Ezekiel;- Prophecies against the nations

In the ninth year of his exile, in the tenth month, Ezekiel learned that the siege of Jerusalem had been opened (ch24).
In the twelfth year of his exile, in the tenth month, he learned that the siege of Jerusalem had come to a close (ch33)
Nearly all his prophecies against other nations are collected (and most of them were delivered) in the space between those two events.
The time when Israel is about to face judgement is also the time to redress the balance by expressing God’s judgement on the enemies of Israel.

The first targets are the Ammonites (ch25 vv1-7) and the Moabites (vv8-11).
These people have been harassing the eastern tribes of Israel for generations.
When Jehoiakim rebelled against Nebuchadnezzar, they joined the Syrians and Chaldeans in going up against Judah to destroy it (2 Kings ch24 v2). The king of Babylon may have incited these local enemies to begin their attacks even before he brought up his main army.
It’s likely that he will have made the same use of them in the current siege. In any case, they will have been hoping to exploit the later weakness of Judah once the kingdom had been defeated.

According to Ezekiel, God is taking action against the Ammonites “because you said Aha! Over my sanctuary when it was profaned and over the house of Judah when it went into exile… Because you have clapped your hands and stamped your feet and rejoiced with all the malice within you against the land of Israel”.
Therefore the Lord will “hand you over to the people of the East… as spoil to the nations”, and will make desolate their own land.
Similarly “because Moab said ‘Behold the house of Judah is like all the other nations’”, they will be treated like the Ammonites.

The next charges are directed against Edom (vv12-14) and the Philistines (vv15-17), both guilty of “acting revengefully” and “with malice of heart” in response to the downfall of Judah.
Therefore the Lord will exercise his own vengeance against him.

A more substantial diatribe is directed against Tyre (chs26-28).
Their initial crime is that Tyre said about Jerusalem “Aha, the gate of the peoples is broken, it has swung open to me; I shall be replenished now that she is laid waste” (ch26 v2).
This prophecy is dated in the eleventh year of the exile; after the fall of Jerusalem, but before the news of the fall had reached the exiles in Babylon.
The nature of this “replenishment” is explained in a passage in Joel;
“For you have taken my silver and gold and have carried my rich treasures into your temples.
You have sold the people of Judah and Jerusalem to the Greeks, removing them far from their own border” (Joel ch3 vv5-6).

Apart from that, the fundamental complaint about Tyre is the city’s pride.
The city has said “I am perfect in beauty”, a complacent assessment based on her trading wealth.
The prince of Tyre, as representative of the city, is even prouder (ch28).
“Because your heart is proud, and you have said ‘I am a god, I sit in the seat of the gods, in the heart of the seas”.
Again, Ezekiel says about the king of Tyre “You were in Eden, the garden of God…
With an anointed guardian cherub I placed you; you were on the holy mountain of God…
You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created, until iniquity was found in you”.
I believe Ezekiel is here reflecting on the close relationship which bound up the king of Tyre together with kings David and Solomon
But then “in the abundance of your trade you were filled with violence, and you sinned… you corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendour”.

Since they rejoiced over the downfall of Jerusalem, the Lord will bring up “many nations” against them, who will break down their own city. A little later Ezekiel hopefully specifies Nebuchadnezzar as the agent. In fact this prophecy was not fulfilled until Alexander the great came along.
The city will be laid waste. Her riches will be spoiled. Consequently her trade will come to an end (as described in a long ironic passage of “lamentation”).
The rulers of the sea will be swallowed up in the sea.
The Tyre that was “on the mountain of God” will now be “thrust down into the Pit”.

Finally, at least seven different words of the Lord are directed against Egypt (chs29-32).
Egypt has been the bane of Israel ever since the time of Moses.
After the exodus experience itself, there were incursions like the raid of Pharaoh Shishak (1 Kings ch14 vv25-26).
The most bitter recent grievance was the battle of Megiddo, in which King Josiah was killed (2 Kings ch23 v29).

Egypt was also the indirect cause of the Babylonian siege of Jerusalem, because Egyptian power and probably Egyptian diplomacy were enticing the kings of Judah into the belief that Babylon could be resisted. This was an illusion, as events would prove. This was perhaps the most important reason for Ezekiel’s animosity towards them;
“Because you have been a staff of reed to the house of Israel; when they grasped you with the hand, you broke, and tore off all their shoulders; and when they leaned upon you, you broke, and made all their loins to shake” (ch29 vv6-7).

