An evolving outlook regarding Ufology and the ETH

I saw a twitter post recently by Red Pill Junkie regarding UFOs and the ETH. I can’t remember the exact wording but it was along the lines of saying that if you’ve reached 35yrs old and still subscribed to the “nuts & bolts” hypothesis then there’s something wrong. It got me thinking and I realised that my “estimate of the situation” has evolved over time along those lines. I suspect that I’m not alone when I say that the more research and I have done into the matter, the more confused I have become.

The first book I picked up on the subject was “Above Top Secret” by Timothy Good. It contained a lot of reports on separate incidents from a variety of credible witnesses, many of whom were in the armed services or employed in other responsible occupations such as radar operators or police officers. I remember being amazed by the sheer volume of similar testimony and being absolutely convinced that advanced craft from a distant solar system were visiting us in highly advanced but solid, this dimension, metal machines. That was it, case closed, just sit back and wait for disclosure. Well, it didn’t quite pan out like that. I sometimes think that progressing through the various ufology authors is similar to the progression from soft to hard drugs. I started off with the cannabis equivalents such as the aforementioned Mr Good, Stanton Friedman and “Clear Intent” by Greenwood & Fawcett. Next was the middle ground - the amphetamines of the abduction authors such as Hopkins, Mack & Jacobs but it wasn’t long before I was on the hard stuff, the heroin of Vallee and Jung. I did take the odd detour into related side topics such as near death experiences, remote viewing, cryptozoology, crop circles and of course conspiracy (after all, they were lying to us about UFOs so why not everything else?).

Nowadays I wouldn’t even like to take a guess as to the root of the phenomena. I think people like Graham Hancock, Greg Bishop, Grant Cameron & Richard Dolan talk a lot of sense (mostly) but I also think that the waters are being muddied by fantasists & charlatans – yes Wilcock, Hoagland, Goode, Cramer, Salla, Eisenhower and Basiago, I’m talking about you. Mr Lazar, I’ll reserve judgement on you for now, DeLonge, please be careful – the big boys you’re playing with can be very mean, just ask the relatives of Paul Bennewitz. The rise of YouTube and podcasting has certainly made it easier to get information out but it has also opened the consumer up to delusional nutters and conmen. The subject is incredibly strange and complex already, it really doesn’t need the waters muddying further.

I did walk away from the subject a few years back because I was tired of being told that disclosure was imminent or that a disaster was looming. None of these predictions ever came to pass and while I never stopped believing that we were interacting with external intelligences I did stop believing in the community as a whole and I did think that the chaff totally obscured the wheat. Even that pillar of certainty, The Roswell Incident, was falling apart and with each exaggeration and lie that was exposed a little part of me died inside. However, I just can’t stay away, the subject is just too intriguing. I hope I find some clarity this time around but I won’t be holding my breath. I was just interested to see if my outlook and journey was a common one. I’m fairly new to ATS but not to the subjects talked about on here, I don't even dare to hope that I'll find answers to my questions, I just want some solace and company on my journey.

Ufo's are definitely not nuts and bolts. UFO's reveal that reality is quite different that we think it is.

A bug in the system of the 'matrix' so to speak. It's appearance is showing us that reality is more complex and we're living in a subset of possibilities. Maybe the only way to understand the UFo phenomenon is to understand reality itself.

a reply to: swimtim

I could not agree with you more! This field can become an obsession very quickly and can break your heart just as fast! Just recently i have been pulled back into this field with the Skinwalker movie coming as well as the Lazar movie at the end of the year. It seems like as soon as you start to distance yourself you find something that pulls you back in. Maybe in our lifetime, right?

a reply to: swimtim

Good thread, I agree with your sentiments.

Ive seen plenty of bizarre flying vehicles. The weirdest are the ones that vanished as soon as I pulled my phone out to record a video, as if they knew i was watching them.

Ive said this before, its one thing to observe a non sentient phenomenon, like a tornado or volcano, estimate its periodicity, and record good videos and pictures as evidence.

It is an entirely different situation when youre dealing with sentient observers that are quite likely more knowledgeable and have higher levels of awareness/observation, whether it be technological, biological, or both.

