The U.S. Will Withdraw From Iran Nuclear Deal, Trump Tells Macron : NY Times

originally posted by: Zanti Misfit
a reply to: burdman30ott6

Question , Would Russia or China be OK with a Third World Country with the Ability to Launch ICBM Nuclear Tipped Missiles at them , or , would they see that as Totally Unacceptable as does President Trump ?

Russia and China simply sign deals with those countries to provide them with the nukes and the personnel needed to launch them. It's one of the reasons this is so serious. Most of the nuclear tech held outside of Russia, China, the US, and France came from one of those 4 countries to begin with.

You own M/E oïl,
you own the world

and .. "bomb-bomb bomb Iran" ...
That's neocon talk, right ?
Easy-peasy, right ?

... isn't Bolton a bit, y'know, neocony
a reply to: Blaine91555

originally posted by: Metallicus
Glad we got out of this bad deal.

Will they return the billions of dollars that idiot Obama gave them?

Erm, you are aware that Obama simply released the funds that actually belonged to them, from the time of the Iranian revolution aren't you?

"Regardles or not" as you say
Unintended consequences
Won't be hurting Trump
or his entourage
but average Joe

a reply to: MRinder

a reply to: Cassi3l

Who said anything about bombing Iran? Pat your horse on the head and calm him, that stick is not a snake, it's a stick. Nobody is going to bomb Iran.

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg

originally posted by: Brotherman
So what exactly does all of this mean? How does this affect our lives in the west and how does it affect their lives in the Middle East?

A) The EU and the UK now have an open reason to distrust and oppose Trump. Basically he waved a middle digit at them and seems to have been surprised when they reciprocated. Let me me stress this yet again - you don't spit in the face of your allies.
B) The Middle East is now more unstable than ever before. Iran's hardliners have been strengthened after years of telling everyone that the US can't be trusted to keep their word. Israel's PM thinks that he now has a friend in the White House who will back his plays (he won't, as Trump doesn't understand what he's done and is now being advised by the ultra-hawk Neocon John Bolton. Tremble at the whiffle of his mighty 'tache!) and will possibly do something stupid.
C) The price of oil might go up, depending on what happens next.
D) The deal is still being backed by the EU, so Trump (or rather whoever is unlucky to get stuck with this hot potato) needs to work out how sanctions will affect EU companies that have links to Iran.

In a nutshell? THIS WAS A MORONIC MOVE.

A) European countries will work to make a deal that Trump wants. They have no choice. Whether they like it or not, the US calls the tune. If they try and 'spit in the face' of the USA (which clearly they would never do), their companies will be decimated. They are not going to choose the Iranian economy over the US and they have zero leverage. As for Trump spitting in their faces, well, no. He spit in Obama's face and there is nothing Barry can do about it either, because he never got support for his deal in the first place. If the UK, France Germany were stupid enough to negotiate a deal with the US that did not involve a proper treaty ratified by Congress, then that's on them. Same goes for Iran. Trump has not gone back on a deal the US made. He has nullified a deal that Obama made without the proper support.

B) Actually, the middle east is far more stable than at it's worst under Bush and Obama. Ask the people who are no longer living under the rule of ISIS.

C) It might also go down. ONly an idiot pretends to know what the market will do.

D) Trump has already said how it will effect EU companies. They'll lose out by being sanctioned themselves. Some of the major Western players have already said they are now reviewing their deals. None of them will be prepared to be excluded by the US.

The bottom line is that the USA holds ALL the cards and Trump is playing them. Iran only has two choices. Drop nuclear ambitions or get destroyed and Europe, Russia and China can't save them.

We've all heard the idiot talking heads wrt to NK... oh yeah, moronic tactics by Trump, apparently. Well, they are back in their boxes now eating crow. Same is going to happen here because for the first time in decades the US actually has a backbone. In the long run that makes us all safer, instead of following the spineless 'Neville Chamberlain' approach.

I keep wondering just which country you are actually from, because you seem to be very badly informed about a lot of things.
Here's the middle finger from Europe. We're supporting the deal. It's Trump who has spat in our faces, despite the entreaties of May and Macron.
This decision by Trump isolates exactly one country - the US.

Best deal available for 150 Million
which is small potatoes ... after all
;p
a reply to: Metallicus

a reply to: Blaine91555

Nobody is going to bomb Iran

Agreed
At least, nobody in their right mind would ...

a reply to: AngryCymraeg

What a strange thing to wonder.
The European countries want to stay in the deal, but they are going to do what is best for them and that is taking the US lead. It's really that simple. Bluster does not equal the reality. Watch for the actions. Your so-called middle finger is a carefully worded statement to try and keep the US at the table. It was an orchestrated announcement AFTER speaking with Trump.

As for being informed, I find a contrary position to the complete idiots who were crying about WW3 over NK is a good position to take - namely the same people crying over the Iran deal now.

The US is about as isolated as the overwhelming chip leader at the final table in the World Series of Poker. If you don't understand that, then there is really no hope for you.

Make no mistake
To judge by Trump's actions
maga = isolisation
Bigly

a reply to: UKTruth

originally posted by: manuelram16
So what part of Obama's legacy is ruined ?
-When he said defiantly to president Bush "Mr. President stop this illegal war"
-Or the "If you like your doctor you can keep your doctor"

Folks need to stop giving the Obama administration such a hard time, those "socialists" did manage to bankrupt Venezuela after all. Things are rarely ever what they seem.

