A Scholar, Ye shall Know Him By His Fruit

a reply to: DeathSlayer

You are correct but most of the time I can handle some wounds and injuries. I'll take your hint and try not ot strike so sealously.

a reply to: DISRAELI

Not to worry Disraeli, I was trying to show that you may not have the Harvest I have had because you are a genuine scholar, compared to most. We lack men of research today.

I am not a scholar that is why I have had a greater Harvest than some.

a reply to: ChesterJohn
Since Paul lists teachers alongside apostles and prophets, you will concede perhaps that "rotting fruit" was not a necessary expression.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Oh excuse me.

I was only using the term most use for it.

I am not the only smooth talker here, I see. And again, I have challenged you once already. You are very, very good at rebuking. Now you have not only held me against your own standard and found me to be no true Christian, but you have also held up Disraeli and found me to be no true Christian again.

You have stated that the first step is to convict others in their sin, and then you say you must lead them to the Lord.

Where is the leading? I am waiting still for that to begin.

Or am I not worthy because I sin?

a reply to: ketsuko

If I was CJ I would be going after that big plank in his own eye before hacking and slashing at others
However he judges others he will receive the same judgement, that's scary

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: ketsuko

If I was CJ I would be going after that big plank in his own eye before hacking and slashing at others
However he judges others he will receive the same judgement, that's scary

The way is through belief in Christ and what He did, but all of us find that way along different paths even if we end up in the same place with the same faith in the end.

a reply to: ketsuko

We are all Broken sinners on a journey lead by the Holy Spirit, slowly becomming whole as promised. Just need to get to the other side before we become whole

It's a tough road

There are a million wYs to Jesus but only one Jesus

a reply to: DISRAELI

You will notice how all the other gifts are written out in English,

Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; (KJV)

Some of the gifts listed use the word some and end that gift with a semi-colon, all except the gift Pastors and teachers. You see that with all but pastors and teachers. This indicates that the gift of pastors and teachers go together they are not a separate gift but a gift of unity. Also you will notice that all of the gifts begin with a lower case and not an upper case letter, that is because the gifts are gifts for action and not titles. With the onset of this last of the church dispensation circa 1700AD give or take some years i.e. the Laodicean Church age, Laodicean means peoples rights, civil rights (something you will notice this world is infatuated with, it was within the last few hundred years as the worldly church has been emerging that all of the gifts slowly were converted to Titles and not necessarily the gift any more, because it is the Holy Ghost gives gifts as he sees fit, he does not give titles.

There has been rotten fruit in all generations including ours.

a reply to: ketsuko

On the contrary I know what Disraeli is a true Scholar, you on the other hand show who you are and you are not a scholar.

I can judge as the bible says I can especially among fellow believers, we don't judge those onthe outside but only those who claim to be of the church, the body of Christ

1Co 5:10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.
(KJV)

and by that I and any true believers are not judged of no man

1Co 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

a shepherd leads from behind the flock, he coaxes therm along with a shepherds staff as he pushes them along.

Not a one of us is worthy, for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. And it is God the Holy Ghost that gives the gift that allows one to pastor as he teaches. I have seen plenty of man get an education to do the job of a pastor but do not have the calling. Having the calling allows one to do his calling without money and he never goes hungry or without his needs being met. I did t for over 17 years now and I continue to do so.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Thanks for confirming for me the spiritual arrogance that drove me away from Christianity in the first place; and confirming my initial suspicion that "the calling" is nothing more than ego and vanity.

a reply to: Raggedyman

You know not the scriptures or you would no my judgement has already been done, if the work done after that be tested in that day it will burn or it will stand but I remain saved 1 Cor 3:11-15.

Secondly, the scripture you are quoting for one was for Israel's preparation for coming into their Kingdom, for it was at hand. But once they killed Jesus and then given one last chance which they failed in Act 7 when they stoned Stephan. Israel was set aside from receiving their kingdom until later and a new Apostle was called Paul.

If you are a Jew living in the Kingdom and you judge someone and that judgement is done in unrighteousness then that same person gets that same judgement INSTANTLY by he who sits and King and Judge. Just as if you are struck on the right cheek you are not to return the same but turn to them the other cheek, because if their striking was done in unrighteousness before they can strike the other cheek the King and Judge will strike down the person INSTANTLY. This is called ruling with a rod of iron

Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

And if I was to falsely accuse you as you have me I would just quote "Judge not lest thee be judged" like all humanist like to do.

a reply to: ketsuko

You forget the Bible is not just another religious book for religious people out of many religious books, it is a HISTORY BOOK about a King, his Kingdom, his People, his City, his Nation in his Heaven.