Apart from that, the major charge against Egypt is their pride of power;
“Behold, I am against you, Pharaoh king of Egypt, the great dragon that lies in the midst of his streams, that says ‘My Nile is my own, I made it’”.
And again; “You consider yourself a lion among the nations, but you are like a dragon in the seas; you burst forth in your rivers, trouble the waters with your feet, and foul their rivers”.
Egypt is described as a great tree, like one of the cedars of Lebanon, nourished by waters;
“Because it towered high and set its top among the clouds, and its heart was proud of its height, I will give it into the hand of a mighty one of the nations”.

The power of the sword will turn the land of Egypt into a desolation.
As before, Ezekiel hopefully names Nebuchadnezzar as the agent. As before, Nebuchadnezzar fails to take up the offer, and the invasion of Egypt is finally accomplished by the Persians.
This will be “the Day of the Lord” for them.
“They will never again rule over the nations” (and they never did).
Their kingdom, as represented by Pharaoh, will “go down to Sheol” and meet there the other dead kingdoms, like Assyria.

Ezekiel does not, incidentally, have any prophecies against Babylon. Babylon were only acting as God’s agents, so they don’t count as enemies.

All these warnings of judgement against the nations are meant to be in contrast with his promises to Israel;
“When I gather the house of Israel from the peoples among whom they are scattered, and manifest my holiness to them in the sight of the nations, there they shall dwell in their own land which I gave to their father Jacob… They shall dwell securely when I execute judgements upon all their neighbours who have treated them with contempt.
Then they shall know that I am the Lord their God” (ch28 vv25-26).

These prophecies were also covered in a series of threads about similar prophecies across the Old Testament, organised by nation'

Egypt
Edom Also including Ammonites and Moabites.
Tyre Also including Philistines.

Prophecy as a joint enterprise

There is a story in Acts which may throw some light, incidentally, on the way that Biblical prophecy works.

Paul was on his way back to Jerusalem. We know from his letters that he was delivering the money collected in the Greek-speaking churches for the benefit of “the poor”. One of the stops in his journey was the house of Philip the evangelist in Caesarea.
“While we were staying for some days, a prophet named Agabus came down from Judea. And coming to us he took Paul’s girdle and bound his own feet and hands, and said ‘Thus says the Holy Spirit; So shall the Jews at Jerusalem bind the man who owns this girdle and deliver him into the hands of the Gentiles’” (Acts ch21 vv10-11).

The interesting point about this prophecy is that the details are slightly inaccurate, as compared with what happens later in the chapter. It is true that Paul ends up “in the hands of the Gentiles”, but the Jews themselves do not arrest him and hand him over in the way described.
The story we read is that the Romans take him into “protective custody”, in the first instance, when he is attacked by the mob outside the Temple.
The inaccuracy is remarkable precisely because Luke takes no notice of it. He does not think it matters. He simply reports the flawed message, taking it at face value as coming from a prophet.

One way of accounting for the discrepancy would be to suppose that God was not responsible for the detail of the way the prophecy was reported.
Instead, he supplied the basic thought in the mind of Agabus, which the prophet then expressed in his own way.
The basic thought would be something like “Paul in Roman power- Jews at fault”.
The error creeps in when Agabus translates that thought into words, influenced and led astray by his knowledge of what happened in the arrest of Jesus.
So this is prophecy as a joint enterprise, combining the contributions of God and man.

When we look at the prophetic books of the Old Testament, it is evident that every prophet is speaking in his own “voice”. Each man has his own, individual, way of saying things.
This gives a reason for supposing that Old Testament prophecy in general is a “joint enterprise”, in which God supplies the broad ideas to be communicated, and the prophet himself then puts them into his own words.

In the case of the “prophecies against the nations”, the basic message would be God’s promise that the named adversaries of God’s people would be overcome. In the long-term, at least, they would not be allowed to prevail.

