Trudeau calls Trump's trade tariffs against Canada 'insulting and unacceptable'

a reply to: carewemust

Did they?

One of the reasons for these tariffs is to decrease inferior steel from getting in. So why impose them on a. Countries that aren't producing inferior steel and b. Close allies?

originally posted by: Chadwickus
a reply to: carewemust

Did they?

One of the reasons for these tariffs is to decrease inferior steel from getting in. So why impose them on a. Countries that aren't producing inferior steel and b. Close allies?

Never heard that one I was under the impression it was to renegotiate deals. Teump kept telling us how great a negotiator he is and how bad everyone else was.

So far all I've seen him do is break deals and as of yet has not negotiated anything with anyone. So are master negotiator either needs to stop breaking deals or he needs to get to making new ones. You cant say how bad something like NAFTA is then cant come up with something better to replace it. That like a mechanic telling you your engine isn't running right then he gets under the hood and now your car doesn't run at all. You were better off when your car was running dont you think?

a reply to: dragonridr
Don´t come up with logic, the self-destructive Trumpeteers don´t like it to be disturbed while hailing their führer, that dealmaker of all dealmakers, that donald of all donalds, Louis XIV of France was nothing against Trump.

Let them and their Trump-"U"SA attack the whole world(except Israel and Saudi Arabia) from their position in the victim role, let them go down happy at least!

I'm not certain, by I have read that we export a lot of scrap to third world countries to be processed and sent back to us. This is an industry that could grow at home and help take up the slack without all the expense of digging up and processing ore into usable metals. We don't necessarily have to reboot the rust belt, although I'd like to see us be more self reliant for such important production like steel and aluminum. What about the trade deals with countries not getting the tariffs? No one is talking about who would step in to fill the gap.

originally posted by: VictorVonDoom

originally posted by: Phage

Because the exporter will sell less of their product because the price to the buyer will be higher. Basic economics. Price goes up, demand goes down.

Why does demand change? If you need steel, you buy steel. If you don't need it, you don't buy it. If you make a product with steel, you pass the cost along to the consumer. Are we buying steel we don't need?

Yeah just like oil.

Trudeau is a joke. He needs to just smile and wave and point out how we should all use politically correct nouns. He is outmatched and under-qualified to speak about any other topic.

Trudeau is the one unacceptable and insulting to a large number of Canadians. And yes, by allowing so many migrants in without proper vetting , and allowing them to stay after they have proven themselves to be ISIS members , he does put the US national security at risk.

Can hardly wait until he’s gone. He’s been nothing but a disaster for our country and certainly doesn’t speak for all Canadians.

a reply to: VictorVonDoom

Simply put, Trudeau's rhetoric is solely to repair his own image which is an unmitigated joke, both in Canada and internationally. He gets to play the nationalism card with his own people and if there's one thing Canadians enjoy more than hockey is unifying against the arrogant, always ignoring us, U.S. of A..

A good percentage of Canadians will rally around Trudeau with this move. It has zero to do with whether is good for the Canadian economy.

We are not political allies of Canada and haven't been for some time. That varies depending on which party is in power in Canada, Trudeau isn't a political ally, by any means.

The Canadians have bitched about NAFTA almost as loudly and as long as the U.S. has. The simple fact is both Canada and Mexico who had been ceded exemption from those tariffs based on the assumption of a negotiated and modified NAFTA agreement. Apparently, both nations see a change in that agreement as NOT desirable and actually benefit from it.

Canada has made it's on bed on this issue and if Trudeau goes beyond the 'being insulted' rhetoric, it could mean a start of a very serious situation. Both need each other like no other two nations I can think of.

It needs to be fixed. That fixing lies with NAFTA. All else is an avoidance of that fact.JMO, though.

originally posted by: VictorVonDoom
Of course, my comments are base on my reasoning that tariffs should have no economic effect on an exporter producing a product that's in demand for a fair price. The cost is paid by the importer. If anyone sees a flaw in that, please share.

If Trump wants to tax Americans in this manner that should piss you guys off.

So, why would an exporter consider a tariff insulting or unacceptable? How do retaliation tariffs help your economy or your people? Who is really behind this opposition to US tariffs?

“The idea that we are somehow a national security threat to the United States is, quite frankly, insulting and unacceptable,” Trudeau said.

Pretty self explanatory.

originally posted by: Metallicus
Protecting our manufacturing of strategic resources like steel is important for our domestic defense industry. Since Canada benefits from the US military by not having to have the expense of a viable military of their own I think Trudeau should either shut up or better yet say thank you.

This #ing arrogance is longstanding with some and damn insulting. We don't need a military that goes around and pisses off the world. Our military can defend this nation just fine. We have no enemies.

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: Metallicus
Protecting our manufacturing of strategic resources like steel is important for our domestic defense industry. Since Canada benefits from the US military by not having to have the expense of a viable military of their own I think Trudeau should either shut up or better yet say thank you.

