuse service

go figure

Very good point. Forcing a homo cake? Bad. Forcing offensive content? Good. It would interesting to see what would happen if somebody was refused a tin foil hat cake. Add to that somebody forcing you to use a spellchecker.

On that note, back to cakes. As a Christian, if I were a cake baker, I'd sell any generic cake to a homo. I'd sell any cake to a homo, even if they were in drag and had five o'clock shadow. Shoot, I'd sell that homo a wedding cake, if they would simply keep their mouth shut, didn't ask me to bless the marriage. But, as soon as that homo tells me to make a cake for a homo marriage, which is not marriage, anyway, or put Adam and Steve on the cake, or a homo couple ornament, that's where I have a right to refuse, on moral grounds of the Christian faith, if there is any expectation I am supposed to, cognitively, be involved with, supporting or promoting, homo marriage, which is an evil absurdity, by the faith. Actually, I'm not wholly against homo wedding cakes.

If the homo wants a wedding cake with some Romans 1 scripture, or maybe enscribed, "Satan doesn't care where that thing has been!", or how about this? A microscopic depiction of the AIDS virus in frosting, enscribed, "It's the little things that count!"? I'd sell them that, give it to them, for free, if they'd agree to let me deliver it, make sure it's on display at the reception. So, you see, Kumbaya. I'm not completely against homo wedding cakes.

By the way, I don't get the issue, like the homo in drag simply buying a wedding cake, with a homo buying a birthday cake, as long as you don't have to enscribe anything supporting or promoting homosexuality on it. There's no moral issue with homos buying things to eat, having birthdays! The homo marriage controversy is a very heated issue, a special case, for sacred reasons I'll not go into all Christians understand. But, obviously, everybody has birthdays, the way God made us. Just don't expect a Christian baker to put on a cake, "Happy Birthday! Thirty more years packing that...". On second thought, let's not go there.

Why can't you homos have your own bakeries, even? Stop the whining. Open a chain like AC/DC Cakes or something. Start a movement for, maybe, a Satan friendly logo in windows, like those MasterCard or Visa stickers. Personally, if I went to a baker that refused a hetero wedding cake or a Christian cake, I'd not want to pay their sorry rears, anyway, and completely accept the fact my cake is not in their inventory, note to self forget that place. Let the market work things out. I'd not force squat on the conscience of anybody. What's your problem, homo cake eaters? (That's rhetorical, as I know what the real problem is, and you're not ever going to get where you want to go. That's impossible.)

originally posted by: Barcs
a reply to: Scrutinizing

It's actually you that does not understand. Personal religious beliefs are no excuse to discriminate, no matter what the bible says and nomatter what you think of other people's lifestyles. We don't live in a theocracy.

All you're really doing is trying to move the goal posts, attacking the Christian faith

Complete nonsense. What goal posts have been moved and where did I attack the faith? I was talking about BIGOTS, not all Christians. You live under the illusion that every Christian out there lives based on your narrow minded interpretation of scripture when there are hundreds of different sects and more than dozen bible translations. I know tons of Christians that tolerant of homosexuals.

You can, by the same reasoning, call being against pedophilia bigotry, or bestiality, and the exact same arguments would be used that, where we are at now, in history, is some primitive stage where we are bigoted against pedophilia and bestiality, for lack of understanding these people.

Comparing homosexuality to pedophila or beastiality is completely absurd and bigoted. Harming children psychologically damages them for LIFE. An animal cannot consent to sex. These things do not compare in the slightest to 2 people loving each other who happen to be the same sex. There is no harm in that, you just find it icky.

You could extend this to many criminal behaviors, call the criminals persecuted, their criminal behaviors some compulsive disease, a matter of misundertanding and bigotry against diseased people.

It's not against the law to be gay, so once again your comparison is completely illogical and unfounded. Criminal behaviors are HARMFUL to other people, that's why we have laws against them. Homosexuality harms nobody, in fact it does the opposite, it brings people together in love. You just have Christian snowflakes that are offended over what people do in the privacy of their own bedroom and think religion should be legislated.

