This is the deceitful news im tired of.

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: Greven

originally posted by: face23785
A lot of the confusion about Nazis being "far right" comes from people who think "left" and "right" are the only directions on the political spectrum. Nazis are authoritarian, which people today associate with the right, but authoritarianism is neither left nor right.

Wishful thinking. You could perhaps argue it is different these days, but history is history.

Recall, this originated from where politicians sat in assembly in France... the King sat in the middle, the people who supported the King sat on the right, and the people opposed sat on the left of the King.

What were these politicians divided on?
How much authority the King should have - originally, the rift was about how powerful the King's veto was.

The Right were conservative monarchists, who supported the King having more power.
The Left were liberal anti-royalists, who supported reducing the King's power.

Yeah, my statement stands. The Nazis were authoritarians. Authoritarians can be left or right. The origins of the terms left and right in political speak don't change that. Authoritarians are still not inherently left or right.

You wouldn't consider a monarch to be authoritarian?

a reply to: solargeddon

Mr. Trump changed, significantly, around 2011. I am not sure what happened to him.

a reply to: face23785

Obama didn't however invoke obligatory separation upon entering the US unlike what has occurred in the last few months.

Even your article states separations were made to determine best interests for the child, i.e trafficking, not with relatives...criminals.

Trump began separating all "families" regardless..this ia a big difference and is why your argument doesn't stand up.

All children, not just the questionable ones.

How poorly they were treated under Obama speaks to how the US in general deals with ward of courts.

Trump took a policy and blanket applied, which is why there was such uproar.

Cherry picking articles to deflect what Trump did isn't going to wash.

Perhaps the US need to stop supporting Trump and start seeing how they look to the rest of the world, I can tell you, from where I am sitting there is no way I would ever come to your country, nor support it until it comes to its senses.

Your voting system needs an overhaul, it's vote right, or vote further (boardering upon extreme) right....this is not a democracy.

It would take a Bernie Saunders to begin to sort out the problems in the US, even then what could be acheived would be limited.

You've got a hell of a lot more than 99 problems and the random insomniac from the UK is definately not one of them.

originally posted by: solargeddon
a reply to: xBWOMPx

Wow how deluded are you!

Under Obama only children of parents who were criminals were separated, I don't even live in the US and I know this.

Swearing won't make your point correct, the Nazi's weren't socialist's yet you band the term around as if to say it is synonymous with the left...choose better wording.

You thnk the media are stirring the pot think again Trump tweeted that Scotland were wild for the vote (Brexit) what followed were numerous tweets regarding the truth....Scotland voted to remain in the EU so Trump is basically lying...interestingly enough at the end of this portion of your response you almost look resigned to the fact that Trump is just as bad the rest which is interesting.

Your last paragrph reads as though you are willing America to implode on itself...why what does that get you?

Dead fast surely?

I don't know about the US but here in the UK education is valued for the best part there is no brainwashing or indoctrination my son is being given a balanced and robust education...what school cannot provide I fill in the blanks, however my son's education is first rate whatever happens he has been better educated than me and will be better placed to going forward to contribute to discussion in general.

Im deluded? Crossing the border illegally is a crime, when caught parent and children are separated...
And sure

a reply to: Greven

I believe the "reference point" in use by some here may be the various versions of the "Nolan Chart."

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: solargeddon

Mr. Trump changed, significantly, around 2011. I am not sure what happened to him.

Something happened to Hitler too which led him to change.

See Paralells.

Trump was a Democrat once upon a time, though I have seen something where apparently Trump made a comment regarding Republicans would support him.

I think he was shunned, manipulated and tricked, thus the 180, if true the same happened to Hitler.

Would be fascinating if that were the case.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Greven

I believe the "reference point" in use by some here may be the various versions of the "Nolan Chart."

Probably, but it's not a very good chart.

a reply to: solargeddon

Sure, sure ... I don't disagree per se ... but again for me ... it's just too easy to make these comparisons ... all the way from Ivana claiming that he kept Mein Kampf on the bedside table to Laura Ingram offering the Roman Salute to Trump at the Republican Convention ... or that Trump seems to be intentionally mimicking the facial expressions and body language of Mussolini ... (and that's just wierd).

originally posted by: solargeddon
a reply to: face23785

Obama didn't however invoke obligatory separation upon entering the US unlike what has occurred in the last few months.