This #ing arrogance is longstanding with some and damn insulting. We don't need a military that goes around and pisses off the world. Our military can defend this nation just fine. We have no enemies.

Your 'military' couldn't defend a hockey net. it's a joke. You've largely hidden behind the skirts of the U.S. military since the end of WWII. The only exception was the Korean War.

Deal with it.

originally posted by: nwtrucker

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: Metallicus
Protecting our manufacturing of strategic resources like steel is important for our domestic defense industry. Since Canada benefits from the US military by not having to have the expense of a viable military of their own I think Trudeau should either shut up or better yet say thank you.

This #ing arrogance is longstanding with some and damn insulting. We don't need a military that goes around and pisses off the world. Our military can defend this nation just fine. We have no enemies.

Your 'military' couldn't defend a hockey net. it's a joke. You've largely hidden behind the skirts of the U.S. military since the end of WWII. The only exception was the Korean War.

Deal with it.

Think so? Try it then. How many enemies do you have? The only nation I would consider a threat is the US. You think your incursions into the Middle East was tough. Turn your heads north and see what happens. It's not Canada that's asked for aid from you in the last few decades. It's the other way around.

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: nwtrucker

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: Metallicus
Protecting our manufacturing of strategic resources like steel is important for our domestic defense industry. Since Canada benefits from the US military by not having to have the expense of a viable military of their own I think Trudeau should either shut up or better yet say thank you.

This #ing arrogance is longstanding with some and damn insulting. We don't need a military that goes around and pisses off the world. Our military can defend this nation just fine. We have no enemies.

Your 'military' couldn't defend a hockey net. it's a joke. You've largely hidden behind the skirts of the U.S. military since the end of WWII. The only exception was the Korean War.

Deal with it.

Think so? Try it then. How many enemies do you have? The only nation I would consider a threat is the US. You think your incursions into the Middle East was tough. Turn your heads north and see what happens. It's not Canada that's asked for aid from you in the last few decades. It's the other way around.

I will try to cut through the Canadian blind spot and that's your knee-jerk pride. You should be proud. You should also be honest. Nothing in your post changes the FACT that your military is a joke.

originally posted by: nwtrucker
Nothing in your post changes the FACT that your military is a joke.

Then why do you guys keep asking for our help? Ours is defensive force. Not an empiric one. We don't wave our dick in other countries faces. There's the joke. And the reason you have to put so much money into your military.

originally posted by: intrepid

Think so? Try it then. How many enemies do you have? The only nation I would consider a threat is the US. You think your incursions into the Middle East was tough. Turn your heads north and see what happens. It's not Canada that's asked for aid from you in the last few decades. It's the other way around.

Try what? It would take about about an hour for the U.S. Military to completely eradicate Canada's forces...not that, thankfully, that will ever happen.

Here are some snapshots for you:

Total Military Aircraft:
Canada - 413
USA - 13,362

Fighter Aircraft:
Canada - 60
USA - 1,962

Tank Stength:
Canada - 80
USA - 5,884

Total Naval Assets:
Canada - 63
USA - 415

You get the idea...

Canada vs USA Militaries

“The idea that we are somehow a national security threat to the United States is, quite frankly, insulting and unacceptable,” Trudeau said.

That Trudeau made this statement is just another example of how clueless he really is. The US Administration did not make this decision because Canada (or the EU) are "national security threats to the United States". The decision was made to ensure that the United States has a viable Steel and Aluminum manfuacturing base..which is a national security imperative.

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: nwtrucker
Nothing in your post changes the FACT that your military is a joke.

Then why do you guys keep asking for our help? Ours is defensive force. Not an empiric one. We don't wave our dick in other countries faces. There's the joke. And the reason you have to put so much money into your military.

We don't ask you for help. We ask NATO. You contribute to NATO. Do you really think your contribution to NATO is pivotal?
While I don't fully disagree with your political deflection of the point, if really doesn't change the fact....

a reply to: mobiusmale

As I alluded to earlier a good portion of those forces are busy pissing in a lot of other people's pools. Something we just don't do. Thus not needing to put so much money into.

As to your "national security" stance, why did Trump use it? Because he couldn't pull it off through Congress. It's a tool he used and it IS insulting. To claim it's just to protect American industry is minimalistic. Where's the national security threat?

originally posted by: intrepid
a reply to: mobiusmale

As I alluded to earlier a good portion of those forces are busy pissing in a lot of other people's pools. Something we just don't do. Thus not needing to put so much money into.

As to your "national security" stance, why did Trump use it? Because he couldn't pull it off through Congress. It's a tool he used and it IS insulting. To claim it's just to protect American industry is minimalistic. Where's the national security threat?

Simply put, in a time of crisis (like a looming or actual major military conflict), the United States needs to be able to quickly ramp up its production of military hardware...think of WWII when many private sector manufacturers were required to change output to support the build up of the military (Canada did this too BTW).

If you don't have the manufacturing infrastructure in place to effect these emergency re-taskings, national security is indeed at severe risk. In this day and age, that extends to the production of electronic systems and parts...all the way back to the mining of rare earth minerals.

