The U.S. Will Withdraw From Iran Nuclear Deal, Trump Tells Macron : NY Times

One thing that Obama actually got right Trump is going to sink?
Put us all at risk for WW 3 Trump, you think you can bs your way through this.
Get your head out of Netanbombyou's butt.
Very troubling especially since Israel is bombing Iranian assets in Syria.
This could go live and start another war while we haven't finished the last 2.

a reply to: Asktheanimals

One thing that Obama actually got right Trump is going to sink?

What does getting it right matter? Not that the deal is great. But it beat the hell out of nothing. Which is what Trump has.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Asktheanimals

One thing that Obama actually got right Trump is going to sink?

What does getting it right matter? Not that the deal is great. But it beat the hell out of nothing. Which is what Trump has.

It was as worthless as that piece of paper Neville Chamberlain famously waved after consorting with Hitler.

Don't forget, that since the agreement was signed,
not only has the IAEA confirmed that Iran is complying with the deal,
but the Trump administration has repeatedly verified Iran’s compliance.

Even Mattis, said the verification mechanisms in the deal are “robust”
and the head of the IAEA called them the “world’s most robust”

But forget the facts and the détails...
As long as Trump can trash anthing Obama did, that's all that matters

So what is your Orange Messiah's new plan ?

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Asktheanimals

One thing that Obama actually got right Trump is going to sink?

What does getting it right matter? Not that the deal is great. But it beat the hell out of nothing. Which is what Trump has.

The Iran deal is still in tact. Only 1 of the 8 involved parties has backed out of it. Since Iran is (supposedly) abiding by the framework of the agreement, no harm done.

a reply to: carewemust
Except that US sanctions will be reinstated.
Except that the credibility of the US in international relations has been decimated.

No harm done. We'll see what happens. Right?

a reply to: Phage


Sanctions and military threats worked with North Korea. Might as well try again, with Iran.

Having Credibility of U.S. leadership here at home with U.S. citizens, is more important than credibility with non-U.S. citizens. Promises Made + Promises Kept = Credibility.

Yep.. We'll see what happens. No guts, no glory.

a reply to: carewemust

Sanctions and military threats worked with North Korea. Might as well try again, with Iran.

Try what? Iran gave up nuclear development. The agreement was working.

Did you forget, so soon, what you wrote?

Only 1 of the 8 involved parties has backed out of it.

The sanctions against North Korea are multilateral. Trump acted unilaterally.

Having Credibility of U.S. leadership here at home with U.S. citizens, is more important than credibility with non-U.S. citizens.

Right. Because we still live in the 1800's.

a reply to: Phage


If Iran gave up nuclear development, they will prove it. The sanctions never need be implemented.

What's wrong with Trump acting Unilaterally? He was elected to do what he's doing. It's like one partner pulling out of a multi-partner business arrangement. Happens all the time.

What happened in the 1800's? You going all nostalgic on me now, Phage?

a reply to: carewemust

If Iran gave up nuclear development, they will prove it.

You really don't know anything about the deal, do you?

What's wrong with Trump acting Unilaterally?

You really don't see the contradiction in your statements, do you?

What happened in the 1800's?

Not a lot in the way of world conflict. Not a lot. The world has changed a lot. Isolationism is a very risky proposition.

originally posted by: Phage

Try what? Iran gave up nuclear development. The agreement was working.

Iran agreed to reduced it existing stock of enriched uranum stop producing HEU for a period of ten years. It allowed them to continue R&D efforts and an break out capbility of one year.

So yeah the agreement was working. Problem is, the deal wasnt just delaying Irans nuclear weapons program for about 10 years, not stopping it.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: carewemust

If Iran gave up nuclear development, they will prove it.

You really don't know anything about the deal, do you?

What's wrong with Trump acting Unilaterally?

You really don't see the contradiction in your statements, do you?

What happened in the 1800's?

Not a lot in the way of world conflict. Not a lot. The world has changed a lot. Isolationism is a very risky proposition.

Only that Donald Trump has stated in various interviews over the last 3 years. Since he has an excellent discernment ability, I easily agree with most of his assessments.

No.

Isolationism is measured by degree. 5% isolated / 50% isolated / 100% isolated. How much isolationism is possible before the U.S. population yell's "uncle!"?

a reply to: mightmight

Iran agreed to reduced it existing stock of enriched uranum stop producing HEU for a period of ten years.

False

Iran's uranium stockpile was reduced by 98% to 300kg (660lbs), a figure that must not be exceeded until 2031. It must also keep the stockpile's level of enrichment at 3.67%.

www.bbc.com...

a reply to: carewemust

Only that Donald Trump has stated in various interviews over the last 3 years. Since he has an excellent discernment ability, I easily agree with most of his assessments.

