Time isn't real so what does that mean?

A lot of people say time is an illusion and it isn't real. On a fundamental level there's no time because there's no distance between events. This is why quantum experiment's can violate what we see as causality. So a measurement in the future can determine a past measurement. We see this on a large scales also. Einstein said the distinctions between past, present and future is a persistent illusion. Einstein also said:

“Since there exists in this four dimensional structure [space-time] no longer any sections which represent ‘now’ objectively, the concepts of happening and becoming are indeed not completely suspended, but yet complicated. It appears therefore more natural to think of physical reality as a four dimensional existence, instead of, as hitherto, the evolution of a three dimensional existence.”

Everything exists in it's own space-time. So we talk about all of space we need to talk about all of time. Time is just the distance between events. So 1970 is one point in space-time and 2018 is another point in space-time. We each have different space-times and when you look in the mirror, you're looking at yourself from the past. These differences are just so small we don't perceive them. Here's more:

Time feels real to people. But it doesn’t even exist, according to quantum physics. “There is no time variable in the fundamental equations that describe the world,” theoretical physicist Carlo Rovelli tells Quartz.

Rovelli’s new book, The Order of Time, published in April, is about our experience of time’s passage as humans, and the fact of its absence at minuscule and vast scales. He makes a compelling argument that chronology and continuity are just a story we tell ourselves in order to make sense of our existence.

Time, Rovelli contends, is merely a perspective, rather than a universal truth. It’s a point of view that humans share as a result of our biology and evolution, our place on Earth, and the planet’s place in the universe.

“From our perspective, the perspective of creatures who make up a small part of the world—we see that world flowing in time,” the physicist writes. At the quantum level, however, durations are so short that they can’t be divided and there is no such thing as time.

In fact, Rovelli explains, there are actually no things at all. Instead, the universe is made up of countless events. Even what might seem like a thing—a stone, say—is really an event taking place at a rate we can’t register. The stone is in a continual state of transformation, and on a long enough timeline, even it is fleeting, destined to take on some other form.

qz.com...

So we shouldn't say space-time, we should say space-time-CONSCIOUSNESS.

Consciousness makes the flow of time feel real locally. A person can remember the point in space-time that's 1970 but another conscious observer can experience 1970. You can look at the space-time as a map of the world. So 1950, 1970 and 2000 are points in space-time. The article says:

The world seems ordered, going from past to present, linking cause and effect, because of our perspective. We superimpose order upon it, fixing events into a particular, linear series. We link events to outcomes, and this give us a sense of time.

So when the universe was in a timeless state there was one consciousness that became separated as space expands. This "reality" could be a way that singular consciousness tries to make sense of the separation. This would be closely related to Panpsychism.

Another Voice: Science moving from materialism to panpsychism

www.ukiahdailyjournal.com...

The idea that everything from spoons to stones is conscious is gaining academic credibility

qz.com...

The Universe May Be Conscious, Say Prominent Scientists

bigthink.com...

Is the Universe Conscious?

www.nbcnews.com...

So everything would be a singular consciousness experiencing separation anxiety so we create a flow of time to make sense of it all.

I am amazed every time I read something authored by you.

a reply to: neoholographic


“On a fundamental level there's no time because there's no distance between events.”

So simple a realization, and yet, seemingly so difficult for most people to understand!

One “moment” no matter how brief we may define that moment to be, does not “end” so that the next “moment” can have a beginning, for the “gap” between the end of one moment and the beginning of the next moment, no matter how short/brief that gap might be, would be a period of “no time” and would thus never end.

The perceived “passage of time” is merely a matter of point of view.

I believe that once this concept of time as being “globular”, as opposed to linear, becomes dominant in the human conscience, we will begin to understand a new way to achieve feats of travel once thought impossible.

a reply to: Bhadhidar

I believe that once this concept of time as being “globular”, as opposed to linear, becomes dominant in the human conscience, we will begin to understand a new way to achieve feats if travel once thought impossible.

Take a trip and never leave the farm

a reply to: [post=23418268]neoholographic[/post
is time real is time not real can we prove it one way or the other and the answer to this is we dont really know but all that i do know is when i look at my watch and i see the seconds go bye i see that time is moving on well that whats my watch is telling me and also you say that there is no distance between events so in a event of me smacking my head on a wall is there not time of me smacking my head on the wall and distance in me missing that wall in the both moment in doing it and i could also have the time to think of the distance before i hit the wall and miss it altogether ??? i am lost ??

Time it's self is a constant no matter what we do or say. As i type this it's moving forward from the past (when i started till i end)...The word time is a human understanding of every second/hour and day, for it not to exist is just as much as saying we also don't exist.

Awesome OP!

When I'm feeling down, I remind myself that everything, everyone, molecule, atom is connected. We do not perceive it visually. It is an illusion that we feel we are separate.