In 2017, flat products accounted for the largest share of U.S. steel imports at 35 percent, or 12.1 million metric tons. Semi-finished products accounted for 22 percent, or 7.5 million metric tons, of U.S. imports, followed by pipe & tube products at 22 percent (7.4 million metric tons), long products at 19 (6.5 million metric tons), and stainless products at 3 percent (1 million metric tons).

Canada accounted for the largest share of U.S. imports by source country at 17 percent...while the rankings of the top 10 source countries for U.S. imports has fluctuated over time, Canada has retained the top spot.

US Steel Imports

Part of the national security risk entails a (currently) left-leaning country like Canada (maybe along with the very-left leaning EU) deciding not to support an increase in supply for Steel and Aluminum products that are bound for the U.S. to be used for purposes that are counter to their political positions of the moment (maybe like increasing the size of the US Navy to counter China's build up, to produce smart weapons for conflicts in the Middle East or Asia, etc.).

As a superpower, the US feels the need to be able to be build whatever it needs to protect itself from hostile foreign adversaries (Iran, NKO, Russia, China, etc.), or to project power as it deems is necessary.

If Canada was smart, it would offer to make a deal with the US to guarantee supply of "strategic materials" in addition to offering to take on a larger role in Continental defence (Canada has a lot of area to protect...and is right on America's doorstep), as part of the new NAFTA (and NORAD), in order to avoid tariffs like these.

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: VictorVonDoom
Of course, my comments are base on my reasoning that tariffs should have no economic effect on an exporter producing a product that's in demand for a fair price. The cost is paid by the importer. If anyone sees a flaw in that, please share.

If Trump wants to tax Americans in this manner that should piss you guys off.

So, why would an exporter consider a tariff insulting or unacceptable? How do retaliation tariffs help your economy or your people? Who is really behind this opposition to US tariffs?

“The idea that we are somehow a national security threat to the United States is, quite frankly, insulting and unacceptable,” Trudeau said.

Pretty self explanatory.

I can appreciate the argument that maybe some Americans should be pissed. The question is, why should Canadians or any other metal exporter be pissed?

I really find it hard to believe that Mr. Trudeau honestly thinks that the US considers Canada as a security threat. It was pretty obvious to me, and I would assume Mr. Trudeau as well, that Trump simply used a convenient legal loophole to enact tariffs he couldn't get through Congress. I'm pretty sure Trump would have used a loophole designed to save the whales, protect from an alien invasion, or defend against a zombie apocalypse to enact the tariffs, if one was available. As it happened, national security was available.

------------

Will the tariffs actually have a detrimental effect on metal exporters? Well, I suppose anything is possible.

Maybe the Department of Defense will say, "Gee, we'd really like to have a new aircraft carrier, some new jets, and a few dozen new tanks. But we can't afford to import the metal with these tariffs, so we'll have to do without." Yeah, that could happen.

Maybe Wells Fargo will say, "Dammit, GEICO has a taller skyscraper than us. We should build a bigger one, but these tariffs mean we can't afford to import the steel."

Maybe Coke, Pepsi, Budweiser, and others will switch to more plastic bottles and move away from aluminum cans because of the tariffs rather than raise their prices or cut into their profits.

And maybe all these metal exporters will find that no one else in the world wants to buy the aluminum and steel for the same price Americans were paying.

All of those things are possible, but I don't think they are very likely.

It seems to me that our allies in Canada and Europe were pretty quick to pull the retaliation trigger at the mere outside possibility that they may not make the same profits off Americans. As Mr. Trudeau says in the article, Canada and the US have fought side by side on many occasions. We've been friends and allies for a long time. Is our relationship now based on who makes how much money from whom?

a reply to: mobiusmale

This is just really sad that you and the others on here who are taking this side, especially after Memorial Day, would slam our military personnel.

Go ahead and slam Trudeau - none of us like him, we hate him, and he is destroying Canada.

But, the people who have willingly enlisted to do something good, to help others, to fight at the cost of their own lives and their loved ones deserve respect. We don't go looking for wars. But we help when need be in terms of peace keeping and fighting. I have a step-son that has his entire life turned upside down by what he saw in Afghanistan as part of active fighting.

Americans always think they are the high and mighty. And I don't mean to disrespect Americans by my generalization, but come on... I actually had a customer one day, an American woman, over the phone, say to me on Remembrance Day, which is the 11/11/11, meaning it's a world wide recognition, "Canada took part too?" She was stunned that Canada helped in World War II.

Canada not only helped, they saved the Netherlands, were instrumental in D-Day, and I could go on.

You have more people, therefore more money. Good for you. Credit is due. But Canada deserves credit where credit is due and you cannot discount what Canada has done as a member of this world - we are all brothers and sisters supposedly fighting the good fight... but lately the States seems more intent on helping the bad guys even as much as the REAL people of the military (not the ones in government) are fighting the actual war.

Kudos to every human being that helps others and stamps out evil.