You know that Donald Trump lies, often for no reason. Right?
You have no interest in learning some actual facts?

originally posted by: Cassi3l
a reply to: gortex

It'll be like a birthday and Hanouka all rolled in to 1 for Bibi :
of course he'll be delighted !
Likewise, Russian arms sellers...


As with ACA and the Paris agreement
Trump can't come up with anything better, only to wreck things
Childishly pi$$ing on Obama's legacy

Everything Obama did caused desolation to every program he touched. It made Iran angry when Obama tried bribing them and the next day the ayatollah called for America to be destroyed. You can't pay a reckless bully to be nice to you, they will take your gifts, and hammer you down, which is exactly how Iran responded to Obama's so called deal.

It takes time to cleanup and replace what amounts to toxic nuclear waste spread far and wide. People in the media refer to "Obama's legacy" as if it represents something valuable. It doesn't. Remember, Obama exempted all his friends and political contributors from having to participate in his social programs. (Obviously Obama knew his buddies wouldn't want any part of that load of worthless garbage). (That is his real legacy). And every program he marketed to the public were complete fabrications. "If you like your doctor...." etc, etc, ad nauseum)..

Calling it Obama's legacy as if it is a good thing gives new meaning to the phrase "Lipstick on a pig".

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: mightmight

Iran agreed to reduced it existing stock of enriched uranum stop producing HEU for a period of ten years.

False

Iran's uranium stockpile was reduced by 98% to 300kg (660lbs), a figure that must not be exceeded until 2031. It must also keep the stockpile's level of enrichment at 3.67%.

www.bbc.com...

Actually its a gradual sunset beginning in 2025. We can look at this in detail, but its a moot point. Whether Iran is free to do what it wants after 10 or 15 years makes no difference.

a reply to: mightmight

Actually its a gradual sunset beginning in 2025.

No it isn't.

We can look at this in detail, but its a moot point.

Just because you were wrong does not make it moot.

Whether Iran is free to do what it wants after 10 or 15 years makes no difference.

They aren't. Not without monitoring.



Oh. Look:

Assuming the other parties to the deal reciprocate by holding up their end of the bargain, Iran will ratify in 2023 the IAEA’s Additional Protocol, which allows short-notice inspections of undeclared facilities in Iran and which it is now voluntarily implementing. To date, no country on earth has developed nuclear weapons under the watchful eyes of the IAEA’s inspectors who are empowered by the access that the Additional Protocol affords them.

www.foreignaffairs.com...

originally posted by: carewemust
a reply to: Phage


Sanctions and military threats worked with North Korea. Might as well try again, with Iran.

Having Credibility of U.S. leadership here at home with U.S. citizens, is more important than credibility with non-U.S. citizens. Promises Made + Promises Kept = Credibility.

Yep.. We'll see what happens. No guts, no glory.

So in essence it's just cutting off Americas nose to spite it's face and push the world closer to nuclear holocaust based on a load of make believe that's so badly fabricated the US admin have already told the public they're lying about the claims. War for wars sake.

The admin is rapidly losing any credibility on the world stage with routinely backing out of international agreements based on BS stories. Meanwhile the rest of the world are busy engaging in dialogue and working together while the US gradually losses any power and influence as the condemnation from US allies over this has proven.

Whether Iran is free to do what it wants after 10 or 15 years makes no difference.

They aren't. Not without monitoring.

Monitoring is ineffectual. The key is breakout capability. Iran will be able to build up its inventory if advanced centrifuges reducing the time needed to build a bomb to a couple of weeks.
Will the IAEA detect the Iranian activity? Yes, but not quick enough to alert the international community or the world to do anything about it.
There is also another issue which gets ignored - after the deal sunsets, Iran can build up all the technical knowhow they need to enrich uranium in the open, not vioalting any IAEA agreement - only to turn around and produce weapons grade material on some black military site. This is much easier to do when you have you'd need out in the open anyway.

As for the specific point about Iran may be joining some additional IAEA protocol or whatnot - so what? Doesnt mean its impossbile to build a bomb with it, its just nobody has ever tried.

Again, yes the deal delays Irans path to a bomb. This was acutally a good thing IMO.
And yes, IAEA will probably detect a breakout - but not quick enough to do something about it post 2025. This is why among other things the deal was ineffectual.
What would have been needed is the dismanteling of vital parts of the Iranian enrichment capability. No centrifuges for them. And a rigerous, unlimited inspection of all Iranian facilities, including military research centers.

The current deal guarantees an Iranian bomb by the end of the next decade, inspections or not.

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg

originally posted by: JDmOKI
a reply to: Cassi3l

I always viewed this deal as a rushed bribe from obama to Iran as a legacy move. Just used for good headlines and really resulted in nothing

Then do some basic research on it and discover the true depth of your ignorance.

Please enlighten me on how this is such a great deal that stops Iran from Secretly developing nuclear weapons under the ruse of following the deal. Last minute Legacy move bribe that failed