When the prophet is expressing this promise in words, it is characteristic that he adds more detail.
It may be taken for granted that the downfall will come through war. That is the most effective way of achieving the desired result. It would be assumed by the prophet as the “normal” and most probable cause.
Knowing the current political scene, the prophet may also venture to name the other nation’s most prominent adversary as the immediate cause of their destruction.
Since “everybody knows” what happens in war, the description of the forthcoming war may be fleshed out in detail, with full confidence that the description won’t be far off the mark.
For example, the walls of a city will be attacked, in war, by the soldiers of a besieging army.
The walls and buildings of a conquered city will probably be destroyed.
A defeated population will be mistreated to the point of captivity or death.
All these details are predictable, if war is carried to a successful conclusion, so they are included in the message as delivered by the prophet.

Another characteristic of this form of prophecy is that the promise will be expressed emphatically.
The details of the enemy’s downfall may be amplified with relish, as an assurance to the prophet’s beleaguered people.
The need for emphasis leads the prophet into hyperbole. He cannot contemplate half-measures. The destruction of the adversary’s power must be total. If it is a city, the city will be depopulated and occupied only by wild beasts, and this depopulation may last “for ever”.

In modern times, the wording of these prophecies may be open to criticism.
For example, some of the projected details may be inaccurate, as in the story of Agabus.
One famous instance is the assumption that Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon would be the nemesis of Tyre and Egypt, which turned out to be a wrong guess. In the case of Tyre, Nebuchadnezzar himself was only the second guess, as Isaiah admits (ch23 v18).
Again, there may be objections to the tone of exultation which frequently accompanies the description of the other party’s downfall, expressing a very human sense of relief that a dangerous enemy is being removed from the scene.

If my theory is correct, though, criticism of the detailed wording of prophecy is criticism of the human contribution to the joint enterprise.

I’ve made use of the “joint enterprise” concept on other occasions.
When I was considering the “social laws” of the Pentateuch, I worked on the premise that these laws had a mixed origin. They rested on a stratum of human law, but they were modified human law. In order to understand them, it was necessary to discern the difference between the human contribution and the effects of God’s influence.
In fact everything that God’s people do is arguably based on a similar combination of God’s influence and human fallibility. That should certainly be evident in the history of the church.
Our task, therefore, is to try to disentangle these two threads, in order to identify more clearly which elements in the tradition have permanent value.

“When I gather the house of Israel from the peoples among whom they are scattered, and manifest my holiness to them in the sight of the nations, there they shall dwell in their own land which I gave to their father Jacob… They shall dwell securely when I execute judgements upon all their neighbours who have treated them with contempt.
Then they shall know that I am the Lord their God”

This is the foundation of Israel.

a reply to: DISRAELI

If instead of this, they made a list of people the Jews DON'T want to destroy. That would be a very short book.

Do you think they are the same people living in those regions today? Maybe this is why we seem to have to go to war with every country over here. According to this, I guess Egypt will be next.

a reply to: toms54
They were all people who wanted to destroy the Jews, so this was about protection. Yes, today's Israel would see an analogy with their current situation.

"War with Egypt" has been covered in modern times already. But the apparent continuity comes from the geography, not from the people.

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: toms54
They were all people who wanted to destroy the Jews, so this was about protection. Yes, today's Israel would see an analogy with their current situation.

"War with Egypt" has been covered in modern times already. But the apparent continuity comes from the geography, not from the people.

And nothing is changed today either. Everywhere they go people are hostile, for 3000 years. Perhaps they should reflect upon this.

That's all from me on this topic.

in re; Battle of Megiddo;
Egypt army was heading East to help the Assyrians against the Babylonians. Joash took his army up to stop them and was defeated.
don't understand the motivation. Assyrians were a bad bunch.
don't think the Bible says whether Joash did this on his own, or was called to it.

interestingly, Egypt went from being a major power to a subject state, to Babylon, Persia, Greece, and ultimately Rome, and to this day remains a non-factor. just as Ezekiel prophesied.

originally posted by: toms54

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: toms54
They were all people who wanted to destroy the Jews, so this was about protection. Yes, today's Israel would see an analogy with their current situation.

"War with Egypt" has been covered in modern times already. But the apparent continuity comes from the geography, not from the people.

And nothing is changed today either. Everywhere they go people are hostile, for 3000 years. Perhaps they should reflect upon this.

That's all from me on this topic.

cuz the Jews are God's special people, and the devil always sends his children to torment them.

look at the bad guys. nazis, soviets, klansmen, skinheads, islamofascists. none of them good guys.

evidence of the spiritual warfare in this world.

originally posted by: toms54
a reply to: DISRAELI

If instead of this, they made a list of people the Jews DON'T want to destroy. That would be a very short book.