If they dont want to be known, they have a high chance of maintaining their unidentified nature, at least in the past and as it would seem to be today.

I understand the sentiment, but I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the ETH outright. I suspect the phenomenon is more complex than a Twitter post. It could be a combination of issues which is able to circumvent "nuts & bolts" issues implied by the ETH, such as the speed of light limitation. It's also far too easy to dismiss some people based on some criteria that you absolutely know without a doubt to be wrong. Lazar is a good example of this. There is no doubt whatsoever that he outright lied about his education. If you look back on Lazar posts you'll find a few of mine roundly condemning and dismissing Lazar based on this issue alone. But as George Knapp recently stated, "Bob Lazar is not the first person to pad his resume." It may be that you need to look a little more closely at what happened there. I've mellowed a bit on Lazar, especially as I have learned how "those people," i.e.: Those who run the show, operate. They don't always use conventional methods, such as in hiring protocols. You're not likely to see a job announcement asking for experience working on ET propulsion systems, for example. I can see how Lazar may have been snuck through a back door. I'm much more in a "Wait and see" mode than I used to be.

a reply to: swimtim

The brightest minds anywhere have their point of view evolving
on this topic as well; I know, because I know a few of these
famous individuals personally.

But I'd advise that anyone who says their "insider info" is from
"the government", government programs, or from the military-
industrial complex should be flat-out ignored as disinformation,
as the initial stance.. but then of course evaluate the data
to see if it has any merit whatsoever.

I admire people who can leave their particular form of UFO
religion behind.. whether it be the nuts and bolts delusion
or any of the more obnoxious variants, and to let their POV
evolve, as incoming data shows them new facets, about
which they were formerly unaware.

Kev

Based on my interpretation of my experiences, the UFO's are sentient beings.
They seem to be able to project memories of "beings".
I'm leaning towards A.I. probes.
The craft is of the creature, and the creature is of the craft.

originally posted by: skunkape23
Based on my interpretation of my experiences, the UFO's are sentient beings.
They seem to be able to project memories of "beings".
I'm leaning towards A.I. probes.
The craft is of the creature, and the creature is of the craft.

My own view has morphed a bit recently, as I came across more
information and had another "experience".

I say "nuts and bolts" delusion fairly harshly.. because of the 70
year disinformation campaign stuffed down our uninformed
throats.

But I concur... metal-like/mechanical-like and sentient are not at
ALL incongruent.

I hadn't encountered a "machine intelligene" since 1981 until recently
again.. so I too need to let my POV mature.

That's the difference between being a follower of a UFO religion and
a researcher.. if you are capable of letting your POV mature over time
and not just pound your fist and repeat the same tired old crap that
has no merit.

Kev

Like most people, I have been interested in this subject since I was around 8/9 years old. It was at this age that I started a scrap book of UFO reports, which I still have to this day.

My interest never really wavered, just a little sidetracked, I have a pretty unusual family. Most believe in the paranormal and have seen/heard ghosts. My grandfather could tell a persons future with a pack of playing cards.

I have only read a couple of books on this in my time. The best one I’ve read is by Tony Dodd...a very good read and simply done, no embellishments just the reports from a ex-policeman from North Yorkshire, England.

I don’t need the recognition from others to stand up and say that aliens are real and they are visiting us. After what I seen through the years and my current experiences, I need no validation from anyone.

I continue to see and experience things that cannot be explained in the conventional sense.

After 35 years of semi-serious study, the only thing about the UFO phenomena I can state with any certainty is that the phenomena itself exists... in some manner, that may defy what we usually think of as existing.

The phenomena has enabled me to stretch the limits of my mind, and thus the notions of it being tied to an evolutionary process may hold some water.

The myriad tangents UFO study presents has, at the least, presented me with oodles of intellectual entertainment. So a 'thanks' to the tabloid writers, crackpots, scientists and spooks of all stripes, along with the possible: ancient technology remnants, secret agents and travelers from dimensions, consciousness and/or space/time.

I still think Roswell and Lazar hold some h20, too, but that the usual explanations applied to those instances may be too simplistic.

a reply to: swimtim

Great work, If the late Anthony Bourdain was a UFO researcher I imagine that is what he would write.

