Why do Democrats oppose immigration control?

a reply to: TrueBrit

So youre whipping your back to amend for past mistakes from before you were even born? Sounds miserable and is the exact policy of democrats in the US. They'll never forgive themselves and need a new trendy thing to make them virtuious.

Democrats here used to be for securing the border now theyre for virtue singaling and outrage politics.

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

So you like the idea of never having to accept the consequences of our actions on a national level?

That is a fantastically irresponsible, unsustainable, and morally objectionable position to take. There is no solid ground under its foundation, just sand and sop.

This is what I really do not understand... The very people who complain most bitterly about immigration issues, are often heard to say of the poor, or of the homeless for example, that their problems are their fault, their responsibility. They refuse to acknowledge any of the holistic effects attendant to existing as part of a society, and blame every little thing on the individual, demanding individuals take responsibility for their perceived (often non-existent) failings. But the moment they are confronted with something that they, as people who vote for their representatives, are responsible for, they refuse point blank to take any responsibility at all for what their apathy has permitted.

One cannot have ones cake and eat it too. If you wish to be a part of a society which feels free to allow its MPs to make war on false pretexts, create deliberately damaged economic circumstances in other nations, and be the cause of mass migration, you HAVE to accept immigration in response, because otherwise you insist that people remain and die because YOUR country has the right to take no responsibility for its actions. That is utterly unacceptable, unreasonable and unrealistic as expectations go.

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy
a reply to: Irishhaf

Wow, so I could enter the US on an ESTA visa waiver, overstay, find a state which will give me a driver licence, then vote at your next election? That's messed up man!

Good luck getting in on an ESTA. If they sniff even the slightest thing odd, they'll detain you, search you from head to toe, treat you like a criminal - literally, with the attitude and arrogance that goes with it - and put you in a room with half a dozen other detainees from anywhere. then parade you through the airport with 2 Neanderthal thugs so that everyone thinks you're some deviant criminal being escorted out. They'll make you sit at the loading gate, till every single person has boarded the plane, and only then will they take you to the purser who will hold your tickets and passport till you are back at your country of origin.

Too much baggage? Not enough baggage? Not enough money? Sporadic work at home? anything they latch onto. You'll be asked questions you had never even anticipated, interrogated. Asked if you have used drugs, why you seem nervous, and if you don't have the answers they want, they sneer at you and make you feel guilty even if your intentions were legit.

I'll never set foot in the US again. yet if I had spoken spanish, I would have people rally and protest to let me in, I suppose. lol

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy

originally posted by: Greven

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy
I'm from the UK and here it is pretty strict. If you enter illegally or overstay your visa you get detained and processed. If you came from a safe nation before entering Britain then you get kicked back there and denied any claim for asylum. If that can't be proved then the asylum claim will continue, but fail and you get kicked out.

I'm not aware of any substantial campaigns to change the system we have, and I don't know anyone who disagrees with it, even my left leaning socialist friends. We can't have a free for all or we'd be over run. There are thousands camped in Calais (France) right now refusing to register there because they'd lose the right to claim asylum if they then make it into Britain.

The UK/France/Belgium border is also 'juxtaposed' meaning UK border force are actually on the continental side keeping people out. The French hate it, they'd just let them on the trains and ferry's, they don't want them either.

So Democrats, why don't you want controls on the number of people who enter your country?
Seems nuts to me.

Thanks in advance for any replies, this is a questioning thread so I haven't got much more comment to add other than above.

You have been mislead by Republican propaganda.

President Obama, a Democrat, deported record numbers of illegal immigrants.
Obama Has Deported More People Than Any Other President

That was interesting, heck I don't know what to believe anymore now!

There are 12 million illegal in America.
Over 3.5 percent of the population.
Line up 100 people and 3 will be illegal.

Obama started deporting them because they were becoming more of a problem.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

I'm ambivalent about it myself. I understand the need for border control and in that part I'm not against it, but total shutdown is ludicrous. It's a numbers game really. There are too many people crossing the border of all sorts of varying situations to kick them all out at once. I'd rather we focused on gang members, ACTUAL proven criminals, and repeat deportees rather than families and first time crossers. In FACT, I'd think it would be even more beneficial if from there instead of registering the family for potential deportation later, we work to get them legalized so that they are on the books. But that's a bit too radical of an idea these days.