You have to rightly divide the word of truth, you need to rightly divide that nation and that people. Israel is a chosen people and their day will come as promised to rule the whole world from Jerusalem by a King, in his city fro a millennium on the old corrupted earth, and then into all eternity after the Judgement. We as Christians, will already be in his New Jerusalem abiding with him forever after our gathering unto him in the clouds ever more to be with him.

You need to spend more time studying the Bible instead of just quoting what verses suit you to do exactly what you claim I am doing.

a reply to: Raggedyman

Raggedy, what exactly do you mean by wYs?

a reply to: olaru12

NO one drove you away. You were never saved to begin with. If you were saved you would not have left no matter what you may have thought you was "spiritual arrogance". You just look to blame someone to alibi your sinfulness.

You judged someone as you do me as arrogant, instead of searching the scriptures to see if what they and I say are true.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

Your knowledge of the scripture is partial, in both senses of that word.
1 Corinthians ch12 v28; "First apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then everybody else."

I wasn't claiming any titles. I was just pointing out that a particular function is one of those that God has appointed and wants to be carried out.
You really must stop ranting and disparaging everybody in sight.
It puts you in a bad light, and it puts the gospel in a bad light.
And please stop using me as a standard for disparaging ketsuko.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Meant to be “ways”

If you're so worried about scholars, why are you repeating the arguments of those scholars who are tickling your ears, i.e. telling you what you want to hear and believe? (see 2 Timothy 4:3,4)

King James Only movement - Wikipedia

History

Benjamin G. Wilkinson (1872–1968), a Seventh-day Adventist missionary, theology professor and college president, wrote Our Authorized Bible Vindicated (1930) in which he asserted that some of the new versions of the Bible coming out, came from manuscripts with corruptions introduced into the Septuagint by Origen, and manuscripts with deletions and changes from corrupted Alexandrian text. He criticized Westcott and Hort, believing they intentionally rejected the use of the Textus Receptus and they made changes to the text used in translation using their revised Greek text based mainly on the Codex Vaticanus and Codex Sinaiticus.[7]

Your other thread repeats the same argument from this Seventh-day Adventist scholar. Even though you're not a Seventh-day Adventist. How quick you are to jump on board his bandwagon while hypocritically and ironically complaining about other people "setting up scholars as gods to be referred to when needed to understand the Bible when in fact they are confusing it". As you are doing (allthough I wouldn't call you a scholar like Benjamin Wilkinson, still talking their talk and walking their walk or path that they've laid down for you, using and promoting their teachings and arguments as if these are needed to understand the bible, using your words). The guy is just slandering other scholars who wouldn't agree with him on his 'King James Only'-arguments. As you are doing in the other thread. Your accusations towards Westcott and Hort there are just as misleading as Benjamin Wilkinson's teachings (which accusations aren't exactly spelled out by wikipedia above, those are just convenient half-truths not telling the whole story but still containing insinuations that are more applicable to the Textus Receptus and the KJB). The scholar you deny any connection to and who got the ball rolling for the so-called "King James Only movemement" whose arguments and teachings you are repeating.

2 Timothy 4:3,4 (NW, in spite of your dislike for honest understandable translations)

For there will be a period of time when they will not put up with the wholesome* [Or “healthful; beneficial.”] teaching, but according to their own desires, they will surround themselves with teachers to have their ears tickled.* [Or “to tell them what they want to hear.”] 4 They will turn away from listening to the truth and give attention to false stories.

Some people call it confirmation bias. Incidentally, young earth creationism is also a philosophy/idea or teaching that comes from Seventh-day Adventists (scholars again). Which I know Raggedyman believes in (not sure if that also counts for Chesterjohn). Funny how so many people take their information from Seventh-day Adventist scholars while claiming to think for themselves and getting their information straight from God or God's Word (or their supposed understanding was revealed to them by holy spirit, or "The Holy Ghost" as some people say; implying some sort of divine spiritual enlightenment or revelation), or repeating the arguments of those who do or have done that in the past. Following after men rather than God.

You are following after Benjamin Wilkinson and his successors and their way of thinking, arguing and teaching, not Christ. At Mark 10:21, we read Jesus’ words: “Come be my follower.” That is, in effect, Jesus’ invitation to each one of us. We do well to ask ourselves, ‘How will I respond?’ The answer might appear to be obvious. Who would refuse such a splendid invitation? Surprisingly, most people do refuse. The Scriptures warn that "the heart is treacherous", "who can know it?" (Jeremiah 17:9)

Prove to Be a Real Follower of Christ

“Every good tree produces fine fruit, but every rotten tree produces worthless fruit.”​—MATT. 7:17.