I once was a believer, but then I discovered a little thing known as science and my view changed. I'm a believe it when I see it kinda guy who believes the U in UFO means Unidentified, I don't see a UFO and bellow 'they're here!!!' while selling the book rights to the highest bidder.

Ufology has turned into a snake oil operation-look at Dulce-that tale has the telltale signs of a X-files fan fiction. What upsets me is that these so called charlatans deflect attention from the dudes and dudettes who run the whole nine yards and get little respect, yet these hacks make a fortune because some dude claims he bare witnessed to a Alien battle royale in a secret underground base near Albuquerque.

a reply to: Baddogma

the notions of it being tied to an evolutionary process may hold some water.

When 'replicators', whether livings things that by definition can replicate,
or even 'memes' encounter each other, there is by definition a change in
the environment that lifeform(s) find themselves existing within.

That environment is sometimes our brains.. sometimes our bodies.. and
sometimes the 'physical world', and possibly other environments.

Even an 'enemy' or actually especially an 'enemy' can put an evolutionary
pressure on you... and either you adapt, flee or die.

Humans are currently being faced with that choice, like they always have..
but these days the selection pressures and 'adversaries' may not be
obvious.

Always nice to hear from you.

Kev

RPJ is right, ETH is just a a childhood fantasy, i have yet to see anything that proves that the phenomena is ET in origin

originally posted by: swimtim
I saw a twitter post recently by Red Pill Junkie regarding UFOs and the ETH. I can’t remember the exact wording but it was along the lines of saying that if you’ve reached 35yrs old and still subscribed to the “nuts & bolts” hypothesis then there’s something wrong. It got me thinking and I realised that my “estimate of the situation” has evolved over time along those lines. I suspect that I’m not alone when I say that the more research and I have done into the matter, the more confused I have become.

The first book I picked up on the subject was “Above Top Secret” by Timothy Good. It contained a lot of reports on separate incidents from a variety of credible witnesses, many of whom were in the armed services or employed in other responsible occupations such as radar operators or police officers. I remember being amazed by the sheer volume of similar testimony and being absolutely convinced that advanced craft from a distant solar system were visiting us in highly advanced but solid, this dimension, metal machines. That was it, case closed, just sit back and wait for disclosure. Well, it didn’t quite pan out like that. I sometimes think that progressing through the various ufology authors is similar to the progression from soft to hard drugs. I started off with the cannabis equivalents such as the aforementioned Mr Good, Stanton Friedman and “Clear Intent” by Greenwood & Fawcett. Next was the middle ground - the amphetamines of the abduction authors such as Hopkins, Mack & Jacobs but it wasn’t long before I was on the hard stuff, the heroin of Vallee and Jung. I did take the odd detour into related side topics such as near death experiences, remote viewing, cryptozoology, crop circles and of course conspiracy (after all, they were lying to us about UFOs so why not everything else?).

Nowadays I wouldn’t even like to take a guess as to the root of the phenomena. I think people like Graham Hancock, Greg Bishop, Grant Cameron & Richard Dolan talk a lot of sense (mostly) but I also think that the waters are being muddied by fantasists & charlatans – yes Wilcock, Hoagland, Goode, Cramer, Salla, Eisenhower and Basiago, I’m talking about you. Mr Lazar, I’ll reserve judgement on you for now, DeLonge, please be careful – the big boys you’re playing with can be very mean, just ask the relatives of Paul Bennewitz. The rise of YouTube and podcasting has certainly made it easier to get information out but it has also opened the consumer up to delusional nutters and conmen. The subject is incredibly strange and complex already, it really doesn’t need the waters muddying further.

I did walk away from the subject a few years back because I was tired of being told that disclosure was imminent or that a disaster was looming. None of these predictions ever came to pass and while I never stopped believing that we were interacting with external intelligences I did stop believing in the community as a whole and I did think that the chaff totally obscured the wheat. Even that pillar of certainty, The Roswell Incident, was falling apart and with each exaggeration and lie that was exposed a little part of me died inside. However, I just can’t stay away, the subject is just too intriguing. I hope I find some clarity this time around but I won’t be holding my breath. I was just interested to see if my outlook and journey was a common one. I’m fairly new to ATS but not to the subjects talked about on here, I don't even dare to hope that I'll find answers to my questions, I just want some solace and company on my journey.