In any case, worrying about border crossing is ridiculous. There are many many ways to get in to this country and stay illegally. And as I said, I like immigration. I really don't have a problem with illegals being in the country and trying to make a better life for themselves and their family. My only concern is their citizenship status, which allows them to be paid below minimum wage and not be entitled to workers benefits. Correcting that and giving them citizenship would make me happy.

America still has plenty to share and the mixture of different ideas is what made us the great nation we are today. We've fought this immigration battle before and the nationalists and anti-immigration folks ALWAYS lose this battle.

Another interesting read
I won't ever report an illegal to the authorities here in the UK. They do the really crappy jobs like toilet attendants in nightclubs etc, and if they have the courage to sneak here illegally with no access to UK state services, while working hard and looking over their shoulder every day I say good luck.
I've never grassed anyone up to the cops and I certainly won't grass on a fellow human trying to scrape a better life for themselves.
I wouldn't hide an illegal though unless it was a friend of mine, they take their own risk dodging 'the man'.

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

They don’t...


They oppose demonizing random immigrants who haven’t, nor do they have any desire to hurt anyone..


Why because immigrants vote 80% dem..

Why do immigrants vote 80% dem???


Because republicans have made a cottage industry out of demonizing immigrants as part of their white identity politics..

Well white identity politics in the west..

Every countries right wing does the same..


Why?

Because when your not offering g any new ideas all you can do is demogoge and demonize fabricated badguys.

a reply to: TrueBrit

Oh bore off mate and go cry to your communist leader Jeremy Corbyn.
I had # all to do with wars, I've protested every one in London and campaigned my MP's. Take the guilt if you want, but I'm not.
You are deluded if you think all those thousands camped in Calais are from nations the UK has bombed, absolutely deluded.

Anyway, this thread is about illegal immigration, not genuine asylum seekers, and the rule is you claim asylum at the first safe country. That is rarely Britain seeing as we are an island nation.
Now go cry for your poor economic migrants in your own thread, this is about illegal immigration.

a reply to: JoshuaCox

Whats funny is you think Hispanic immigrants are naturally democrats. Majority strict catholics and very conservative minded people. And white identity politics? Is that your new talking point? also, generalizing republicans like theyre all white.

I know this might blow your mind but I know quite a few republicans that aren't white. Several actually

a reply to: SummerRain

Lol, I'm excellent at bull#ting authority in a friendly calm submissive way.
I did performing arts at high school, I reckon I can fool some stupid border guard easy...would be a laugh trying as well.

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy
a reply to: SummerRain

Lol, I'm excellent at bull#ting authority in a friendly calm submissive way.
I did performing arts at high school, I reckon I can fool some stupid border guard easy...would be a laugh trying as well.

Haha I sucked at it. all up it was over 20 hours from here to LAX, flights and waiting. I had zero sleep. I was knackered. Last thing I expected as the anticipation of my final leg of the journey was about to begin, and I had finally arrived, was some ogre instantly sneering down his fat nose at me, looking for anything to have a go at.

Suffice to say, on the way back the arseholes who jostled the seat in front of me and decided to rest it back crushing my knees, didn't get much sleep either.

originally posted by: JDmOKI
a reply to: JoshuaCox

Whats funny is you think Hispanic immigrants are naturally democrats. Majority strict catholics and very conservative minded people. And white identity politics? Is that your new talking point? also, generalizing republicans like theyre all white.

I know this might blow your mind but I know quite a few republicans that aren't white. Several actually

If they couldn't focus on skin color they'd be blind. They are the real racists. Skin color is the predominant characteristic to them, everything else comes second.

a reply to: SummerRain

Lol, so what did they kick you out for?
A few mates have had bad experiences with US immigration but all got in.
I'm so tempted to overstay whenever I do visit the US, got a mate over there and the excitement factor is what appeals to me.
I've entered countries illegally before bribing border guards, the only scary bit is trying to leave the country, they can charge what they like (all your money) but the excitement is good fun.