Only two people wanted to kill the deal. Trump is is so utterly ignorant of basic facts and his buddy Netanyahu.

Even old Mad Dog Mattis said the verification's were robust and it was working.

If you really want to get real the US is in violation of the treaty for pulling out with just cause.

Iran can and should go ahead and develop the bomb and nothing short of an invasion will stop this simple fact. They are too dug in for the whole bomb dropping thing and Israel would be hard pressed to sustain an attack on the facilities which are dug in and spread out. The US would have to help out

North Korea would be stupid to give up their nukes under ANY circumstances and Trump in true Trump fashion may have torpedoed his own signature foreign policy accomplishment.

originally posted by: Blaine91555
a reply to: Cassi3l

Who said anything about bombing Iran? Pat your horse on the head and calm him, that stick is not a snake, it's a stick. Nobody is going to bomb Iran.

It was a campaign speech delivered by McCain when he was running for pres. Singing 'bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb bomb Iran' was meant to be a vote inner, shows the screwed up mentality of these people. Not saying it'll automatically happen now but Bolton was behind that one.

originally posted by: FredT
If you really want to get real the US is in violation of the treaty for pulling out with just cause.

Huh? It wasn't a treaty in any way, it was a nonbinding agreement. The law mandates Senate approval of any "treaty." POTUS alone cannot sign one autonimously and, even more telling, Obama scrambled desperately after signing the agreement to get 34 Democrat Senators on his side to shield himself from a veto and fillibuster proof passage of the Corker-Cardin bill which would have cemented a Congressional resolution of disapproval of Obama's rogue agreement with Iran.

If you want to call it a treaty, then by all means... let's discuss the illegality of that "treaty," since it utterly failed to meet the Constitutional requirements of an active treaty. In fact, since it failed to receive Senate approval as a treaty, it violates Congressional sanctions legally imposed on Iran.

This is one of my major beefs with the exercises in projection used against Trump's presidential decisions. The man is following the law as it is written rather than following the SOP established under Obama of ignoring laws the executive branch of the time found inconvenient or in opposition of their narratives. Same for the Paris Accords, same for DACA... Trump is taking crap for following the established and ratified law of the United States of America rather than following some bastardized mutation of protocol and proclivity of executive opinion taking supremacy over ratified law.

ETA: Wasn't there a lot of stink a few years ago when some Obama detractors were perceived to be sideline cheering for Assad and Putin against Obama? I thought that was viewed as being a high degree of childish sour grapes, yet here we're going to rah-rah Iran developing nukes and North Korea leaving the table to resume building their nuclear McGuffin device because: "that'll show Trump!"

a reply to: Cassi3l

Good...

Now all that is needed is for Kerry to have his security clearance stripped and arrested and charged with violating the Logan act.

a reply to: FredT

The agreement relied on Iran inspecting itself and reporting its results.
Military facilities were off limits and not included in the agreement.
The IAEA already confirmed years back that Iran had an active nuclear weapons program and was hiding its existence at several military facilities. Or do you not remember when Iran was caught sealing off part of a base and removing top soil to remove trace evidence of nuclear testing.
Iran was caught with advanced explosion models for nuclear detonation computer modeling.
Iran was caught during Bush's administration of having secret nuclear facilities for Uranium enrichment.
Thew cache of Iranian documents Israel snuck out are being examined by several countries and Russia has called for the IAEA top review those documents.

As far as inspections being robust the only way to make that comparison is by qualifying it with the fact inspections werent allowed prior to the faulty agreement. In essence the argument is some inspections are better than none.

Finally if Obama were serious he would have followed the Constitution and made it a treaty with Congressional approval. When Congress said no he illegally used an executive agreement to bypass Congress.

Finally Kerry is compromised. His daughter is married to an Iranian national with ties to the Foreign Minister. Even worse is back in 2015 Iran denied this was true even though evidence shows it is.

If they are going to lie about a marriage and who was there they are going to lie about a nuclear weapons program they have had for decades.

More good information for demonstrating the strangeness of Democrat leaders as we head to the 2018 elections.

In 2015, Chuck Schumer was strongly opposed to the IRAN DEAL.

Today, Chuck Schumer was strongly opposed to Trump taking the U.S. out of the IRAN DEAL.

The wings are melting off of the Obumbler Library. Soon it will be just the size of an outhouse where the public can use his executive orders as wipes.

a reply to: carewemust

That's true of a number of Republicans as well.
Do you know why? I'll tell you. It's because Trump has no idea what to do next.
www.foxnews.com...
"We'll see what happens."

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: carewemust

That's true of a number of Republicans as well.
Do you know why? I'll tell you. It's because Trump has no idea what to do next.

"We'll see what happens."

It's called not tipping your hand, part of 15 dimensional chess mastery. He straight up called it that Iran won't want to negotiate at first, the "we'll see" part comes after that. He offered up good will for future negotiations, covering all the bases so if he has to lay the smack down later on it's their fault.

Everyone said NATO wouldn't budge either, they started shoveling money into NATO after the Orange cheetoh paid them a visit. NK is singing a different tune after Trump turned his attention on them, now it is Iran's turn to get put in their place. It's nice having a real President for once.