Do you think they are the same people living in those regions today? Maybe this is why we seem to have to go to war with every country over here. According to this, I guess Egypt will be next.

self defense bro.

yes, today's arabs are the descendants of the Edomites/Moabites/Ammonites/Midianites. interestingly the Bible mentions that the Midianites wore crescent emblems.

btw, they fought several wars against Egypt (Nassar era) and won. under Sadat Egypt and Israel made peace. which is why the haters assassinated him (Sadat).

a reply to: ElGoobero
I don't understand the motive for Megiddo either (it was Josiah, though). I've written a thread on the battle, and confessed being baffled.
It looks as though he got tempted by a version of "throw yourself down from this rock". He trusted in God's power to help in battle, and forgot that it wouldn't apply if he was fighting without permission.

originally posted by: ElGoobero

originally posted by: toms54

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: toms54
They were all people who wanted to destroy the Jews, so this was about protection. Yes, today's Israel would see an analogy with their current situation.

"War with Egypt" has been covered in modern times already. But the apparent continuity comes from the geography, not from the people.

And nothing is changed today either. Everywhere they go people are hostile, for 3000 years. Perhaps they should reflect upon this.

That's all from me on this topic.

cuz the Jews are God's special people, and the devil always sends his children to torment them.

look at the bad guys. nazis, soviets, klansmen, skinheads, islamofascists. none of them good guys.

evidence of the spiritual warfare in this world.

Are the Jews really God's special people? Or is it Israel of which Judah is only one tribe? If the other tribes scattered to Assyria and beyond is that promise now invalid? Apparently seemed to hold for the Jews when they were scattered to Babylon and later the diaspora. But not for northern Israel in spite of the Bible saying over and over the lost people will reemerge. I would think that blessing should be spread throughout the world rather than only residing with the Jews.

originally posted by: ElGoobero

originally posted by: toms54
a reply to: DISRAELI

If instead of this, they made a list of people the Jews DON'T want to destroy. That would be a very short book.

Do you think they are the same people living in those regions today? Maybe this is why we seem to have to go to war with every country over here. According to this, I guess Egypt will be next.

self defense bro.

yes, today's arabs are the descendants of the Edomites/Moabites/Ammonites/Midianites. interestingly the Bible mentions that the Midianites wore crescent emblems.

btw, they fought several wars against Egypt (Nassar era) and won. under Sadat Egypt and Israel made peace. which is why the haters assassinated him (Sadat).

How can we represent he situation in the middle east today as some ancient blood feud prophesied by Ezekiel? It doesn't fit.

According to Ezekiel, God is taking action against the Ammonites “because you said Aha! Over my sanctuary when it was profaned and over the house of Judah when it went into exile… Because you have clapped your hands and stamped your feet and rejoiced with all the malice within you against the land of Israel”. Therefore the Lord will “hand you over to the people of the East… as spoil to the nations”, and will make desolate their own land. Similarly “because Moab said ‘Behold the house of Judah is like all the other nations’”, they will be treated like the Ammonites.

From the east. Alexander was from the west. America far west. This could only refer to the Islamic conquest. But even then the Arabs were not the mortal enemies of the Jew. They are brothers. Wasn't Ishmael present when Abraham was buried? All through history they have remained "frenemies." They fought for the Arabs during the crusades and Constantinople. They were tolerated by Islamics in Moorish Spain and the Ottoman Empire better than the Christians were.

So the present conditions can't be attributed to Ezekiel no matter what anyone tries to allege today. It is a more modern problem.

a reply to: toms54

have you ever read

Luke 17:26-29 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.

While the context of Luke was about the last days we need to look at it in the context of these last days. There were many things happening in Noah's day only a few are mentioned by Jesus Christ. But when we go back to the days of Noe and look what the scriptures are showing us additional information about that time.

Genesis 6:1-12 ¶ And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years. There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. . . . . . The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence. And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.

