McCain wants Obama to give his eulogy.

a reply to: matafuchs

"Progressive" is a relative term, just as "conservative" is a relative term. What's "progressive" in one time period and/or region can be seen as "centrist" or even "conservative" in another time period and/or region.

Just in a 1980 Republican presidential debate, Bush Sr and Reagan were debating that we should open the southern border with Mexico to keep them as our allies instead of keeping them out and risk letting them get closer to the communists. No matter how any of you try to revise the past, they were clearly political conservatives back then. Yet their words would now be seen as "extreme left wing" now (just check the thread about Ellison's shirt).

So it's pointless to call someone a progressive or conservative without listing the time period because the words are useless otherwise. Bush Jr was by no means a political, economic, nor social progressive for his time period, unless you're openly admitting that Texas Republicans overwhelmingly supported a progressive in Texas' 1994 and 1998 Gubernatorial elections (when they elected and re-elected him), and then nationwide Republicans vigorously backed a progressive in both 2000 and 2004 lol.

So now Republicans are actually claiming to be progressives now, huh? LOL

a reply to: MRinder

I don't wish him ill will in his waning moments on this Earth.

That is a positive.

I pray that God will forgive him for his war mongering ways.

I do not believe in a god, but if there is one, I'm sure our prayers will not have anything to do with how he judges what is in the hearts of other people.

On the flipside, I see nothing wrong with pointing out that he obviously was more or less a Democrat in a Republic suit or that he must have been either in the pocket of the arms dealers or was out of his mind given his love of war.

That may be true. Republicans and Democrats have very little that separate them. They are both full of neocons. Hopefully, on day, we will see more Leftists rise to bring some balance back to the political make-up of this country.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

What is it you're so angry about?

Where's the love?

This one's for Introvert -

I do not believe in a god, but if there is one, I'm sure our prayers will not have anything to do with how he judges what is in the hearts of other people.

I'm not sure I do either, however you mentioned there might be one, and in considering such I cannot help but consider, that your entertaining such leads me to believe that you in fact, believe in such a God.

Tell me, if God did in fact exist, how would you entertain that? Would you excuse yourself from being inadvertently wrong? Or would you laugh it off and declare your ignorance on the matter?

a reply to: BotheLumberJack

I'm not sure I do either, however you mentioned there might be one, and in considering such I cannot help but consider myself, that your entertaining such leads me to believe that you in fact, believe in such a God.

I did not say there might be one. I said "if" there is a god. It's a hypothetical, not a belief.

Tell me, if God did in fact exist, how would you entertain that? Would you excuse yourself from being inadvertently wrong? Or would you laugh it off and declare your ignorance on the matter?

How would I be wrong? I do not state that there is a god and I do not state there isn't a god.

I don't know.

By definition, we are all ignorant to the truth of whether there is a god or not. Unless you are a believer, of course.

Even then, it's a matter of faith, not fact.

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: BotheLumberJack

I'm not sure I do either, however you mentioned there might be one, and in considering such I cannot help but consider myself, that your entertaining such leads me to believe that you in fact, believe in such a God.

I did not say there might be one. I said "if" there is a god. It's a hypothetical, not a belief.

Tell me, if God did in fact exist, how would you entertain that? Would you excuse yourself from being inadvertently wrong? Or would you laugh it off and declare your ignorance on the matter?

How would I be wrong? I do not state that there is a god and I do not state there isn't a god.

I don't know.

By definition, we are all ignorant to the truth of whether there is a god or not. Unless you are a believer, of course.

Even then, it's a matter of faith, not fact.

Ok then. 'IF' there was a GOD, .. What would your Hypothetical opinion be?

Alright.

By definition, we are all ignorant to the truth of whether there is a god or not. Unless you are a believer, of course. Even then, it's a matter of faith, not fact.

By definition, when you say 'we' are all ignorant to the truth of whether there is a god or not' as you put it, might I ask, who are you referring to exactly?

You then say, Unless you are a believer, it is a matter of faith, not fact.

So can you really say that 'we' whoever 'we are', are ignorant of 'the truth' of whether or there is a god or not, if you infact, don't even believe in the fact, and claim that one must be a believer and of faith in order for that to be true?

Thank you for replying

a reply to: BotheLumberJack

Even "believers" are ignorant as to whether God is real or not. If this wasn't the case they would call themselves "knowers" and they would be able to prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt. Seems that this is how God wants it to be according to the Bible.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

I was trying to express the mindset of those who have had the money and power for the last 120 years. It is a Progressive movement and they take many forms, belong to many parties and in some cases none they just have the money and power and play all sides. They used it as an excuse to 'clean house' and show they were trying to remove corruption but were actually causing it. Sounds like politics today right?

originally posted by: MRinder
a reply to: BotheLumberJack

Even "believers" are ignorant as to whether God is real or not. If this wasn't the case they would call themselves "knowers" and they would be able to prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt. Seems that this is how God wants it to be according to the Bible.

