Why do Democrats oppose immigration control?

originally posted by: 1337Kph
HAHAHA by all means I will read every word of yours twice if you begin to try and educate me on how the European invasion to America was good for the natives.

I never made that claim or suggested that was the case. I just said that the situation back then and the situation now aren't comparable and you'd understand this if you understood history better.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

updating your thinking if shown to be wrong

Krazy, I think many of us are more than willing to update old ideas/thinking if shown to be wrong. That is part of learning and being a human being

Happens to me all of the time

How many on the far left can say the same? (again, not directing this toward Democrats/mainstream left wing)

originally posted by: JBurns
Mainstream Democrats do not support open borders. It is the far-left "progressive" (read: socialists/borderline commies) who are pushing that nonsense. Only problem is that the socialists are violent and very vindictive toward any Democrat not meeting their "purity" standards.

Mainstream Democrats/moderates/true lovers of liberty must regain control of their party before November. Never before has a major political party allowed itself to be taken over by an ultra-minority who are solely focused on pushing a historically unpopular agenda (wedge issues only, for them!) and instituting an unlawful form of government.

Part of their outrage about losing the SCOTUS is their inability to pass (self described) "progressive" legislation that would limit our free speech rights (in the name of anti-hate speech laws), our god-given rights to self defense and RKBA (in the name of anti-gun 'safety' laws) and to (against in their own words) legally pursue Republicans/libertarians and those who support President Trump's agenda

Without a compliant Supreme Court, the bulk majority of their impact will be mitigated before it even begins. It is President Trump that is safeguarding our Constitution and our individual liberty.

That was an interesting read, thanks
It's the same in Britain, the minority are the loudest, think of the stupid anti Trump protests when he visits. The overwhelming majority of Brits either don't care or have no problem with your President. A huge number are ashamed that our countryfolk are disrespecting him for basically no reason that affects our lives at all. Even bitching about his immigration policy, they should be at 10 Downing street protesting the UK policy then because it is way harsher and stricter than Trumps.

originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: Krazysh0t

updating your thinking if shown to be wrong

Krazy, I think many of us are more than willing to update old ideas/thinking if shown to be wrong. That is part of learning and being a human being

Happens to me all of the time

How many on the far left can say the same? (again, not directing this toward Democrats/mainstream left wing)

I'd say the same proportion of those on the extreme right that are also up their own asses in self-reinforcing echo chambers of their chosen ideology.

Though I still don't agree with you here. Tomorrow or the next day, someone will post another immigration thread and the same characters that were JUST told in this thread that the left doesn't want 100% open borders will be back in that next thread saying the left wants open borders. Some, like the guy I was talking to, have already expressed that opinion in this thread despite being told they were wrong.

If you wanted real answers about this, you shouldn't have put it in the mud pit, as it's just a cesspool filled with arguing in circles, unrelenting name calling (from both sides), and the active avoidance of any type of real facts and discussion. My suggestion, start back on page 1, and look at what the ACTUAL liberals that are commenting have to say on the subject, rather than what the conservatives are trying to put in the liberals' mouths. You'll see 2 radically different ideas.
Fringe groups aside (which aren't mainstream liberals, just as conservatives will say that white supremacists aren't mainstream conservatives), most liberals want some form of border control. Obama actually had a pretty "good" track record of being tough with border security, but you'll never hear a conservative say that, it goes against their agenda. Yes, everyone has an agenda, and everyone wants you to be on their side, so they'll continue to espouse talking points that pander to their base. Ignore the talk of "but Hillary is worse!" "but Trump is literally Satan!" talk and dig down to the basics. If you do that, you'll see that 99% of liberals don't want open borders. There's a difference in opinion as to what border security should entail, but generally, almost everyone is for it.
As for myself, I'm not sure what the full solution should look like, but I fully believe step 1 should be decriminalizing most drugs, and make it legal to purchase drugs that are proven to be helpful/not as bad as drugs that are already legal (the fact that marijuana and psilocybin are schedule I and alcohol is completely legal will forever baffle me, those are clearly less harmful than alcohol). This will disrupt the drug cartels, lessening their power, which in turn will make border towns safer, ultimately resulting in less overall immigration. Ironically, the conservatives war on drugs is directly funding one of the biggest criminal enterprises in the world, which is, in part, causing the exact issue they're trying so hard to solve (immigration). Eliminate the first issue, and the second issue, while not solved completely, will at least be lessened.

a reply to: narrator

I went for the mud-pit because I know passions are high and I'd get more of an understanding of how people feel from their arguments.
Good points about the drug cartels and legalising substances, would raise taxes as well instead of funding people smugglers.

in a nutshell ,

the new world order

.... sow ,

then reap !

I consider myself a left leaning moderate. I am all for border control, working with governements to stomp out corruption and provide opportunity for their citizens in their respective countries, increased visas for vetted people from said countries.