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

They go insane about it because thats what the Two Party + MSM System trained them to do.

a reply to: JoshuaCox

They oppose demonizing random immigrants who haven’t, nor do they have any desire to hurt anyone..

Thinking, and willfully ignoring US soverign law hurts everyone,and it undermines the very foundation on which this country was built.

If they don't have to obey the law NO ONE ELSE does.

Not the church of climatology's laws.

Not the corporations.

No more gun control.

No EFFING NOTHING.

a reply to: AboveBoard

Obama tried to dismantle United States immigration policy and if you take a look at his leaked DHS memo, you'll see the strategy how Obama wanted to dismantle immigration law circumvent the Constitution through Executive Orders and enact his open borders strategy. media.washingtonpost.com... hs_draft_memo_09222010.pdf It's also a myth that he deported more, these were people turned away at the border, not illegal migrants. The numbers were inflated and the real number more like 5%. In fact all of his policies undermined ICE and Border patrol agents. There is no effective argument saying Obama was strong on illegal immigration and did not have Open Borders related policies.

Clinton ran on an Open Borders platform, promising Amnesty (a pillar of the open border concept) to millions in her first 100 days, a full path to citizenship, freezing deportations, Obamacare for illegals (her campaign promises). She openly supported the Gang of Eight Bill (with known bi-partisan establishment republicans) would have given over 10 million undocumented citizenship among other things. In a leaked privately paid Wall Street speech she said : "My dream is a hemispheric common market, with open trade and open borders, some time in the future ..." In case you didn't know Bernie was against Open borders and you know what happened to him and the DNC.

What about the future? The DNC Charmain Tom Perez, just said that Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, a Democratic Socialist is the future of the party, who is also in line with the open borders platform, wanting a "right of passage" wanting to abolish ICE, which even Bernie Sanders doesn't agree with. Democrats are drafting a bill that would abolish effectively ICE. Like I said earlier, most moderate voters DO NOT support this platform and it the party has been hijacked and going further left and and more radical, they are losing support. During this whole thing Trump has gained support of Hispanics. These aren't Republican lies, these are facts. Democrats want votes and this is their way to gain millions. This isn't a humanitarian issue, it's a political one.

originally posted by: JDmOKI
a reply to: JoshuaCox

Whats funny is you think Hispanic immigrants are naturally democrats. Majority strict catholics and very conservative minded people. And white identity politics? Is that your new talking point? also, generalizing republicans like theyre all white.

I know this might blow your mind but I know quite a few republicans that aren't white. Several actually

YES!!!!! I'm married to an Hispanic /native american woman and her entire family supports Trump for the simple reason that he supports border enforcement. They detest illegals more than anyone I've seen. They very strongly feel that the illegal people need to go back and come legally - like they did. They are very cultural but also very Patriotic people who love America, I love hanging out with them.

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

as Best I can see, it's because Trump is FOR border enforcement.

This I actually agree with. I think most of the things hard liberals oppose is mainly because of who is for it.

Which is just silly, in my opinion.

Democrats don’t want immigration control for a number of reasons. First, it helps secure a voting base in their main electoral powerhouses (ie:CA,NY). Second, it helps keep the standard low info voter talking points about competition (ex: racist, bigots, nationalist, anti-immigrant, Nazi etc). Lastly, it’s part of their standard push back from Dems disagreeing with everything.

It's all about flooding the voter rolls to counter the fact that the Dems are losing the existing voting base throughout much of the country, especially at the state level. The long term exit polling data shows that Hispanics tend to vote Democrat at around a 2-1 margin. The Democrats wager that if they can kick the door wide open and import as many of them as they can, by any means necessary, that there will eventually be a push to grant them amnesty, citizenship, and, of course, the right to vote.

It's been a good bet for them, because that's exactly what's going to happen. In the process, though, they're ripping the cultural and political balance of the country to shreds. Not that they care.

They exploit it for political theatre, whether it’s virtue-signalling or campaigning.