Only if you believe in a God. Do you believe in a God MRinder?

a reply to: BotheLumberJack

I do chose to believe in a God, but its a choice and its not based on provable fact. Not to be rude, but you are derailing the thread. If you want to debate God or evangelize than by all means create a thread and let me know about it and I will join you. But if this keeps going on we will both get in trouble by the mods for derailing the thread. Thank you.

originally posted by: MRinder
a reply to: BotheLumberJack

Evangelism isn't my forte' sorry. I'm here for the same reason you are, to debate, learn and experience. So please, don't nail me to the cross just yet, we've so many miles yet to cover.

Thank You.

a reply to: BotheLumberJack

Ok then. 'IF' there was a GOD, .. What would your Hypothetical opinion be?

What is my hypothetical opinion about what?

"If" there is a god, there is a god. No opinion required.

By definition, when you say 'we' are all ignorant to the truth of whether there is a god or not' as you put it, might I ask, who are you referring to exactly?

Everyone. We are all ignorant to the truth of whether there is a god or not, correct?

That is why they call it faith for those that choose to believe, not fact.

So can you really say that 'we' whoever 'we are', are ignorant of 'the truth' of whether or there is a god or not, if you infact, don't even believe in the fact, and claim that one must be a believer and of faith in order for that to be true?

That's a bit of a word salad that does not make much sense.

Either we know what is fact or we do not. In this case, we do not know. Therefore, be definition, we are ignorant of the truth.

For one to claim there is a god is a matter of belief and/or faith, not verifiable truth.

a reply to: MRinder

War mongering is a conservative trait..

The left is always the peace party..

Everything is relative..

But it isn’t even close.. the gop has been the ones stoking war since Vietnam...

Well all except the Paul’s..


Ron for sure , but partially rand as well..

I don’t think there has been a single vote for military action where more republicans voted no than democrats...



Stuff like this blows my mind...


If your bashing mcCainon being a warmonger.. your attacking him from the left.. not the right lol..


McCain just wasn’t willing to play conspiracy theory fantasy land with this batch of republicans..

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: BotheLumberJack

Ok then. 'IF' there was a GOD, .. What would your Hypothetical opinion be?

What is my hypothetical opinion about what?

"If" there is a god, there is a god. No opinion required.

By definition, when you say 'we' are all ignorant to the truth of whether there is a god or not' as you put it, might I ask, who are you referring to exactly?

Everyone. We are all ignorant to the truth of whether there is a god or not, correct?

That is why they call it faith, not fact.

So can you really say that 'we' whoever 'we are', are ignorant of 'the truth' of whether or there is a god or not, if you infact, don't even believe in the fact, and claim that one must be a believer and of faith in order for that to be true?

That's a bit of a word salad that does not make much sense.

Either we know what is fact or we do not. In this case, we do not know. Therefore, be definition, we are ignorant of the truth.

For one to claim there is a god is a matter of belief and/or faith, not verifiable truth.

Part 1.

What is my hypothetical opinion about what? "If" there is a god, there is a god. No opinion required.

Eh?

Part 2.

Everyone. We are all ignorant to the truth of whether there is a god or not, correct? That is why they call it faith, not fact.

You haven't discussed this with other atheists, and besides the fact, you don't believe in Faith driven events. So ...

Part3.

Either we know what is fact or we do not. In this case, we do not know. Therefore, be definition, we are ignorant of the truth. For one to claim there is a god is a matter of belief and/or faith, not verifiable

You stated that in 'this case' we didn't know, we 'i'm assuming is humanity'?
Then you said we're ignorant of the truth and then continued on to state that claiming that there is a god, was a matter of Either we know what is fact or we do not. In this case, we do not know. Therefore, be definition, we are ignorant of the truth.

For one to claim there is a god is a matter of belief and/or faith, not verifiable truth.

a reply to: JoshuaCox

The left is always the peace party..

What? Really? LBJ took us into Vietnam. FDR took us into WW2. KKK creators. Obama droned a US teenager.

Wanna rethink that statement?

a reply to: JoshuaCox

Somehow I get some sort of twisted joy that you are putting this much effort in defending McCain.

Bang!

second line

originally posted by: BotheLumberJack
a reply to: enlightenedservant

What is it you're so angry about?

Where's the love?

Reading comprehension not your forte, eh? Just in case you don't know, "LOL" means "laugh/laughing out loud". I ended my post w/that because it's laughably absurd to me that right wingers are now claiming that one of their own most powerful leaders of the last 20 years is actually a progressive. Learning is half the battle, bro.

(pats BotheLumberJack on the shoulder and hands him a gluten free, cacao based cookie and a glass of premium raw water to drink it down)

a reply to: enlightenedservant

Yeah I know what LOL means DUH. To counter your insult = Retardism isn't your forte' is it?

Feels good don't it?

Learning is half the battle, bro.

I wouldn't know. Perhaps if i miraculously grew balls I would.