An honest unusual discussion about firearms

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

I look at the “black thug” problem as a much larger issue than guns. It requires so much more to solve. It deserves its own thread.

Mass shootings, to me, is a 2-pronged problem of mental illness and guns. I think it fits better in the discussion of gun control. Gang issues are just too big to fit, in my opinion.

Mass shootings, statistically, aren't even a problem. Next to zero (something like 0.0000026% chance). To attack mass shootings as an issue is, from the bigger picture, solving problems that just aren't there. Its like climbing past all the fruit on a tree to only take the ones on the top branch.

If we want to discuss saving lives, you start with the big buckets. How about soldiers returning from our never ending wars committing suicide accounting for over 60% of all gun deaths? If we are going to parse out how to lower gun deaths, rather than killings overall...thats a great place to start. Because you are more likely to be killed by a police officer in pursuit of a fleeing criminal than a mass shooter.

I'm still waiting on an answer to my question.
Where did the OP get the gun homicide rate of 12 per 100k?

I've found an average of 4 per 100k.

That's a huge difference

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: Edumakated

The conversation isn't about saving lives. Its about disarming. You notice she is only discussing gun related violence. Not violence in general.

Because the thread is about gun violence, not violence in general. Wanna talk about violence in general? Start a thread, and I’ll discuss it.

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: Edumakated

99% of automobile deaths are accidents, not intentional killings. And, we have greatly reduced automobile deaths with safety mechanisms in place (requiring seat belts by law, adding safety features like airbags, etc.) The point is, we haven’t just ignored these deaths by saying “oh well, sh*t happens, no need to do anymore about it.” We are making constantly making changes to address the problems. Just talking about making changes to gun laws gets people outraged.

99% of automobile deaths are NOT ACCIDENTS. The top three causes are Drunk Driving, Distracted Driving, and Speeding. Sure the driver's may not have intended to get in a wreck, but to say they are accidental is absurd. It is like saying a gang member shooting a kid during a drive by is an accident. Hey, we was trying to shoot Tyrone, but instead he shot Jaheim, therefore, it was an "accident".

What more gun laws and precautions do you need? We already have background checks. Felons can't own guns. We have gun safes. We have trigger locks.

Again, the vast majority of gun crime ignores all of those things, so increasing them does nothing.

A seat belt does not prevent drunk driving...

Come get some....

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

I look at the “black thug” problem as a much larger issue than guns. It requires so much more to solve. It deserves its own thread.

Mass shootings, to me, is a 2-pronged problem of mental illness and guns. I think it fits better in the discussion of gun control. Gang issues are just too big to fit, in my opinion.

Mass shootings, statistically, aren't even a problem. Next to zero (something like 0.0000026% chance). To attack mass shootings as an issue is, from the bigger picture, solving problems that just aren't there. Its like climbing past all the fruit on a tree to only take the ones on the top branch.

That isn’t what Australia thought. Since we’re comparing Australia and the U.S.

Duplicate

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
Mass shootings, statistically, aren't even a problem. Next to zero (something like 0.0000026% chance).

Stats are just a part of the equation. The "tone" set by them also has to be taken into account. It's like the Cold War. It's not likely to happen but the fear remains.

a reply to: olaru12

You seem rather randy today.

originally posted by: Bluntone22
I'm still waiting on an answer to my question.
Where did the OP get the gun homicide rate of 12 per 100k?

I've found an average of 4 per 100k.

That's a huge difference

Apologies. I got it from the wiki source. Actual figure by them is 11.96.

originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

I look at the “black thug” problem as a much larger issue than guns. It requires so much more to solve. It deserves its own thread.

Mass shootings, to me, is a 2-pronged problem of mental illness and guns. I think it fits better in the discussion of gun control. Gang issues are just too big to fit, in my opinion.

Mass shootings, statistically, aren't even a problem. Next to zero (something like 0.0000026% chance). To attack mass shootings as an issue is, from the bigger picture, solving problems that just aren't there. Its like climbing past all the fruit on a tree to only take the ones on the top branch.

That isn’t what Australia thought. Since we’re comparing Australia and the U.S.

Australia thought it was ok to infringe on all citizens' rights to prevent a handful of deaths. Fortunately, we don't think like that here in the US.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

It's always been my opinion that mental health services need much more support in regards to this issue.

Sane people don't kill their family or innocent people, content people do not kill themselves.