I know not what exactly this gigantic, hectic but beautiful thing we experience is... but I do know it is all part of one singularity. Alive. Conscious.

a reply to: neoholographic

All he is saying is that time is relative to the observer, and that physical forces can manipulate the way an observer percieves time. That does not mean that time does not exist, just that there is no way to measure it consistently across the Experiences of all observers.

If all observers were eliminated from the universe, time and chronology it self would be unchanged. Things would still be in motion, and all events would not occur simultaneously. They would carry on The same way they have for the last 14 billion years.

Light would still travel at the same speed, and carry on for the same amount of time.

originally posted by: Plotus
I am amazed every time I read something authored by you.

Thanks for the post.

originally posted by: seaswine
Awesome OP!

When I'm feeling down, I remind myself that everything, everyone, molecule, atom is connected. We do not perceive it visually. It is an illusion that we feel we are separate.

I know not what exactly this gigantic, hectic but beautiful thing we experience is... but I do know it is all part of one singularity. Alive. Conscious.

Thanks and you're exactly right. I call it the illusion of separation.

a reply to: neoholographic

Very nice and thought provoking post.

On a fundamental level there's no time because there's no distance between events

Just a question. Does this not also apply to the other three dimensions if valid? I mean, there is no distance between points is space either, if you get down to it. That's the very nature of a one dimensional line, for instance. An infinite number of points along an axis.

How does an infinity of points in time invalidate the dimension as a reality?

Cheers,
BT

It is a Theory that all time , space , matter , and energy was released at exactly the same moment. The illusion of time passing as it does is human perception .

Time exist as as all particles that make up all matter decay. Again , it is merely our perception that designates the length .

I dont see any common ground to link time with all matter and energy being a "living entity"

Sounds like some weird term paper I wrote in the 70s based on 70s "fad" science.

a reply to: neoholographic

If time doesn't physically exist, wouldn't the universe be a physical singularity?

a reply to: neoholographic


Ummm...so basically...aging is a matter of perspective...if the flow from past...through present...to future is merely point of view...then aging and life progression is merely conscious perception placating consciousness...

Therefore...if a point of reference in a timeline is merely a matter of perspective...then conscious perception is not subject to position or point of reference...
This explains...or defines...non linear progression and cancels linear progression of life while informing that point perspective is therefore concurrent with all perspective points.

In essence past...present...and future exist not in sequence but concurrently...therefore...aging does not exist and is only relevant to convinced conscious perspective...in further essence...life can be experienced in reverse...or the flow stopped or branched...or changed in any manner of conscious depictions...

One would then ponder why what is...is as it appears...and why so many aspects of consciousness inhabit the same perception perspective and are along for the same ride...
Unless...all aspects of consciousness are merely an singular consciousness...experiencing all versions from a singular point perspective...


I hate you for causing these thoughts to swim to the forefront of this aspects perspective...

The Universe truly is consciousness...God damn you all...for my never having truly existed...







YouSir

a reply to: neoholographic

If this was true there would be no entropy.

originally posted by: neoholographic
A lot of people say time is an illusion and it isn't real.
...
So everything would be a singular consciousness experiencing separation anxiety so we create a flow of time to make sense of it all.

A lot of people, say lotsa things. Some say: "What time is it?"
By the time someone answers the question: the answer is wrong.

A thought experiment: What if time is not only real, but the only thing that's real?
Except that it's not really real, but perhaps it's one of the ways we have found to descibe that which is the most real, but undescribable to us?
So not the small sized, separated sequences of: now; now; now...
But the flow between instants, that could be called the: nnnnnnnnnoooooooooowwwwwwww...
The sliding way we experience the now.

Seems like this comes back to consciousness?

a reply to: neoholographic

That's beautiful

a reply to: neoholographic

Quote from OP
"Even what might seem like a thing—a stone, say—is really an event taking place at a rate we can’t register. The stone is in a continual state of transformation, and on a long enough timeline, even it is fleeting, destined to take on some other form."

This makes it seem like EVERYTHING IS TIME, rather than "time doesn't exist"...

Ok I will finish reading it meow...

originally posted by: Bhadhidar
a reply to: neoholographic


“On a fundamental level there's no time because there's no distance between events.”

So simple a realization, and yet, seemingly so difficult for most people to understand!

One “moment” no matter how brief we may define that moment to be, does not “end” so that the next “moment” can have a beginning, for the “gap” between the end of one moment and the beginning of the next moment, no matter how short/brief that gap might be, would be a period of “no time” and would thus never end.

The perceived “passage of time” is merely a matter of point of view.

I believe that once this concept of time as being “globular”, as opposed to linear, becomes dominant in the human conscience, we will begin to understand a new way to achieve feats of travel once thought impossible.

Maybe it IS difficult for people to understand.

But, I'm curious, how would you know that?

Maybe a lot of people umderstand it. But maybe this piece of knowledge does not change our everyday life in any noticeable way? So maybe you just aren't noticing that people umderstand it?

😉