The way the u.s. is treating would be refugees is appaling, reports coming out of border patrol keeping familes out in the blazing sun at ports of entry for weeks at a time, separating familes thousands of miles a part, border patrol knocking down tent cities of protesters etc etc it is all a little inhumane and un-american in my opinion.

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

So Democrats, why don't you want controls on the number of people who enter your country?

You need to pay attention to what Democrats actually say rather than believe what Republicans and the alt-right say they say. That is all.

Is there a comprehensive list that's approved by the majority of the left?

originally posted by: conspiracy nut


The way the u.s. is treating would be refugees is appaling, reports coming out of border patrol keeping familes out in the blazing sun at ports of entry for weeks at a time, separating familes thousands of miles a part, border patrol knocking down tent cities of protesters etc etc it is all a little inhumane and un-american in my opinion.

wow,if that's true, its horrible. Do you have a link to these atrocities?

a reply to: conspiracy nut
Britain is doing exactly that with our border force on the ground in France and the British taxpayer funded fences at their ferry port. The UK government don't want them and they refuse to claim asylum in France because that would lose them the right to claim asylum in the UK if they can make it here.
If Britain had a land border with France we would have a big fat wall with armed police, that is absolutely guaranteed in my mind.

Democrats do NOT oppose immigration CONTROL. btw are you still beating your wife? a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

a reply to: soundguy

Beating my wife? I've never hit a woman in my life, why would you say such a crazy thing?

originally posted by: angeldoll

originally posted by: Wardaddy454

originally posted by: angeldoll
a reply to: Wardaddy454

Yes, we know. He wants people from Norway. lol.

but, but, but he's not a racist!

Which is funny, when the left points to everything in homogeneous Scandinavia as the recipe for social success.

You mean it's funny because I was quoting Trump? He's the one who said that, you know.

By the way, here's Norway's response to him:

Oh I know. Don't you see the irony yet?

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

Democracy now July 3 2018 podcast, Asylum Seekers are being kept at the Brownsville Matamoros Border in the blazing sun for up to weeks and being told the US has run out of room. We want these people to come legally and get vetted legally and are asking for them to come through legal ports of entry, they are doing that and they are being treated like animals. democracynow.org...

children are being held in New York and Chicago while their parents are in Texas etc etc how is that cost effective? mobile.nytimes.com...

ICE tearing down protesters tents amp.courier-journal.com...

Border patrol kicking over water left for migrants www.independent.co.uk... 65591.html

a reply to: conspiracy nut
Gosh that sounds terrible, but very similar to the slum shanty town camps in France where people wishing to illegally enter the UK are refusing to claim asylum there, you know, France, a safe nation.

originally posted by: AboveBoard
a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

I’m not a Democrat, but the idea the majority wants to eliminate immigration control is a lie of the right b

They want to create the false narrative that Dems want an “open border,” which is not true. Isolated individuals may want that, but the Dem majority want a secure border, just as cruelty free as possible.

You have to understand also, that the private prison business has thrown considerable money at the Republicans, and Trump himself, and these for-profit companies get paid by the government based on occupancy. This alliance coupled with Trump wanting to appear “tough” on immigration, has led to the horrible separation of children from parents at the border.

The parents detention is money in the bank for the above prisons, but they don’t take children. Other organizations who do take children are being paid by our taxes to look after these traumatized kids.

The left thinks that kind of “tough” is amoral and unnecessarily cruel. ICE is not complying with returning kids to parents despite a judge’s order.

It’s a mess. So anyway, the premise of the OP is based on a successful lie of the right, not the truth. “Open borders”
and “no border control” is not a goal of Dems.

Saw it on ABC this morning...The new plan was to put the parents in detention (which is a pretty harsh word for the hotel like conditions they get) WITH the children, but NO, not good enough...The Democrats DEMAND they be released into the population just as it was with 'catch and release'...

The adults are illegal...It's a crime to cross the border illegally...

It's determined that eighty percent of the children are NOT crossing the border with their parents but are with paid coyotes, or being smuggled as trafficked children...And what's to happen with them???

I think your response is really disingenuous...

And the statistics show that most Democrats want these children with their illegal parents sent back to Mexico...

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

Why would anyone fleeing corruption, violence, persecution seek Asylum in Mexico? There is just as much corruption, violence and persecution in Mexico as any country this latest wave of asylum-seekers are coming from.

a reply to: Iscool

Where are you getting this statistic that 80 percent are not w their parents or are being trafficked? I bet wherever you got that said the other 20 percent are criminals and rapsists.

And the latest wave is predominantly coming from Central America FYI. Trump's hard talk towards illegal immigration is working, that coupled with the fact that Mexico's economy has been improving, we have seen the net number of immigrants from Mexico go down.

if you haven't noticed Democrats are not really the most logical bunch

all of their positions start with how they feel and have no actual logic employed to verify the validity of their ideas in the real world