Even your article states separations were made to determine best interests for the child, i.e trafficking, not with relatives...criminals.

Trump began separating all "families" regardless..this ia a big difference and is why your argument doesn't stand up.

All children, not just the questionable ones.

How poorly they were treated under Obama speaks to how the US in general deals with ward of courts.

Trump took a policy and blanket applied, which is why there was such uproar.

Cherry picking articles to deflect what Trump did isn't going to wash.

Perhaps the US need to stop supporting Trump and start seeing how they look to the rest of the world, I can tell you, from where I am sitting there is no way I would ever come to your country, nor support it until it comes to its senses.

Your voting system needs an overhaul, it's vote right, or vote further (boardering upon extreme) right....this is not a democracy.

It would take a Bernie Saunders to begin to sort out the problems in the US, even then what could be acheived would be limited.

You've got a hell of a lot more than 99 problems and the random insomniac from the UK is definately not one of them.

You know how many children were brought in to the United States that weren't with there true parents? I honestly dont but there are more than 20,000 Mexican children are victims of sex trafficking every year. People fighting to keep children with there parents and making it hard for ICE to do there job is virtually defending human trafficking which blows my mind. And you think im deluded and your well educated.... PFFFT Ok Mr.UK And Bernie would turn this country into Venezuela real quick if he were president. Thank god he didn't get in, that guy is an idiot and for one someone who rooted for Russia during the cold war, had russian flags up in his office, vacated to Russia and spent his honeymoons in Russia to run the USA. And all these liberals hate the fact that Trump and Putin would get along but it's ok for Bernie to love Russia.... pffft PFFFT, crazy indeed

gvnet.com...

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: solargeddon

Sure, sure ... I don't disagree per se ... but again for me ... it's just too easy to make these comparisons ... all the way from Ivana claiming that he kept Mein Kampf on the bedside table to Laura Ingram offering the Roman Salute to Trump at the Republican Convention ... or that Trump seems to be intentionally mimicking the facial expressions and body language of Mussolini ... (and that's just wierd).

All of the above I have never heard of until your post...media sensationalism?

None of the above is what I am looking at when I'm drawing parallels, I agree none of those alleged circumstances would equate to anything...it's deeper than that.

Though at almost 4am over here it is time for me to say hello to my bed.

a reply to: xBWOMPx

A) Of course fight for children to stay with their parents..whatever the cost, the damage done by separating them is immeasurable.
B) That's Ms UK to you.
3) it's too early in the morning now, us educated peeps need our intellectual sleep.
D) Have a good evening and try to be a little less worked up about it all.

originally posted by: solargeddon
a reply to: xBWOMPx

A) Of course fight for children to stay with their parents..whatever the cost, the damage done by separating them is immeasurable.
B) That's Ms UK to you.
3) it's too early in the morning now, us educated peeps need our intellectual sleep.
D) Have a good evening and try to be a little less worked up about it all.

Im far from worked up, just trying to understand how separating a child from their actual parent is more detrimental then a child being sold as a sex slave.... Sleep on that one

a reply to: Gryphon66

You might like this chart better.

a reply to: Ahabstar
I won't say it's wrong so much as incomplete.

This is perhaps a difficulty of trying to distill ideas such that they fit on a two-axis chart.

Let's look at a few of these from an older post trimmed down a little...

originally posted by: Greven
Communism - a primarily economic system that aims to distribute wealth equally throughout a political entity through the distribution of ownership and abolition of money (a controlled economy).
Capitalism - a primarily economic system that relies on continued economic growth in a political entity through exploitation of resources, private ownership, and the use of a market economy.
Individualism - a primarily social system that promotes individual wants and interests above that of society.
Socialism - a primarily social system that promotes societal wants and interests above that of individuals.
...
Authoritarianism - a primarily leadership system that puts faith and obedience to authority/government.
Libertarianism - a primarily leadership system that puts faith and priority in individual freedoms.

Three axis is better at classification, but a bit harder to depict. It's possible that increasingly narrower classifications could be established with each additional axis, though I suppose at some point it might lose its usefulness in establishing identity politics.

a reply to: Greven

Problem with charts is when you try to pin people down as to what they are when terms and even ideas are fluid from subject to subject. While I don’t assert it often (enough) most people accept that I am a Constitutionalist. Which would be a Conservative Nationaist on that chart. But I am neither unfriendly nor hold other ideologies in utter contempt, so I kinda fall in line with Cultural Nationalist on the authoritarian scale or perhaps a Conservative Liberal might be an Ardent Constitutioalist and a Conservative Nationalist is a Strict Constitutionalist.

