Harley-Davidson cut jobs, repurchased shares after tax cut

originally posted by: toysforadults
a reply to: the2ofusr1

please do a point by point presentation with actual data how higher taxes would have made that business more profitable?

holy crap

everybody needs to keep this in mind while voting this year, these people want to run your government and part of their party platform is to literally raise taxes

do not vote blue

That's not the point here. That wasn't the option nor is that the argument.
Trump tax breaks were supposed to save business'- not converted to shareholder dividends.
You seriously just set-up a hypothetical, fake argument and then answered it yourself and then used that to say "dont vote blue"
This is why the world doesn't trust conservatives. This is why the world calls everything that comes out of a conservatives mouth "fake news" - this is literally a perfect example of the alternate reality that you people try to push.
It's just about sickening seeing your horse# post for what it is, knowing that people fall for this double talk, smoke in mirrors nonsense.

originally posted by: Edumakated
Harley has to cut costs... their bikes are super expensive and younger riders are looking for cheaper bikes. Harley has failed to figure out what the market is really looking for product mix wise beyond their aging core demographic of aging dentists who like pirate cosplay.

Seriously, who doesn't like Pirate cosplay?

originally posted by: rickymouse
What are they supposed to do, build bikes and stock them in warehouses till people start buying them and go bankrupt?

To me this just shows that American companies are still suffering because of imports, which Trump actually has not done anything to fix.

A quick perusal of the HD website shows a lack of Japanese sport bike styling, which seems to be immensely popular.

Suzuki offers bikes that look similar to HD's Street and Sportster models, but HD doesn't currently offer anything that younger people might be looking for.

Looks like HD failed to read the market when JDM took off after the fast and furious movies.

So a company that is failing used the additional savings in paying out taxes to try and save it's business. The govt didn't give them money. It just took less away from them.

And this is somehow proof of something?

Riiiiight.

a reply to: Wardaddy454

What happened to people just wanting to go from point A to point B-ar with a motorcycle that looked mean and made a nice rumbling sound going down the road. It is stupid to have a motorcycle that can get up to sixty in a few seconds when driving around other vehicles. It is nice to have enough power, but it is dangerous enough driving a motorcycle in town, people pull out in front of you. That is where a Harley has an advantage, they may not see you but the sound makes them aware you are around.

originally posted by: rickymouse
a reply to: Wardaddy454

What happened to people just wanting to go from point A to point B-ar with a motorcycle that looked mean and made a nice rumbling sound going down the road. It is stupid to have a motorcycle that can get up to sixty in a few seconds when driving around other vehicles. It is nice to have enough power, but it is dangerous enough driving a motorcycle in town, people pull out in front of you. That is where a Harley has an advantage, they may not see you but the sound makes them aware you are around.

Problem is Harley's Barcaloungers don't look mean anymore to millennials. I know Harley guys love to say loud pipes save lives but it really is more loud pipes annoy everyone around them.

People are looking for smaller, more nimble bikes that are in fact easy to ride around town. The big cruisers can definitely mile munch on the highway, but I wouldn't want to try to ride one around downtown Chicago in heavy traffic.

Harley is going through the same issues that the Big 3 car makers went through in the 70s / 80s. They were stuck in their old ways and targeting an aging demographic. People kept saying you need to make smaller cars. You need to change the styling - see what Europeans and Japanese are doing. But the Big 3 kept doubling down on rental car fleets, cheap hard fisher price plastic interiors, and whale sized cars targeted at blue hairs.

Sport bikes aren't even all that popular anymore either. However, they are attracting new blood 500cc and under sport bikes. Yeah, no one needs 1000cc crotch rockets.

The japanese are making retro standard bikes and they are selling like hotcakes. The old honda CB models. Old Kawasaki models are being updated with modern stuff but keeping the retro styling.

Harley style bikes are passe which is the problem and they haven't come out with anything that is attractive to younger riders.

originally posted by: TinySickTears

originally posted by: Bluntone22
Harley has been struggling for years, "mostly because they make overpriced junk" so what does the tax cut have to do with it?

thats bull#.

those bikes are far from junk. ive owned a couple and been around them my entire life.

ive been hearing this # back to the 80's when i was a kid.
harleys suck man. the leak oil. they will leave you stranded.





bull#.
fantastic bikes.

i am not vouching for service and that kind of #. strictly talking about their bikes.
they make a great bike.

harley owners are a loyal group too.

ive not known any people that had a harley and gave it up for something else cause they were junk. quite the opposite

I will agree with that. I work with a bunch of people that worked for Harley Davidson, mainly the skilled trades and a few years ago it was the place to work for the trades, lots of overtime great wages and benefits. This is back around 04to about 2010. That was around their 100th birthday, then you couldn't buy a used Harley, Then the economy took a dive and there was a lay off and that's the way I ended up working with these guys. They opened up the contract and now the job is average the guys I work with were called back but chose to stay at the plant I work for. They just lost market.

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: rickymouse
a reply to: Wardaddy454

What happened to people just wanting to go from point A to point B-ar with a motorcycle that looked mean and made a nice rumbling sound going down the road. It is stupid to have a motorcycle that can get up to sixty in a few seconds when driving around other vehicles. It is nice to have enough power, but it is dangerous enough driving a motorcycle in town, people pull out in front of you. That is where a Harley has an advantage, they may not see you but the sound makes them aware you are around.

Problem is Harley's Barcaloungers don't look mean anymore to millennials. I know Harley guys love to say loud pipes save lives but it really is more loud pipes annoy everyone around them.