1) The Sons of God start showing up. Today we would say they are Aliens from another Galaxy. the Last 80 years we have seen an uptick in the amount of UFO activity and a same uptick in the disappearance of Children all around the world 75% of those children are GIRLS. Some believe they are used for stem cell research by these aliens to make bodies for themselves.
2) Giants and men of renown. In the last 100 years we have seen the increase of the number of Tall humans. IN the 70's we had hulk Hogan, one of the biggest men today. Then recently we had a picture of Old Hulk standing next to this generation of WWE wrestlers. The one he had standing next to him dwarfed Hogan by one foot tall and wider than he ever was. Basketball players are discovered around the world 6.5 ft to 7.5 ft tall more and more extremely tall people are being born. Many of them today are men of renown, that is they are well known for their, Duane Johnson comes to mind, and there are other men of renown in the Media and Television.
3) Wickedness of man is great in the Earth as we see terrible shootings, and the Moral compass of our TV Stars as we have seen of late. This is both mental and spiritual wickedness and it is not just here in the US it is around the world.
4) Evil imaginations, the creation of things in the heart of man against other men and against the one true God and the Word, Jesus Christ. Just look at the filthy language many speak today, the filth on TV, the internet, and look at how masses of people are gathered against a person hurling endless attacks n a man not even found to be as the MSM and the Left imagine this person to be. Yes, about Trump, trump is convicted by the MSM and the Left in the hearts of people when no proof of misdoing has been done.
5) the Earth was corrupt we see this today, the earth does not produce the fruit of the land as it once did, pollution of the land and the sea with Chemicals that were meant to help increase the yield have in fact caused greater harm tot he earth. Violent storms as never recorded in the past. Larger areas of drought as deserts expand and there is less and less drinking water. the earth is truly corrupt.
6) Violence filled the earth, tell me you all don't see that. We have more wars today and since the founding of the UN that all recorded wars before the forming of the UN. Funny how an organization that was supposed to bring peace has actually brought in more wars than all time before them. Not a day goes by and we don't hear of some VIOLENT acts that are perpetrated against innocent men, women and children.
7) Even the chosen people of Israel have forsaken their God. Christian Churches teach for the preserved word of God corruptions of Scriptures where man has become god in God's stead to judge God's word rather than live by it. Changing any verse that reveals their sin and things they don't like or understand to allow them to continue in their or change it to make others follow their pernicious ways.

Genesis 6:1-12 is a good description of our world today and this is what it will be like when the Lord Jesus will return. But his return is after the Great Tribulation that is to come on all unbelieving men. This world has very little time left, for God's wrath is about to fall on all unbelieving Jews and Gentiles.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Do you think this is what Ezekiel is about? Usually today we hear about the last war being an invasion from Russia and China.

originally posted by: toms54

originally posted by: ElGoobero

originally posted by: toms54
a reply to: DISRAELI

If instead of this, they made a list of people the Jews DON'T want to destroy. That would be a very short book.

Do you think they are the same people living in those regions today? Maybe this is why we seem to have to go to war with every country over here. According to this, I guess Egypt will be next.

self defense bro.

yes, today's arabs are the descendants of the Edomites/Moabites/Ammonites/Midianites. interestingly the Bible mentions that the Midianites wore crescent emblems.

btw, they fought several wars against Egypt (Nassar era) and won. under Sadat Egypt and Israel made peace. which is why the haters assassinated him (Sadat).

How can we represent he situation in the middle east today as some ancient blood feud prophesied by Ezekiel? It doesn't fit.

According to Ezekiel, God is taking action against the Ammonites “because you said Aha! Over my sanctuary when it was profaned and over the house of Judah when it went into exile… Because you have clapped your hands and stamped your feet and rejoiced with all the malice within you against the land of Israel”. Therefore the Lord will “hand you over to the people of the East… as spoil to the nations”, and will make desolate their own land. Similarly “because Moab said ‘Behold the house of Judah is like all the other nations’”, they will be treated like the Ammonites.

From the east. Alexander was from the west. America far west. This could only refer to the Islamic conquest. But even then the Arabs were not the mortal enemies of the Jew. They are brothers. Wasn't Ishmael present when Abraham was buried? All through history they have remained "frenemies." They fought for the Arabs during the crusades and Constantinople. They were tolerated by Islamics in Moorish Spain and the Ottoman Empire better than the Christians were.