Without naming names, there are more than a few on ATS that are at that CN point as they kinda get in the range of guns ho militia stereotypes that are ready to green light the Revolution.

But look at that Neo Liberal point, loopy and demanding. Are we talking Nancy Pelosi and Maxine Waters level or some of our more reactionary Liberal posters on ATS that will tell you a rising tide lifts all boats but if you are not on board then get off the damn boat cause we don’t want you...or the Skyscreamers of memes.

Note it is all fairly Centrist until you hit the fringes and even the Republicans are left of center to cover Nixon, Reagan and Trump compared to say Barry Goldwater or Joe McCarthy.

But then again, look at where Democratic-Socialists hit on the Authority scale, that’s right up there with Skinheads and the Klan when it comes to cracking skulls for being opposed to their ideals. FDR’s Untouchables indeed.

a reply to: Ahabstar

Pretty colors!

originally posted by: xBWOMPx

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: xBWOMPx
So, anyway, to me it makes it sound like "See, far right extremist conservatives are nazis" but in reality people who know real history nazis have ALWAYS been a socialist. During WWII nazis were far right back then ONLY because there fellow counter part were communist.

Um... Nazis came to power shortly before WWII. How can you say they've always been socialist then excuse them NOT being socialist during the one war that impacted the whole world that featured them? You are being contradictory here.

Though regardless, your argument is wrong. Just having the name "socialist" in your name doesn't make you socialist. The Democratic People's Republic of Korea is nether a democracy nor a republic.

It really baffles me why right leaning people are so intent on disavowing the dark side of their ideology.

I never said they were NOT socialist and yes, they were socialist.

No. They weren't. Your argument is flawed and doing a elementary school yard come back of "NUH HUH! I'M RIGHT!" isn't going to magically make it so.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: xBWOMPx

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: xBWOMPx
So, anyway, to me it makes it sound like "See, far right extremist conservatives are nazis" but in reality people who know real history nazis have ALWAYS been a socialist. During WWII nazis were far right back then ONLY because there fellow counter part were communist.

Um... Nazis came to power shortly before WWII. How can you say they've always been socialist then excuse them NOT being socialist during the one war that impacted the whole world that featured them? You are being contradictory here.

Though regardless, your argument is wrong. Just having the name "socialist" in your name doesn't make you socialist. The Democratic People's Republic of Korea is nether a democracy nor a republic.

It really baffles me why right leaning people are so intent on disavowing the dark side of their ideology.

I never said they were NOT socialist and yes, they were socialist.

No. They weren't. Your argument is flawed and doing a elementary school yard come back of "NUH HUH! I'M RIGHT!" isn't going to magically make it so.

If you havent noticed, everybody else is to, just pick a side and argue because "NUH HUH! YOU'RE FACE IS FLAWED" if its not then magically prove it. 🤓

a reply to: xBWOMPx

"Everyone else is doing it" doesn't excuse your inability to back up your claim. The FACT of the matter is that the Nazis aren't, weren't and have never been Socialists. That is a fact that is established by historical evidence. You can say, "nope you're wrong" all you want but it won't make your correct. It just makes you a history revisionist, and those people are merely propagandists.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: xBWOMPx

"Everyone else is doing it" doesn't excuse your inability to back up your claim. The FACT of the matter is that the Nazis aren't, weren't and have never been Socialists. That is a fact that is established by historical evidence. You can say, "nope you're wrong" all you want but it won't make your correct. It just makes you a history revisionist, and those people are merely propagandists.

There is plenty of historical evidence, you guys really blow my mind. This never use to be an argument until Obama got in office, the media, schools changing what to teach. Whats even crazier is people dont know how to think anymore and question everything. Google is the answer to everything, the younger generation wont ever go to a library. When i have time i will. Ill put the text book titles i find, ill take pictures and i will come back with a new thread about hitlers socialist system people loved back then before he got in power, oh yeah, he offered free stuff just like Bernie did and people ate it up and through this system piece by piece he took everything away, staged terror attacks and started his war machine. Anyway, keep googling because itll keep you illinformed and sounding like an idiot.