People are looking for smaller, more nimble bikes that are in fact easy to ride around town. The big cruisers can definitely mile munch on the highway, but I wouldn't want to try to ride one around downtown Chicago in heavy traffic.

Harley is going through the same issues that the Big 3 car makers went through in the 70s / 80s. They were stuck in their old ways and targeting an aging demographic. People kept saying you need to make smaller cars. You need to change the styling - see what Europeans and Japanese are doing. But the Big 3 kept doubling down on rental car fleets, cheap hard fisher price plastic interiors, and whale sized cars targeted at blue hairs.

Sport bikes aren't even all that popular anymore either. However, they are attracting new blood 500cc and under sport bikes. Yeah, no one needs 1000cc crotch rockets.

The japanese are making retro standard bikes and they are selling like hotcakes. The old honda CB models. Old Kawasaki models are being updated with modern stuff but keeping the retro styling.

Harley style bikes are passe which is the problem and they haven't come out with anything that is attractive to younger riders.

I hate the high pitched sound of the crotch rockets and fast sporty bikes. They remind me of the high pitched whiny voice that some women have. It is like listening to those hens talking on TV in the morning womens shows.

Give me the rich sound of a big Harley or similar bike. Headers and glasspacks on old sixties and seventies cars sounded so good. I think I am starting to salivate.

a reply to: rickymouse


Then you would like the sound of the car in my avitar, it has headders and glass packs on a small block with a nice cam

originally posted by: darepairman
a reply to: rickymouse


Then you would like the sound of the car in my avitar, it has headders and glass packs

Yeah. I used to own a sixty nine mustang special edition with a Holly 750 DP and Eldebrock hig rise intake with headers and glasspacks and cheater pipes.

I got stopped with it quite often, it impressed the cops, they wanted to see the engine. I did get fix-it tickets, but never for loud exhaust. They wanted to make sure it had good brakes and lights and handling ability. I had a little play in the steering and I got a fixit ticket so I had to fix it. They did not like seeing local people die because of faulty race cars.

anyone following Harley Davidson for any amount of time would know they are lucky to still be in business. The younger generation just isn't running out and buying them. They got too pricey and too much foreign content for even hardcore fans. The tax cuts probably gave them a reprieve before they become a scooter company.

originally posted by: schuyler
Harley is not making products US citizens want to buy.

That's one theory. Another would be that Harley is making products which US citizens can no longer afford.

40 years of virtually stagnant wages so that executive salaries, and their "golden parachutes", can balloon out of control have decimated Harley's consumer base.

More and more businesses are feeling this pinch as corporate greed continues cannibalizing the consumer base they all rely on.

You buy a Harley straight out of the crate, you have to put a couple of grand and a fair whack of your time into it to make it fun to ride.
That's their business model though.
I had to get rid of one bike last year. It was a choice between my rocket 3 and my old sportster.
I got rid of the rocket, despite it being the better bike in every respect.
The Harley just had that something that the newer triumph lacked.

Nothing is more subjective than what bike someone likes.
The only fault with Harleys is how much they cost.

originally posted by: Wardaddy454
A quick perusal of the HD website shows a lack of Japanese sport bike styling, which seems to be immensely popular.

Suzuki offers bikes that look similar to HD's Street and Sportster models, but HD doesn't currently offer anything that younger people might be looking for.

Looks like HD failed to read the market when JDM took off after the fast and furious movies.

They had their Buell Motorcycles division for "Japanese sport bike styling", but it went defunct in 2009.

originally posted by: darepairman
a reply to: rickymouse


Then you would like the sound of the car in my avitar, it has headders and glass packs on a small block with a nice cam

Yeah, see that's more my cup of tea, never been into motorcycles.

a reply to: Wardaddy454


Ya me neither, I owned a couple of bikes in the early 80s but I never really enjoyed them much

So much winning I can hardly keep up. Smh.....

A large part of HD's problems has not so much to do with kids buying sport bikes as it does with Japanese manufacturers producing Harley look-a-like cruisers. I believe the last time I read on the subject, Imports had taken around 50% of the cruiser market. That's a huge dent in sales for HD. HD also missed the demographic of the younger riders.

Buell was doomed to fail out of the gate. Taking a Sportster motor and throwing it in a sportbike frame does not a sport bike make. Eric Buell also never had much if any support from HD R&D. HD 's lack of investment in Buell is what lead to Buells demise and a big mistake on HD's part, IMO. They then coupled with Porsche engineers for the V-Rod motor but the final product failed in the execution and demographics dept.

There's a long list of issues that have hurt HD over the years, hopefully they can eventually turn things around. Heaven forbid that they have a company that makes bowling balls take them over again, ugh.

When I first got into Harleys you couldn't buy a new HD, there was about a year wait from the time you ordered one. People were ordering new bikes and then flipping them for more than list. I remember walking into Van Nuys HD when they only had two bikes on the showroom floor, one was a Sportster, the other a special order Sturgis model that wasn't for sale and a small rack of T-shirts, that was it for their showroom. The thing I miss the most from those days was that they had real bikers in the parts and service dept., most of them tatted up and a even a few Hells Angles members but they knew their $hit. Nowadays you have people working for HD that have never even owned one. I miss the old days.

a reply to: Southern Guardian

Harley-Davidson cut jobs, repurchased shares after tax cut

.
Wow!!. who would've thunk, no one saw that coming, a corp that actually took the money and ditched their grunt level employees, not in a million yrs ah tell ya!

originally posted by: soundguy
So much winning I can hardly keep up. Smh.....

Ooh don't forget his is busy saving Chinese telecom jobs, and he is winning because the Chinese invested in one of his complexes.
Well quite a few here wanted atrump to run America like a business, so here we are.