If you are interested in discussing MY OPINION of the Rosetta Stone secret which will answer ALL of your questions you have inferenced in your post….I am willing to give you my guesses.....which will not take long for I feel all of your questions are identical....a one-size-fits-all answer is all you need.

originally posted by: CreationBro
a reply to: swimtim

Good thread, I agree with your sentiments.

Ive seen plenty of bizarre flying vehicles. The weirdest are the ones that vanished as soon as I pulled my phone out to record a video, as if they knew i was watching them.

Ive said this before, its one thing to observe a non sentient phenomenon, like a tornado or volcano, estimate its periodicity, and record good videos and pictures as evidence.

It is an entirely different situation when youre dealing with sentient observers that are quite likely more knowledgeable and have higher levels of awareness/observation, whether it be technological, biological, or both.

If they dont want to be known, they have a high chance of maintaining their unidentified nature, at least in the past and as it would seem to be today.



They do know you are going to take a picture....your mind sends out clear loud telepathic messages with EVERY THOUGHT....right out there for ANYONE WHO CAN RECIEVE to pick up and react to.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Back atcha.

If I may, what's new with you an unidentified a-real phenom? Whatcha seen? Spill!

Maybe that's what they call "wisdom." You get older and notice that existence isn't exactly what you've been taught by your parents or school or your church, and that everybody carries around a huge chunk of ignorance with them. Then it becomes wisdom to understand just how ignorant you are.

Then when you apply that to the subject of UFOs, you start to recognize that there are pieces that just don't fit. In our reality, unless you're a baby playing "peek-a-boo," things generally just don't vanish. They persist in reality even when you're not looking at them. Extrasensory perception and communication has no basis in modern physics. There is logical cause and effect. But with UFOs, all bets are off.

Unfortunately, we still don't have a good vocabulary built up to communicate with each other about these vague concepts, so we use fluffy terms like "dimensions," and "vibrations," which don't really capture the essence of what's going on. Cognitive and perceptual dimensions, subjective reality bubbles intertwining to create a consensus reality, etc. We look for words, but naming things doesn't get us any closer to an understanding or explanation.

So when someone asks, "what are UFOs?" it's unsatisfying to answer, "They appear to be an outlying data point related to the limited way humans perceive time." So much easier to say, "Creatures kind of like us who are flying metal ships to our planet from theirs." Maybe it's all true to a certain degree. Maybe there is no one, single convenient answer.

originally posted by: CreationBro
a reply to: swimtim

Good thread, I agree with your sentiments.

Ive seen plenty of bizarre flying vehicles. The weirdest are the ones that vanished as soon as I pulled my phone out to record a video, as if they knew i was watching them.

Ive said this before, its one thing to observe a non sentient phenomenon, like a tornado or volcano, estimate its periodicity, and record good videos and pictures as evidence.

It is an entirely different situation when youre dealing with sentient observers that are quite likely more knowledgeable and have higher levels of awareness/observation, whether it be technological, biological, or both.

If they dont want to be known, they have a high chance of maintaining their unidentified nature, at least in the past and as it would seem to be today.

I wonder why though.it kinda gives me the feeling that we are like fish in a fish tank, oblivious to the outer dimensions and our observers.

originally posted by: Alien Abduct
I wonder why though.it kinda gives me the feeling that we are like fish in a fish tank, oblivious to the outer dimensions and our observers.

After pondering this question a few years ago, I came to a "conclusion" that one of the best reasons for a higher or different intelligence to be so cagey is because us knowing about them would have a negative impact on them -- not us. Which led me to think that they're bound to us somehow -- possibly through time travel (whatever that might entail). They plant the seeds, then get out of the way because the seeds somehow become them in the future. You don't want to mess up something like that.

I don't know, though. I only see time as linear from my own perspective, so if that's a reason, it doesn't make sense to me upon closer scrutiny.