I mean I live in the UK, it's somewhat difficult for me to obtain a firearm yet I've had a love of shooting since I fired my first ballbearing at the age of 6. But then it's not exactly necessary for me to ever own a firearm to shoot, we have shooting ranges and their is alternatives like gas-powered pellet guns.

But I digress, the mental health of a gun owner has always been a prevailing issue in regards to death by firearms.

I don't see much change in the future in that regard, which is a damn shame. We can all do more, we can always do more.

a reply to: DBCowboy

Wait, so are we supposed to also take opposite positions from what we'd normally have? Or is it only you who gets to have fun here?

a reply to: Edumakated

Automobile accidents are not usually the result of someone trying to kill someone else, and you know that.

Whatever gun laws and precautions Australia has taken seems to have greatly reduced gun deaths. I’ll have what they’re having.

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

I look at the “black thug” problem as a much larger issue than guns. It requires so much more to solve. It deserves its own thread.

Mass shootings, to me, is a 2-pronged problem of mental illness and guns. I think it fits better in the discussion of gun control. Gang issues are just too big to fit, in my opinion.

Mass shootings, statistically, aren't even a problem. Next to zero (something like 0.0000026% chance). To attack mass shootings as an issue is, from the bigger picture, solving problems that just aren't there. Its like climbing past all the fruit on a tree to only take the ones on the top branch.

That isn’t what Australia thought. Since we’re comparing Australia and the U.S.

Australia thought it was ok to infringe on all citizens' rights to prevent a handful of deaths. Fortunately, we don't think like that here in the US.

I actually can't think of another country that thinks the same as the States. Outside of there it isn't a right.

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

I look at the “black thug” problem as a much larger issue than guns. It requires so much more to solve. It deserves its own thread.

Mass shootings, to me, is a 2-pronged problem of mental illness and guns. I think it fits better in the discussion of gun control. Gang issues are just too big to fit, in my opinion.

Mass shootings, statistically, aren't even a problem. Next to zero (something like 0.0000026% chance). To attack mass shootings as an issue is, from the bigger picture, solving problems that just aren't there. Its like climbing past all the fruit on a tree to only take the ones on the top branch.

That isn’t what Australia thought. Since we’re comparing Australia and the U.S.

Australia thought it was ok to infringe on all citizens' rights to prevent a handful of deaths. Fortunately, we don't think like that here in the US.

No, we think a “handful” of deaths by guns, including children shot in their first grade classroom, is hunky dory. How fortunate for us.

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: Edumakated

99% of automobile deaths are accidents, not intentional killings. And, we have greatly reduced automobile deaths with safety mechanisms in place (requiring seat belts by law, adding safety features like airbags, etc.) The point is, we haven’t just ignored these deaths by saying “oh well, sh*t happens, no need to do anymore about it.” We are making constantly making changes to address the problems. Just talking about making changes to gun laws gets people outraged.

99% of automobile deaths are NOT ACCIDENTS. The top three causes are Drunk Driving, Distracted Driving, and Speeding. Sure the driver's may not have intended to get in a wreck, but to say they are accidental is absurd. It is like saying a gang member shooting a kid during a drive by is an accident. Hey, we was trying to shoot Tyrone, but instead he shot Jaheim, therefore, it was an "accident".

What more gun laws and precautions do you need? We already have background checks. Felons can't own guns. We have gun safes. We have trigger locks.

Again, the vast majority of gun crime ignores all of those things, so increasing them does nothing.

A seat belt does not prevent drunk driving...

Those are still clearly accidents in that there was no intent to kill someone. There has been more or less continual development in car technology to make cars safer.

Development in gun technology in the other hand is designed to increase lethality.

The obvious point is that US gun laws don't work as the homicide rate is 3 times higher than any comparable country. You mention gun safes as an example. In most countries use of a safe location to store a gun is mandatory as part of the licence requirements.

originally posted by: enlightenedservant
a reply to: DBCowboy

Wait, so are we supposed to also take opposite positions from what we'd normally have? Or is it only you who gets to have fun here?

Take whatever position you'd like!

For me, it helps create a better overall understanding of the issue.

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: Bluntone22
I'm still waiting on an answer to my question.
Where did the OP get the gun homicide rate of 12 per 100k?

I've found an average of 4 per 100k.

That's a huge difference

Apologies. I got it from the wiki source. Actual figure by them is 11.96.

My wiki search has it at 4.2


en.m.wikipedia.org...

a reply to: kaylaluv

No, we think a “handful” of deaths by guns, including children shot in their first grade classroom, is hunky dory. How fortunate for us.

What a stupid comment .. No one thinks its ok or hunky dory..