So the present conditions can't be attributed to Ezekiel no matter what anyone tries to allege today. It is a more modern problem.

the children of Israel were attacked and harassed by the Edomites and the Ishmaelites (their brothers) and the Moabites and Ammonites (their cousins). the modern Arabs, as mentioned, are their descendants. related; fellow 'Semites'; but enemies nonetheless.

a reply to: toms54

Those left behind will believe a great delusion, a lie if you will. At the time the Aliens show up on the earth the MSM will tell people that the Christians were removed to reeducate them of their Monotheistic views and teach them Polytheism (see the teaching of the church Universal and Triumphant 1980's), however Israel and the Moslem will still be here, two supposed monotheistic religions. But most people wont even question it, those that do are they that are saved a great number innumerable as seen in

Re 7:9-10 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

Also see Church Universal and Triumphant answer of the UFO's. they teach that the UFO's are the manifestations of vessels of Knowledge which just before they enter into the vortexes that take them into the great halls of knowledge which are beneath the Earth. Enlightened ones can get into them by accessing their spirit guides and enter through Astral Travel via this vortexes and learn to become, an ascended master.

Genesis 3:5c. . . .Ye shall be as gods. . . .

originally posted by: ElGoobero

originally posted by: toms54

originally posted by: ElGoobero

originally posted by: toms54
a reply to: DISRAELI

If instead of this, they made a list of people the Jews DON'T want to destroy. That would be a very short book.

Do you think they are the same people living in those regions today? Maybe this is why we seem to have to go to war with every country over here. According to this, I guess Egypt will be next.

self defense bro.

yes, today's arabs are the descendants of the Edomites/Moabites/Ammonites/Midianites. interestingly the Bible mentions that the Midianites wore crescent emblems.

btw, they fought several wars against Egypt (Nassar era) and won. under Sadat Egypt and Israel made peace. which is why the haters assassinated him (Sadat).

How can we represent he situation in the middle east today as some ancient blood feud prophesied by Ezekiel? It doesn't fit.

According to Ezekiel, God is taking action against the Ammonites “because you said Aha! Over my sanctuary when it was profaned and over the house of Judah when it went into exile… Because you have clapped your hands and stamped your feet and rejoiced with all the malice within you against the land of Israel”. Therefore the Lord will “hand you over to the people of the East… as spoil to the nations”, and will make desolate their own land. Similarly “because Moab said ‘Behold the house of Judah is like all the other nations’”, they will be treated like the Ammonites.

From the east. Alexander was from the west. America far west. This could only refer to the Islamic conquest. But even then the Arabs were not the mortal enemies of the Jew. They are brothers. Wasn't Ishmael present when Abraham was buried? All through history they have remained "frenemies." They fought for the Arabs during the crusades and Constantinople. They were tolerated by Islamics in Moorish Spain and the Ottoman Empire better than the Christians were.

So the present conditions can't be attributed to Ezekiel no matter what anyone tries to allege today. It is a more modern problem.

the children of Israel were attacked and harassed by the Edomites and the Ishmaelites (their brothers) and the Moabites and Ammonites (their cousins). the modern Arabs, as mentioned, are their descendants. related; fellow 'Semites'; but enemies nonetheless.

I maintain that there isn't all that much ancient hostility. They have gotten along as well as those two groups can get along with anyone. All the modern hostilities are due to the (relatively) recent formation of the state of Israel. Once I asked an Iraqi that I was working with: "What is it with you guys and the Jews?" His answer: "They took our land."

originally posted by: toms54

originally posted by: ElGoobero

originally posted by: toms54

originally posted by: ElGoobero

originally posted by: toms54
a reply to: DISRAELI

If instead of this, they made a list of people the Jews DON'T want to destroy. That would be a very short book.

Do you think they are the same people living in those regions today? Maybe this is why we seem to have to go to war with every country over here. According to this, I guess Egypt will be next.

self defense bro.

yes, today's arabs are the descendants of the Edomites/Moabites/Ammonites/Midianites. interestingly the Bible mentions that the Midianites wore crescent emblems.

btw, they fought several wars against Egypt (Nassar era) and won. under Sadat Egypt and Israel made peace. which is why the haters assassinated him (Sadat).

How can we represent he situation in the middle east today as some ancient blood feud prophesied by Ezekiel? It doesn't fit.

According to Ezekiel, God is taking action against the Ammonites “because you said Aha! Over my sanctuary when it was profaned and over the house of Judah when it went into exile… Because you have clapped your hands and stamped your feet and rejoiced with all the malice within you against the land of Israel”. Therefore the Lord will “hand you over to the people of the East… as spoil to the nations”, and will make desolate their own land. Similarly “because Moab said ‘Behold the house of Judah is like all the other nations’”, they will be treated like the Ammonites.

