There is no such 'thing' as energy.

originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: strongfp

Yes, energy is a thing.

It is quantifiable, many forms of it are useful, and it mechanics well understood.

The electric meter used to generate your electric bill every month proves it's a quantifiable thing as you say, and makes both the OP and his source with it's non-scientific mystical references seem out of place on a science forum. I read a little of the source and it has enough mysticism references to make it at least a metaphysics topic rather than a science topic, and it could even be pseudoscience.

The OP starts with ""There is no such thing as matter. Everything is energy." Statements such as this are found in every modern physics textbook". I've read several modern physics textbooks and I don't remember any of them saying anything like that, so it starts with something which isn't true. Maybe the textbooks explain the subtleties of the differences between matter and energy in the context of the mass energy equivalence equation, but I've never seen that quoted remark in a physics textbook. So the post starts with a lie and goes downhill from there.

a reply to: Reverbs

An electron-volt is non-SI unit of measure of charge lost or gained by the movement of an electron across 1 volt of difference potential. That energy can be expressed in joules, and the power calculated in Watts.

No one is arguing anything except that this post is rather silly. Mass as a mathematical parameter isn't necessary to calculate energy at all except to calculate the amount of energy contained in a particular material at an already known mass.

It might be similar to how I think about numbers. You can point to a mark that is a symbol of say the number two, or hold up two fingers and say that it's two, but what you point at is just a mark or what you hold up is just some fingers, it's not the number itself.

One of the ancient Greek philosophers held the belief that there where actual numbers in another plane of existence, but in our reality numbers and math are only a concept in our minds, without objective reality. Point at "numbers" all you want, but what you point at is not a number and never will be. You can't point at a concept that only exists in your mind, it doesn't exist in reality.

a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck
In that context, the numbers on your electric bill are just numbers representing other things. Some numbers represent the amount of energy used, and some represent the amount of money you're expected to pay in exchange for that energy. The numbers are abstract as you say, but the money and energy to which they refer are not.

Frequency is involved in assembling the bonds of energy that form matter. Just like frequency assists in DNA forming shapes and organs and creating the organs in their proper place. Frequency is a part of the plasma layer we live in on this planet..

Everything is formed from energy, but how these bonds are formed that create matter from energy is hard to find info on. Maybe we do not know yet.

a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

If math was only a construct of our minds then why does it work?

The mathematics used to describe the forces and relationships of forces in the universe isn't arbitrary. Those equations accurately describe the function of our universe. Being able to measure the fundamental forces of the universe is what has made our technological society possible.


If these mathematical concepts didn't work all of what we know of modern electronic technology would be useless.

Basic physical laws ( described mathematically) like Newton's law of Gravitation, special and general relativity, electronics theory (which is my field), and others exist because they work every single time everywhere the phenomena is observed.

F=MA

If energy is not a "thing" , rockets fall over on the launch pad.

a reply to: rickymouse

Everything is formed from energy, but how these bonds are formed that create matter from energy is hard to find info on. Maybe we do not know yet.

The relationship is well known...

But the engineering wasn't. Now that technology has caught up to the theory we are able to test E=mc^2 more thoroughly.

Edit:

Or in the case of going the other way m = E/c^2

a reply to: ColinT


Do thoughts have energy? How mush mass does a thought have?

originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: chr0naut

But they have the potential to become mass don't they?
If energy itself is what makes matter and mass, then technically anything in 'our' universe can become a mass of something.

My mid can't seem to understand it right now ... guess I gotta look into it a little more and think about it.

Mass comes from the interaction between the gluon field in the space-time vacuum and individual quarks in each proton and neutron. All those subatomic connections have to be broken and reformed in order for regular matter to move and they account for 96% of mass. But once it starts moving, it keeps moving. Inertia is simply the energy required to get things moving in the first place. Somehow those quarks are able to remember the direction they are moving in.

a reply to: highvein

Even the bits on your harddisks have weight: First of all, as far as anyone in the IT industry is concerned, the answer is no. Any change in mass that would result from magnetic alignment is far too small to be measured by even the most sensitive scales in the world — we’re talking about a difference of something like 10^−14 grams.

I would guess that your thoughts, coming from physical objects (ganglia in your brain) would result in similar results. Tiny tiny tiny weightshifts, but they should be there.

originally posted by: Box of Rain

originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: projectvxn

Then why does it bring energy together?

If you mean, for example, how a the gravity of a star - or even a galaxy - can bend EM radiant energy (such as visible light), please note that it takes the combined gravity of a heck of a lot of matter to bend light even a little.

So it is true that gravity is very weak. Having said that, it is accumulative. The mass of the entire Earth creates enough gravity to keep you or a rock on the ground. However even that gravity resulting from that combined mass of the Earth can be overcome by you simply picking up that rock.

The entire gravitational pull of the Earth holding that rock down is no match for you.

Can one hold that rock, long enough, until the forces of gravity suside?

Which will relent first?

originally posted by: ManFromEurope
a reply to: highvein

Even the bits on your harddisks have weight: First of all, as far as anyone in the IT industry is concerned, the answer is no. Any change in mass that would result from magnetic alignment is far too small to be measured by even the most sensitive scales in the world — we’re talking about a difference of something like 10^−14 grams.

I would guess that your thoughts, coming from physical objects (ganglia in your brain) would result in similar results. Tiny tiny tiny weightshifts, but they should be there.

Interesting. Even the images that we see in our minds have weight?

ETA. And the matter that brings about those images? Is that matter not already there before the images are seen in our minds?

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest
The quark.

a reply to: ColinT

You are wrong.

There is such a 'thing' as energy. It is actually a special thing, a conserved property of a system.

And energy conservation is an expression of time translation symmetry, means that physics do not change over time, which is why you see it used so much in physics.

originally posted by: NJE777
a reply to: BELIEVERpriest
The quark.

Strange?

originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

If math was only a construct of our minds then why does it work?

The mathematics used to describe the forces and relationships of forces in the universe isn't arbitrary. Those equations accurately describe the function of our universe. Being able to measure the fundamental forces of the universe is what has made our technological society possible.


If these mathematical concepts didn't work all of what we know of modern electronic technology would be useless.

Basic physical laws ( described mathematically) like Newton's law of Gravitation, special and general relativity, electronics theory (which is my field), and others exist because they work every single time everywhere the phenomena is observed.

I agree of course, but I should have added the disclaimer that the concept of math and numbers is a useful tool, a language so to speak, useful when dealing with the objective reality. IMO though, when you boil it all down, everything is a concept of our minds, a subjective experience outside of "physical" reality, whatever that might really be.

a reply to: chr0naut

I thought you could slow down photons by firing them via lazer beam into a vacuum chamber with cooled gas
that it changes teh properties of photons !

slowing photons

Consider the case of the mass defect, indicating that at least a portion of the mass of an atom is contributed by the binding energy of the nucleus. So do we need to describe two different classes of mass as that which is posessed by energy and that which is possessed by matter? I'm open to it, but I think the answer would turn out to be that the phenomenon of mass is caused by a common agent: energy.

originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: rickymouse

Everything is formed from energy, but how these bonds are formed that create matter from energy is hard to find info on. Maybe we do not know yet.

The relationship is well known...

But the engineering wasn't. Now that technology has caught up to the theory we are able to test E=mc^2 more thoroughly.

Edit:

Or in the case of going the other way m = E/c^2

Wow, it's been eighty four years since einstein figured that out. Einstein died about five months before I was born, I would have liked to have met the guy or at least been alive when he was around.