JESUS said that those falsely professing to serve him would be distinguished from his true followers by their fruits​—their teachings and their conduct. (Matt. 7:15-17, 20) Indeed, people are inevitably influenced by what they take into their mind and heart. (Matt. 15:18, 19) Those who are fed falsehoods produce “worthless fruit,” whereas those who are taught spiritual truth produce “fine fruit.”
...

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
...You will notice that the preacher who "sought to find out acceptable words" (Ecc. 12:10) no sooner found out "that which was written was upright, even words of truth" (notice the plural: Ecc. 12:10), than the Scholar's Union transvested him into a "scholar" (see NKJV, Eec. 12:10), whereas the Holy Scriptures had him listed as a "preacher."

You'd better think about that two or three years before you buy an NIVor NASV; they both converted the "preacher" in-. to a teacher.

Eccl. 12:10 (NW)

The congregator sought to find delightful words and to record accurate words of truth.

A person might want to find out a little more about why it's translated in a particular way before automatically assuming the KJV is the only correct one based on what they've been told by the likes of scholars such as Benjamin Wilkinson and his successors, followers and fans (of his arguments, teachings and insinuations).

On the biblehub website (Eccl.12:10) you can see the Hebrew word in question: Qo·heʹleth (transliterated slightly differently there).

1. For what lofty purpose was Ecclesiastes written?

THE book of Ecclesiastes was written for a lofty purpose. Solomon, as leader of a people dedicated to Jehovah, had the responsibility to hold them together in faithfulness to their dedication. He sought to fulfill this responsibility by means of the wise counsel of Ecclesiastes.

2. How is this purpose expressed in Ecclesiastes’ Hebrew name, thus making this more appropriate than the Greek and English names?

2 In Ecclesiastes 1:1 he refers to himself as “the congregator.” The word in the Hebrew language is Qo·heʹleth, and in the Hebrew Bible, the book is given that name. The Greek Septuagint gives the title as Ek·kle·si·a·stesʹ, meaning “a member of an ecclesia (congregation; assembly),” from which is derived the English name Ecclesiastes. However, Qo·heʹleth is more aptly translated “The Congregator,” and this is also a more fitting designation for Solomon. It conveys Solomon’s purpose in writing the book.

3. In what sense was Solomon a congregator?

3 In what sense was King Solomon a congregator, and to what did he do congregating? He was a congregator of his people, the Israelites, and of their companions, the temporary residents. He congregated all of these to the worship of his God, Jehovah. Previously he had built Jehovah’s temple in Jerusalem, and at its dedication he had called together, or congregated, all of them to the worship of God. (1 Ki. 8:1) Now, by means of Ecclesiastes, he sought to congregate his people to worthwhile works and away from the vain, fruitless works of this world.​—Eccl. 12:8-10.

...

Source: Bible Book Number 21—Ecclesiastes (“All Scripture Is Inspired of God and Beneficial”)

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
...
Did you ever think how that sermon would have struck the Christian scholars between 1800 and 1990 who produced all the modern trash (NW, NASV, ASV, RSV, NRSV, RV, NKJV) that is on the market today? "A short-sighted fool?" Isn't that some way to talk about Zane Hodges, Millar Burrows, Wilbur Pickering, Reuben Olson, Bob Jones IV, Arthur Farstad, Kurt Aland, and Bruce Metzger? "A short-sighted fool!" What was Rice's authority for calling the greatest Christian intellects of the twentieth century "short-sighted fools"? My, how rude of " good, godly, kind, Dr. John!" Do you know who this would have included if it were so? B. M. Metzger, H. Von Soden, Eberhard and Erwin Nestle, Fred Afman, James Price, R. M. Grant, Kenneth Wuest, Wilbur Pickering, Philip Schaff and all of their friends and associates.

"Short-sighted fools."
...

The slanderer gets pleasure in revealing things that cause sensation. "Slander" is another word for "abusive speech".

Jude 10

But these men are speaking abusively about all the things they really do not understand. And in all the things that they do understand by instinct like unreasoning animals, they go on corrupting themselves.

Proverbs 26:22

The words of a slanderer are like tasty morsels;* [Or “like things to be swallowed greedily.”]

They are gulped right down into the stomach. [see also the reminder under my accountname]

Talking about trash...

Proverbs 30:12

There is a generation that is pure in its own eyes

But has not been cleansed from its filth.* [Lit., “excrement.”]

a reply to: whereislogic

Well abusive speech could also be malignant speech. Something you are familiar with in you very reply in speaking about me and trying to shame me using verses that while spiritually, might have some relevance are more pointed to ISRAEL, failure to rightly divide will always lead to people Maligning others with verse that are not for the Body of Christ. I needent say more.