From the east. Alexander was from the west. America far west. This could only refer to the Islamic conquest. But even then the Arabs were not the mortal enemies of the Jew. They are brothers. Wasn't Ishmael present when Abraham was buried? All through history they have remained "frenemies." They fought for the Arabs during the crusades and Constantinople. They were tolerated by Islamics in Moorish Spain and the Ottoman Empire better than the Christians were.

So the present conditions can't be attributed to Ezekiel no matter what anyone tries to allege today. It is a more modern problem.

the children of Israel were attacked and harassed by the Edomites and the Ishmaelites (their brothers) and the Moabites and Ammonites (their cousins). the modern Arabs, as mentioned, are their descendants. related; fellow 'Semites'; but enemies nonetheless.

I maintain that there isn't all that much ancient hostility. They have gotten along as well as those two groups can get along with anyone. All the modern hostilities are due to the (relatively) recent formation of the state of Israel. Once I asked an Iraqi that I was working with: "What is it with you guys and the Jews?" His answer: "They took our land."

Palestine was part of the Brit Empire. what is now Israel was poorly populated and had a significant Jewish presence. When the Israel state was formed native non-Jews were allowed to stay (many did and their descendants are living very well).
it would be more accurate to say that the Brits 'took' the land after defeating the Ottomans in WWI.

the Jews and their neighbors lived in peace mostly when Israel had a big army too strong to fight. Israel's neighbors abused them off and on throughout the OT era.

originally posted by: ElGoobero

originally posted by: toms54

originally posted by: ElGoobero

originally posted by: toms54

originally posted by: ElGoobero

originally posted by: toms54
a reply to: DISRAELI

If instead of this, they made a list of people the Jews DON'T want to destroy. That would be a very short book.

Do you think they are the same people living in those regions today? Maybe this is why we seem to have to go to war with every country over here. According to this, I guess Egypt will be next.

self defense bro.

yes, today's arabs are the descendants of the Edomites/Moabites/Ammonites/Midianites. interestingly the Bible mentions that the Midianites wore crescent emblems.

btw, they fought several wars against Egypt (Nassar era) and won. under Sadat Egypt and Israel made peace. which is why the haters assassinated him (Sadat).

How can we represent he situation in the middle east today as some ancient blood feud prophesied by Ezekiel? It doesn't fit.

According to Ezekiel, God is taking action against the Ammonites “because you said Aha! Over my sanctuary when it was profaned and over the house of Judah when it went into exile… Because you have clapped your hands and stamped your feet and rejoiced with all the malice within you against the land of Israel”. Therefore the Lord will “hand you over to the people of the East… as spoil to the nations”, and will make desolate their own land. Similarly “because Moab said ‘Behold the house of Judah is like all the other nations’”, they will be treated like the Ammonites.

From the east. Alexander was from the west. America far west. This could only refer to the Islamic conquest. But even then the Arabs were not the mortal enemies of the Jew. They are brothers. Wasn't Ishmael present when Abraham was buried? All through history they have remained "frenemies." They fought for the Arabs during the crusades and Constantinople. They were tolerated by Islamics in Moorish Spain and the Ottoman Empire better than the Christians were.

So the present conditions can't be attributed to Ezekiel no matter what anyone tries to allege today. It is a more modern problem.

the children of Israel were attacked and harassed by the Edomites and the Ishmaelites (their brothers) and the Moabites and Ammonites (their cousins). the modern Arabs, as mentioned, are their descendants. related; fellow 'Semites'; but enemies nonetheless.

I maintain that there isn't all that much ancient hostility. They have gotten along as well as those two groups can get along with anyone. All the modern hostilities are due to the (relatively) recent formation of the state of Israel. Once I asked an Iraqi that I was working with: "What is it with you guys and the Jews?" His answer: "They took our land."

Palestine was part of the Brit Empire. what is now Israel was poorly populated and had a significant Jewish presence. When the Israel state was formed native non-Jews were allowed to stay (many did and their descendants are living very well).
it would be more accurate to say that the Brits 'took' the land after defeating the Ottomans in WWI.

the Jews and their neighbors lived in peace mostly when Israel had a big army too strong to fight. Israel's neighbors abused them off and on throughout the OT era.

I know the history. Be as accurate as you want. What I said was how the Arabs see it.

England took the land then gave it to the Jews because they asked for it during WWI.