Now, Christian doctrine calls for living in the world with practicing sinners, at peace, so it would not be Christian to attack the homosexual, persecute or do violence to the homosexual, any more than a liar or any other unrepentant sinner. But it is forbidden to be party to and support sinful behavior, including homosexual behavior, as this makes you a partaker in the evil deeds.

I already addressed this and it proves my point. It would not be "Christian" to persecute people, and that's EXACTLY what the bakers did. Doing your job and baking a cake for somebody that orders a cake is not participating in or supporting "sinful behavior." It's baking a goddamn cake, something they are paid to do. Should Christian business owners also stop allowing homosexuals to buy groceries as well or fill up their gas tanks or buy condoms, should they not sell them alcohol or allow them to eat in their restaurants or anything else that contributes to their lives? Where do you draw the line if anybody can just arbitrarily discriminate against somebody based on their personal opinion on the interpretation of their FAITH BASED BELIEF SYSTEM?

Also what do you think would happen if a Muslim or atheist bakery refused to serve Christians? I know atheists and Mulsims are minorities so it would be a bad business model, but the outrage from Christians would go through the roof. Put yourself in their shoes as Jesus taught. Don't judge. Don't Christians believe in forgiveness? How are homosexuals any different from the tons of other people (Christians included) that sin? He who is without sin cast the first stone. Remember that? According to Christianity ALL of us are sinners.

And this matter is not bigotry in the United States, as homosexuality is codified in Christian scripture as forbidden, and it's a matter of freedom to practice one's religious faith to not be party to the promotion of homosexuality, by the Constitution.

The united states is a secular nation and discrimination is NOT protected by the constitution. We are free to practice and believe whatever we want provided it does not infringe on the rights of others or harm them. Christians discriminating based on sexual preference is EXACTLY that, so to pretend that bigotry is allowed in the constitution just because you are Christian is completely wrong. You hold your beliefs to higher standards than other people, but there is no basis for it. Why should your religious views be protected, while theirs are not? This is the main problem with intolerant Christians. They think their personal faith is the be all end all and that everyone else is automatically wrong. The constitution protects all religious views equally including those who do not believe any religion.

Baking a cake is not promotion of homosexuality, it's treating all people equally, which IS protected in the constitution AND supported by Jesus himself. It's just Christians playing the victim card as they have been doing for centuries as societies move forward past their bigoted ways.

No creature, flapping their gums about bigots, is going to usurp the faith of the Creator. Just lots of luck, trying to overturn the Christian faith, trying to battle with God. Not that I believe in luck, make no mistake.

Nobody's trying to overturn your faith. They are just fighting for equal rights and treatment. Only a Christian would claim that you are being persecuted or attacked for having to treat people equally and not discriminate. It's funny how that hypocrisy works.

Yeah. I'm sure. You went to a great effort to post a lot of claptrap that is dead wrong, on many levels, from the legal reality to philosophical, sophomoric nonsense. You're in some liberal lala land of your own creation, and there is no way to respond to such a litany of baseless, personal political bias that is Nazi, if anything, and so devoid of understanding, of understanding anything, whatsoever, from where the law of your nation stands to simple matters of faith and behavior that are not your call. Fact is, Nazis like you would discriminate against anything and everybody that stands with what has been acceptable moral order, for thousands of years, would destroy the remnant of anything good in God's creation, if you could. But you can't. Bottom line, your world will never exist, while there's one child of God left, and you're going down. Deal with it.

Just wondering, if I'm bisexual can I get half a cake?

originally posted by: halfoldman
Just wondering, if I'm bisexual can I get half a cake?

Of course you can, and it's a lot better for a pervert's waistline! By the way, is that like being a little bit country, and a little bit rock and roll, San Francisco style?